3241 réponses à ce sujet

[Hellion Rex]

She was already losing her mind by time act 3 starts even a person mentioned she was talking to someone when she was alone in her room.

Probably talking to that damned sword.

[TTTX]

I don't need to establish when he learned blood magic or how much blood magic he knew... my point is that blood mages were in the Cirlce and that he was one of them.  Not only that, even the overwhelmingly strict nature of the Kirkwall Circle wasn't enough to keep apostates from pouring out like a bucket of water with a hole in the bottom.  There was even a large "Underground Railroad" that Anders, and potentially Hawke, worked with... the Circle was corrupted from top to bottom.  We have numerous examples of apostates who left the Circle being positively identified as blood mages or demonologists mere days after their escape.  Believe what you will about the complexity of magic, but power on the level of Huon and Jake the Black takes time to develop.  Orsino was even a blood mage and had access to knowledge about what was obviously an advanced blood magic ritual.  Again I ask, how much evidence do you need?

We don't get to see or interact much with that underground rail road we only fight the bad mages that escape the circle, we don't get interact with the other mages that escape the circle.

[TK514]

With that red lyrium idol messing with her mind, I doubt it.

 

She was already losing her mind by time act 3 starts even a person mentioned she was talking to someone when she was alone in her room.

 

Fair enough, I'll clarify that she'd have been untouchable for calling the Annulment.

[dragonflight288]

Raising the dead is actually a school of spirit spell, called Animate Dead, and the School of Spirit deals in the Fade and summoning Fade Spirits. This is all in the codex for the school of spirit. It also says in the codex that it's commonly mistaken for blood magic.

 

Decimus was using blood magic, but chances were he was using blood magic to power the spell from the school of spirit, and Alain didn't know the difference. 

[TTTX]

true but we do know that the total mages that rebelled was only a couple of hundred, and that is from all the circles outside of tevinter.

I expected that number to be higher.

[wcholcombe]

I expected that number to be higher.

Why? Magic is rare and it only affects a small number of the population.

 

That has been in the lore from the beginning. Magic or all kinds-weapons,items, mages is rare in DA, it isn't a magic rich world.

 

For all the focus that the mages and their treatment gets, they are less then .01% of the population probably.

[TTTX]

Raising the dead is actually a school of spirit spell, called Animate Dead, and the School of Spirit deals in the Fade and summoning Fade Spirits. This is all in the codex for the school of spirit. It also says in the codex that it's commonly mistaken for blood magic.

 

Decimus was using blood magic, but chances were he was using blood magic to power the spell from the school of spirit, and Alain didn't know the difference. 

There is even a mage class called necromancer and guess what they can do?

 

Raise the dead and it's not an outlawed magic.

[TTTX]

Fair enough, I'll clarify that she'd have been untouchable for calling the Annulment.

maybe, we'll never know since she got turned into a statue.

[dragonflight288]

There is even a mage class called necromancer and guess what they can do?

 

Raise the dead and it's not an outlawed magic.

 

Because it's not blood magic. 

[Icy Magebane]

We don't get to see or interact much with that underground rail road we only fight the bad mages that escape the circle, we don't get interact with the other mages that escape the circle.

Regardless of the apostate's intentions, fleeing the Cirlce is a crime.  Each crime committed adds to the overall guilt of the Circle, and that includes organized escape attempts.

[Inprea]

I don't need to establish when he learned blood magic or how much blood magic he knew... my point is that blood mages were in the Cirlce and that he was one of them.  Not only that, even the overwhelmingly strict nature of the Kirkwall Circle wasn't enough to keep apostates from pouring out like a bucket of water with a hole in the bottom.  There was even a large "Underground Railroad" that Anders, and potentially Hawke, worked with... the Circle was corrupted from top to bottom.  We have numerous examples of apostates who left the Circle being positively identified as blood mages or demonologists mere days after their escape.  Believe what you will about the complexity of magic, but power on the level of Huon and Jake the Black takes time to develop.  Even Orsino was a blood mage and had access to knowledge about what was obviously an advanced blood magic ritual.  Again I ask, how much evidence do you need?

 

Is there any evidence showing that Jake the Black is from the Kirkwall circle? Not every mage in that region comes from it after all. You say the circle was corrupt but I wonder how many of those mages were pushed to that point by templars like Alric. You may look at Evelina and see a mage that gave into demons but I look at her and wonder what the templars did to break her.

 

This is a young mage who while fleeing the blight took on three orphans and got them to safety. She devoted several years of her life to taking care of them and was willing to hand herself over to the circle to better their condition. Rather then help the orphans though Meredith was happy to leave them to starve. She then escapes and goes back to them. Quite frankly it wouldn't surprise me if the templars threatened to or intended to kill the children and that was what made her angry enough to turn into a demon. After all we see Meredith's death squads going around threatening and apparently killing civilians.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Raising the dead is actually a school of spirit spell, called Animate Dead, and the School of Spirit deals in the Fade and summoning Fade Spirits. This is all in the codex for the school of spirit. It also says in the codex that it's commonly mistaken for blood magic.

