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[raging_monkey]

I disagree.You imagine yourself fighting a demon, therefore you're fighting a demon.It's not nearly as cerebral as all that.

think its a bit more complecated

[Br3admax]

I disagree.

You imagine yourself fighting a demon, therefore you're fighting a demon.

It's not nearly as cerebral as all that.

No. It doesn't work that way at all. In the real world you are limited by such things as how much mana you store, fatigue, etc. In the Fade, a lot of those things are not in place. Magic itself comes from the Fade, most believe in the form of lyrium, it's a whole new ballpark. 

[dragonflight288]

think its a bit more complecated

 

Mouse: You fight the demon, you resist it. If it kills you, it possess you and you become an abomination.

Warden: Since combat is a matter of will, so will itself is combat?

Mouse: I...suppose the reverse is possibly true. That's a very complicated idea. I'd stick with killing it. 

[The Baconer]

Didn't Wynne chokeslam a demon in the Fade?

[Willowhugger]

No. It doesn't work that way at all. In the real world you are limited by such things as how much mana you store, fatigue, etc. In the Fade, a lot of those things are not in place. Magic itself comes from the Fade, most believe in the form of lyrium, it's a whole new ballpark. 

 

Except it's shaped by human experiences and memories. It's weirder but, for the most part, if you die in the Fade you die.

[dragonflight288]

No. It doesn't work that way at all. In the real world you are limited by such things as how much mana you store, fatigue, etc. In the Fade, a lot of those things are not in place. Magic itself comes from the Fade, most believe in the form of lyrium, it's a whole new ballpark. 

 

In the Fade, you are bound by what you believe. You believe you look like the way you do, then you look that way in the Fade. You'd have to let go of everything you knew and will yourself to believe something else to will it in the Fade. 

 

Most people won't 'will' themselves to be bigger, better and stronger in the Fade because they can't, while the demons and spirits who rule there are also using their powers on you, trying to weaken your will and make you easier to possess. Sloth does this in Broken Circle when you're dragged to the Fade. Feynriel's nightmare has a Desire Demon and a Pride Demon pretty much mind control everyone in your party save Anders, who is already possessed and is being controlled by another Fade Spirit during that sequence. 

[raging_monkey]

Mouse: You fight the demon, you resist it. If it kills you, it possess you and you become an abomination.Warden: Since combat is a matter of will, so will itself is combat?Mouse: I...suppose the reverse is possibly true. That's a very complicated idea. I'd stick with killing it.

didnt get that dialogue and i was inquesitive

[dragonflight288]

didnt get that dialogue and i was inquesitive

 

You have to talk to Mouse again after meeting him.

[raging_monkey]

A

You have to talk to Mouse again after meeting him.

i usually ignore him dislike his voice actor

[Master Warder Z_]

Didn't Wynne chokeslam a demon in the Fade?

 

Didn't Lambert run a knight captain through in four exchanges of the sword?

[The Baconer]

Didn't Lambert run a knight captain through in four exchanges of the sword?

 

Was it four, or less? I cannot remember the exact number. Feats of remarkable swordsmanship are becoming rather commonplace in the books.

 

Now, "Didn't Lambert incapacitate a knight captain with a Spinning Pile Driver?" that would be something I'd commit to memory, for my entire life.

[Hellion Rex]

Didn't Wynne chokeslam a demon in the Fade?

She kicked its ass lol. Faith is a powerhouse.

[Master Warder Z_]

Was it four, or less? I cannot remember the exact number. Feats of remarkable swordsmanship are becoming rather commonplace in the books.

 

Now, "Didn't Lambert incapacitate a knight captain with a Spinning Pile Driver?" that would be something I'd commit to memory, for my entire life.

 

A spinning what now...Bleh wrestling.

 

And Mastery of the blade is still something of a rarity, you have a lot of folks in Thedas that are moderately skilled with it, but only a few that i'd rate as "masters" of it.

 

Namely i'd rate Gaspard or Chevins as extremely skilled, their technique is superb and their form is perfect.

 

Lambert is another one'd id rate as exceptionally skilled, and to be honest i don't recall how quickly he gutted that traitor, but it was a pretty rapid exchange.

 

The series of events went basically as such.

 

1. Both parties drew their swords and assume stances

 

2. Their blades meet for the first time and they circle, keeping stance and footing

 

3. Lambert attacks again and pressing his strength advantage, The traitor recoils

 

4. He follows up and delivers the mortal blow

[Br3admax]

In the Fade, you are bound by what you believe. You believe you look like the way you do, then you look that way in the Fade. You'd have to let go of everything you knew and will yourself to believe something else to will it in the Fade. 

 

That really didn't have anything to do with my point that  battle in the Fade is a battle of wills. The Spirit of Valor says it, I'm going to go with it. Mouse says it's not about simply killing, I'm going to go with Mouse. Your opinions matter so little to me, especially on a subject like magic. They aren't going to override character statements. 

