3241 réponses à ce sujet

[Milady]

And amell if possible, and irving, morrigan, inquisitor, possible hawke and all those other mages who died defending their Circle (That of Ferelden and Kirkwall).

If you think about, every single faction contains some craziness/insanity. Nothing is Black or White

[Master Warder Z_]

And amell if possible, and irving, morrigan, inquisitor, possible hawke and all those other mages who died defending their Circle (That of Ferelden and Kirkwall).

If you think about, every single faction contains some craziness/insanity. Nothing is Black or White

 

It appears mages have a monopoly.

 

Because numerically speaking?

 

More mages have been "crazy" then those who haven't.

[The Baconer]

He isn't wrong.

 

At the time, no. But times have changed, the former Seekers that are currently leading the Templars in rebellion took the chance to prove themselves, and they have failed. They have the "authority" to submit and be tried, or be hanged like common criminals should they continue to act in treason. They no longer have the legitimacy or authority to negotiate with me or anyone.

[LobselVith8]

And amell if possible, and irving, morrigan, inquisitor, possible hawke and all those other mages who died defending their Circle (That of Ferelden and Kirkwall).

If you think about, every single faction contains some craziness/insanity. Nothing is Black or White

 

There are certainly bad apples in every group. There were mages who crossed the line in Kirkwall, and there were templars who crossed the line in Kirkwall. One of the biggest problems with Dragon Age II was that the nuanced examination of the dichotomy between mages and templars took a step back to give us flat, uninteresting villains with little to no depth. I'm hoping the developers learned from their mistake, and are going to actually provide a myriad of perspectives for the different mages and templars in each side of the war.

 

Let's hope that we get three-dimensional characters in both factions this time around, rather than the one-dimensional Arkham Asylum mages or the sadists and rapists of the Templar Order.

[raging_monkey]

It appears mages have a monopoly. Because numerically speaking? More mages have been "crazy" then those who haven't.

only ones we've seen non-magi can be crazy too (opinion)and while disagree logic dictates your right on this a bit

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Why would they disobey the order of a commanding officer unless they, too, have faltered in their duties? To do so would only risk a liquidation of a larger-scale. If they seek to incriminate themselves in such a manner, and then are excised, then clearly the system is working as intended.

It's only incriminating if the Seeker had arrived there in the first place. There's nothing incriminating about not knowing there was supposed to be one there.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

It appears mages have a monopoly.

 

Because numerically speaking?

 

More mages have been "crazy" then those who haven't.

That's not what a monopoly is.

[raging_monkey]

There are certainly bad apples in every group. There were mages who crossed the line in Kirkwall, and there were templars who crossed the line in Kirkwall. One of the biggest problems with Dragon Age II was that the nuanced examination of the dichotomy between mages and templars took a step back to give us flat, uninteresting villains with little to no depth. I'm hoping the developers learned from their mistake, and are going to actually provide a myriad of perspectives for the different mages and templars in each side of the war. Let's hope that we get three-dimensional characters in both factions this time around, rather than the one-dimensional Arkham Asylum mages or the sadists and rapists of the Templar Order.

even if they did we would(most) would still feel the same.

[The Baconer]

It's only incriminating if the Seeker had arrived there in the first place. There's nothing incriminating about not knowing there was supposed to be one there.

 

What?

[LobselVith8]

even if they did we would(most) would still feel the same.

 

There would be a drop in facepalms over nonsensical moments and ludicrous characterizations, however.

[raging_monkey]

There would be a drop in facepalms over nonsensical moments and ludicrous characterizations, however.

idk the mages could be solidfied as villians, dalish as wanderin bandits templars as both villians and heroes. Its all possible

[Mistic]

He isn't wrong.

 

I agree, but only if he (and his supporters) accept all the consequences of that decision. Because if you think that "placing the power much more firmly where it belonged" means "my side", you are committing the typical, yet incredibly dangerous Original Position Fallacy.

 

Because we know to whom the power belonged.

 

Paraphrasing Asimov's famous dialogue:

Templar 1: "How pleasant it would be if only we lived a thousand years ago when it was easy to punish the evil-doers as the Inquisition decided."

Templar 2: "It would be horrible... There's a new Inquisition now. And we aren't them."

 

Be careful about what you wish for.