 

Decimus was using blood magic, but chances were he was using blood magic to power the spell from the school of spirit, and Alain didn't know the difference. 

Not at all. Animate Dead is very different from what Decimus did. Animate Dead is NOT undead. It is simply a skeleton being manipulated by the will of the mage. A marionette if you will. What Decimus did was literally race the undead, by forcing spirits into the surrounding corpses.

[raging_monkey]

Because it's not blood magic. 

still considered to be "inappropriate" outside of nevarra

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Not at all. Animate Dead is very different from what Decimus did. Animate Dead is NOT undead. It is simply a skeleton being manipulated by the will of the amge. A marionette if you will. What Decimus did was literally race the undead, by forcing spirits into the surrounding corpses.

I interpreted it as temporarily drawing a relatively benign spirit into the corpse, which is not to be confused with Decimus's version which uses demons and thus requires blood magic.

[Icy Magebane]

Is there any evidence showing that Jake the Black is from the Kirkwall circle? 

-snip-

Before I read any further, did you even look at the link I posted?

http://dragonage.wik...i/Bounty_Hunter

Jake the Black is one of the apostates that the Templars want you to help round up because they escaped from the Gallows.

[EmperorSahlertz]

I interpreted it as temporarily drawing a relatively benign spirit into the corpse, which is not to be confused with Decimus's version which uses demons and thus requires blood magic.

There isn't much left to interpretation. We got confirmation that no spirit is involved in the spell Animate Dead. Which is also why a mage cannot cast the spell twice.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

There isn't much left to interpretation. We got confirmation that no spirit is involved in the spell Animate Dead. Which is also why a mage cannot cast the spell twice.

The difficulty of controlling two spirits would also explain that. Could you link to the confirmation?

[TTTX]

Regardless of the apostate's intentions, fleeing the Cirlce is a crime.  Each crime committed adds to the overall guilt of the Circle, and that includes organized escape attempts.

To true, although by the sound of it that circle wasn't nice to live in compared to the rest.

 

If I was a mage in Kirwall I would apply to transfer to another circle and I would be scared to sleep at night with a templar like sir Alrik walking around.

[dragonflight288]

There isn't much left to interpretation. We got confirmation that no spirit is involved in the spell Animate Dead. Which is also why a mage cannot cast the spell twice.

 

But the school of spirit codex specifically says they cover "summoning spirits" as part of their school. They may not be summoning a spirit to animate the dead to fight for them, but summoning spirits is still part of the school.

 

I mean, in the quest Summoning Science, we are literally summoning Fade spirits. One dies immediately, one goes on to hunt caravans, and the other is a bear that attacks you. Yet these are commonly accepted practices in the Ferelden Circle.

[Lulupab]

true but we do know that the total mages that rebelled was only a couple of hundred, and that is from all the circles outside of tevinter.

Asudner specifically mentions thousands of mages rally at adnoral's reach, and possibly more are on the way.

[dragonflight288]

To true, although by the sound of it that circle wasn't nice to live in compared to the rest.

 

If I was a mage in Kirwall I would apply to transfer to another circle and I would be scared to sleep at night with a templar like sir Alrik walking around.

 

But mages can't really request a transfer. All they can do is escape, travel to another of the Circles, turn themself in and hope the templar don't kill them for escaping the other circle in the first place. 

 

Or at least, that's the impression I get. 

[wcholcombe]

If we are going to discuss DA2 and Kirkwall, I would like to interject for those who haven't read ME, that the marches are seen to have much stricter and harsher treatment of mages then anywhere else in Thedas. Even the Orlesians find them to be harsh.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The difficulty of controlling two spirits would also explain that. Could you link to the confirmation?

"The caster summons a skeleton minion from the corpse of a fallen enemy to fight alongside the party for a short time, although, as a puppet of the caster, it will not use any talents or spells without specific instruction." This is the description of the spell. No mention of a spirit, but rather the explanation that it is a puppet of the caster.

There also was some discussion about this spell on the old forum, but i honestly can't be bothered with digging through that cesspit.

[raging_monkey]

But mages can't really request a transfer. All they can do is escape, travel to another of the Circles, turn themself in and hope the templar don't kill them for escaping the other circle in the first place.  Or at least, that's the impression I get.

karl was a transer from fereldan. And varric BSs karras that he's an enchanter, which implies so form of change in venue as long as your proven loyal to the circle

[Hellion Rex]

"The caster summons a skeleton minion from the corpse of a fallen enemy to fight alongside the party for a short time, although, as a puppet of the caster, it will not use any talents or spells without specific instruction." This is the description of the spell. No mention of a spirit, but rather the explanation that it is a puppet of the caster.

There also was some discussion about this spell on the old forum, but i honestly can't be bothered with digging through that cesspit.

It reads to me like the caster is simply "animating" the bones with their own power, no spirit is being forced in to the corpse.