[The Baconer]

A spinning what now...Bleh wrestling.

 

Vidjagame wrestling, sure. An Izuna Drop would also suffice.

[Willowhugger]

That really didn't have anything to do with my point that  battle in the Fade is a battle of wills. The Spirit of Valor says it, I'm going to go with it. Mouse says it's not about simply killing, I'm going to go with Mouse. Your opinions matter so little to me, especially on a subject like magic. They aren't going to override character statements. 

 

Mouse also says a battle of wills is like fighting.

[Br3admax]

Mouse also says a battle of wills is like fighting.

It's like fighting minds. It doesn't require skill in physical combat, as a fight outside the Fade would. 

[dragonflight288]

It's like fighting minds. It doesn't require skill in physical combat, as a fight outside the Fade would. 

 

But your mind in the Fade naturally interprets resisting them as fighting. That's the point Mouse makes when you talk to him again. You can question if since fighting in the fade is a matter of will so that would also mean will itself is combat, which is the point you're making.

 

Mouse admits that that may be possible, but it's a very complicated idea, it's much easier to simply kill the demon. 

[Br3admax]

But your mind in the Fade naturally interprets resisting them as fighting. That's the point Mouse makes when you talk to him again. You can question if since fighting in the fade is a matter of will so that would also mean will itself is combat, which is the point you're making.

 

Mouse admits that that may be possible, but it's a very complicated idea, it's much easier to simply kill the demon. 

Power in the Fade does not equal power outside of the Fade. there's no debating that. You can will anything to happen in the Fade. You make weapons, kill apparitions, transform,etc. Outside the Fade, that requires much more effort. Outside the Fade, there are more limits.  

[Cainhurst Crow]

Was it four, or less? I cannot remember the exact number. Feats of remarkable swordsmanship are becoming rather commonplace in the books.
 
Now, "Didn't Lambert incapacitate a knight captain with a Spinning Pile Driver?" that would be something I'd commit to memory, for my entire life.

Unless lambert did the people's elbow as a finisher all I can do is yawn at his not-jedi tier skills.

[dragonflight288]

Power in the Fade does not equal power outside of the Fade. there's no debating that. You can will anything to happen in the Fade. You make weapons, kill apparitions, transform,etc. Outside the Fade, that requires much more effort. Outside the Fade, there are more limits.  

 

And inside the Fade, you have just as many limits as you subconsciously put upon yourself. If you cannot believe in something, it will not be. Not to mention you'll have demonic powers working against you, eroding your will, trying to trick you through illusions, and if the demon is powerful enough, outright mind control. 

 

If you do not have the will to, well, will weapons into being, you simply cannot do so in the Fade. My mage had to take weapons willed into being by a spirit of Valor during the Harrowing, he didn't will a staff into being on his own. He was not taught how to become a bear because, as Sloth said, I was too attached to my form. 

 

It's not as simple as you claim. Possible, most certainly, but far from simple. 

[EmissaryofLies]

Not even 200 pages? Pathetic. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

And inside the Fade, you have just as many limits as you subconsciously put upon yourself. If you cannot believe in something, it will not be. Not to mention you'll have demonic powers working against you, eroding your will, trying to trick you through illusions, and if the demon is powerful enough, outright mind control. 

 

If you do not have the will to, well, will weapons into being, you simply cannot do so in the Fade. My mage had to take weapons willed into being by a spirit of Valor during the Harrowing, he didn't will a staff into being on his own. He was not taught how to become a bear because, as Sloth said, I was too attached to my form. 

 

It's not as simple as you claim. Possible, most certainly, but far from simple. 

Yes, but these limitations are exactly what mages are taught to overcome. Being able to fight in the Fade is NOT an indication of being able to fight in the waking world. Mages are taught and expected to be able to navigate the Fade, which means they are taught to defend themselves while there. That doesn't mean that fighting in the Fade is simple, I don't think anyone is saying that, it means that fighitng in the Fade, has nothing to do with fighting in the waking world.

[Lulupab]

She kicked its ass lol. Faith is a powerhouse.

Faith spirits are equal in power and exact opposition of pride demons (to believe in something other than yourself aka opposite of pride). The connection is proved as David Gaider said if a faith spirits gets corrupted it becomes pride. As a spirit healer Wynne was quite powerful already and add faith to it the pride demon had no chance in hell.

To be honest I'm interested in Hope spirits, they are even stronger than faith spirits and are strongest entity of the fade and for the most part have decided to completely ignore mortals and their affairs.

inb4 Cole is a spirit of Hope (in case of corruption a demon of Despair)

[MisterJB]

She kicked its ass lol. Faith is a powerhouse.

I wonder what effect it would have on a non-mage like Evangeline.

Super speed, strenght, reflexes, healing?