[Master Warder Z_]

At the time, no. But times have changed

 

Indeed the Order can likely become even more powerful then even Lambert dreamed.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

What?

Basically what I'm saying is that if the Templars want to protect their friend without dying over it, all they have to do is make the Seeker disappear. Hence why you want there to be a large number of Seekers in any case where even one is called for.

[Master Warder Z_]

That's not what a monopoly is.

 

Not if you hang by every letter of the definition no, but i noticed you didn't argue about the numeric majority bit of the post

[raging_monkey]

Indeed the Order can likely become even more powerful then even Lambert dreamed.

too much power can corrupt my friend mage or non-mage.
Hell is paved with good intentions and i sympathize with you but it needs to be even

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Not if you hang by every letter of the definition no, but i noticed you didn't argue about the numeric majority bit of the post

Because it's hard to deny that mage characters tend to be bugnuts insane.

[The Baconer]

Indeed the Order can likely become even more powerful then even Lambert dreamed.

 

Considering how impressed everyone is with them, that's beginning to sound like a fantasy not unlike "Independent Dalish Kingdom" or "Mage Autonomy".

[MisterJB]

No, killing armed and armored soldiers in self-defense isn't genocide (particularly in the context of defending mages who would otherwise be killed, as Xil argued), and neither is defeating and dismantling the Templar Order in the Mage-Templar War.

That would be religious and cultural genocide.

[Master Warder Z_]

Considering how impressed everyone is with them, that's beginning to sound like a fantasy not unlike "Independent Dalish Kingdom" or "Mage Autonomy".

 

Really?

 

You think the odds of them winning their war to get a better with the chantry is up there with the Dalish getting a place to park the Winnebago?

[MisterJB]

Every self-contained society (such as a nation) ultimately polices itself. If mages are to be members of a community of mages and non-mages, they should be policed by the same institution as everyone else (add a special task force to it for the extra dangers of magic). The most important aspect is that they should be as impartial as possible in the philosophical debate about the merits and dangers of magic. Having the Chantry involved is not acceptable.

Normals and mages do not have any cultural or ethnic ties connecting each other; since, even in societies where mages are freed, they always form their own social class separate from their normal peers. Thus, thankfully, there aren't any plans for mages to integrate into communities. Even the mages themselves don't have any plans or demands beyond "freedom and autonomy" much less on how to make this should platable to the rest of society.

 

The philosophical debate about magic is irrelevant to the question of policing. Impartiality is not what is needed; if at all possible; but a vetted interest in performing their jobs wells. The secret to effective policing is either that the police genuinely cares about the population they protect or that they simply have an interest in seeing it protected.

This is not guaranteeable if we have a distinct cultural or ethnic group policing another. Therefore, said police should itself be, at least partially, policed by the very people they're policing.

Thus, there should be a degree of involvement of the mages in policing themselves but only to a degree. Which already exists, of course. For instance, a mage can't be made Tranquil without the approval of the First Enchanter.

 

Ultimately, the Chantry is as qualified as any other group to represent the normal people in this agreement. At least they have their best interests in mind.

 

 

[wcholcombe]

Really?

 

You think the odds of them winning their war to get a better with the chantry is up there with the Dalish getting a place to park the Winnebago?

I think both are equally unlikely.  Though I could maybe see the dalish settling in some remote area and being left alone and forgotten about.

 

The templars and mages are both decimated of leadership and splintered following the big boom, neither is long for their rebellion.

[Willowhugger]

http://forum.bioware...templars-essay/

 

The first part of my essay is up in this thread.

 

I hope you guys enjoy.

[The Baconer]

Basically what I'm saying is that if the Templars want to protect their friend without dying over it, all they have to do is make the Seeker disappear.

 

I would expect a Seeker to have the presence of mind to assess if they will need backup before making an arrest, and if direct confrontation would even be necessary. Of course, if a situation like this were to occur (a Seeker being sent to conduct an investigation, and then disappearing), it will end poorly for the Circle in which it happened.

[The Baconer]

Really?

 

You think the odds of them winning their war to get a better with the chantry is up there with the Dalish getting a place to park the Winnebago?

 

Do I think them winning their war eventually is out of the question? Not at all. Now, to expect anyone to say "Good job, here's more power" by this point is complete fantasy, yes.