The strength of the demon I will grant you, since I can't see a rage demon being much good at counterspelling.
Yeah, the majority of rage demons seem to like smashing and immolating as opposed to countering magic. But, hopefully, we can see some upper level demons of rage eventually.
Yeah, the majority of rage demons seem to like smashing and immolating as opposed to countering magic. But, hopefully, we can see some upper level demons of rage eventually.
We have. It wasn't much smarter.
(Actually, is Justice/Vengeance technically a rage demon by the time of DA2? Because his bomb plot, while kinda questionable, is far and away smarter than anything most rage demons could come up with. And one of the first things he does in Awakening is cast a spell on the Warden-Commander's weapons to make them able to close Fade Tears.)
We have. It wasn't much smarter.
(Actually, is Justice/Vengeance technically a rage demon by the time of DA2? Because his bomb plot, while kinda questionable, is far and away smarter than anything most rage demons could come up with. And one of the first things he does in Awakening is cast a spell on the Warden-Commander's weapons to make them able to close Fade Tears.)
Ummmm, I guess you could consider Vengeance to be a facet of Rage. And Vengeance is certainly an upper level spirit. So I suppose you could say we have seen a smart Rage demon.
"Could" is most certainly not the operative word in that sentence. It is past tence meaning that it DID happen and definitive (not figurative), meaning that the fact that they did counter his blood magic is the important part. Meaning "counter" is the operative word.
"Blood magic comes from demons, they could counter every bit of lore I knew. But the darkspawn taint, that is alien to them. And it has power."
He says that they could counter, not that they "would" or that they "did". "Could" denotes ability - not action. But I won't argue these semantics further. Arguing grammar - that's not interesting to me, and blood magic is useful far beyond interaction with demons.
"Blood magic comes from demons, they could counter every bit of lore I knew. But the darkspawn taint, that is alien to them. And it has power."
He says that they could counter, not that they "would" or that they "did".
I think it's implied that they did by the fact that there are demons in the Tower.
aside from the joining and phylacteries i dont see alot of positive usage of blood magic and im generally pro mage"Blood magic comes from demons, they could counter every bit of lore I knew. But the darkspawn taint, that is alien to them. And it has power." He says that they could counter, not that they "would" or that they "did". "Could" here denotes ability - not action. But I won't argue these semantics further. Arguing grammar - that's not interesting to me, and blood magic is useful far beyond interaction with demons.
I think it's implied that they did by the fact that there are demons in the Tower.
Specifically, I think he meant to aim that line at Sophia's demon (a pride demon?), since it seems to be running the show in that fortress.
Specifically, I think he meant to aim that line at Sophia's demon (a pride demon?), since it seems to be running the show in that fortress.
There are some Desire Demons in the Tower. Those are pretty scary too.
There are some Desire Demons in the Tower. Those are pretty scary too.
I suppose. That being said, I'm a tad more wary of pride than desire, though both require care to defeat.
I suppose. That being said, I'm a tad more wary of pride than desire, though both require care to defeat.
In terms of power level Pride demons is stronger then Desire demons.
thene where do fear and terror rank .In terms of power level Pride demons is stronger then Desire demons.
thene where do fear and terror rank .
No idea.
"Blood magic comes from demons, they could counter every bit of lore I knew. But the darkspawn taint, that is alien to them. And it has power."
He says that they could counter, not that they "would" or that they "did". "Could" here denotes ability - not action. But I won't argue these semantics further. Arguing grammar - that's not interesting to me, and blood magic is useful far beyond interaction with demons.
True, it can be very useful; Grey Warden mages use it against the darkspawn, Finn used it to locate the Eluvian in the Dragonbone Wastes, and Merrill was able to use it to successfully cleanse a shard (from the Elven Ruins Eluvian) of the taint. There are still many mysteries surrounding blood magic, including it's inception (given the conflicting stories of it's origin). Hopefully, it'll be explored more in the future.
aside from the joining and phylacteries i dont see alot of positive usage of blood magic and im generally pro mage
All spells can be made more powerful through blood - the comics show that dragon blood is the best for spell casting, and stronger spells increase the practical applications of magic. A mage of unimpressive casting ability can become more formidable through blood magic and, again, strong magic is a boon in combat and in everyday application. There are spells that can only be worked with blood magic - Avernus was able to extend his life with blood magic, for example. Blood magic spells are potent and the templars have no counter to blood magic - that favors mages in the war. I know that Xil has argued mind control could stop crimes, harm done to others, etc. And Finn used it in Witch Hunt and Merrill used it in DA2. For starters. Oh, its also a more convenient fuel source than lyrium.
scrying just has blood as a component doesnt really power it its a grey area and merril as much i loved her she was a bit stupid and was as pro-templars say a ticking time that just got diffusedTrue, it can be very useful; Grey Warden mages use it against the darkspawn, Finn used it to locate the Eluvian in the Dragonbone Wastes, and Merrill was able to use it to successfully cleanse a shard (from the Elven Ruins Eluvian) of the taint. There are still many mysteries surrounding blood magic, including it's inception (given the conflicting stories of it's origin). Hopefully, it'll be explored more in the future.
True, it can be very useful; Grey Warden mages use it against the darkspawn, Finn used it to locate the Eluvian in the Dragonbone Wastes, and Merrill was able to use it to successfully cleanse a shard (from the Elven Ruins Eluvian) of the taint. There are still many mysteries surrounding blood magic, including it's inception (given the conflicting stories of it's origin). Hopefully, it'll be explored more in the future.
I'm not so sure about Finn, but Grey Wardens don't all use blood magic, they are simply allowed to do so by Chantry law. There is no inherent benefit to using blood magic rather than lyrium-based magic against Darkspawn, it just makes the fighting a little easier and makes it so that they don't have to pay for lyrium potions. Also, Merrill even says that she could have used lyrium to purify the Eluvian but she didn't have enough (being an apostate... I'm sure a Circle mage would have been able to legally acquire the necessary lyrium after getting approval from the First Enchanter). Therefore she turned to blood magic as an alternative. Blood magic was never specifically needed to do anything in that case either.
edit: Let's also not forget what happened when the Grey Warden Avernus decided to use blood magic to prolong his life and performed horrifying experiments on his fellow Wardens "for the greater good." Just because a Grey Warden uses blood magic doesn't mean that anything positive will come of it... it's actually been show that Grey Wardens are fairly amoral and thus should not be used as positive examples of mages. Unless of course we have proof of a blood magic using Grey Warden who did something unique and good with that power? Excluding the PC of course...
edit: damn that was a lot of typos... o.O
scrying just has blood as a component doesnt really power it its a grey area
That excuse didn't really hold up much considering how he didn't want the templars to know.
merril as much i loved her she was a bit stupid and was as pro-templars say a ticking time that just got diffused
Merrill wasn't stupid; she dealt with culture shock in human society (which was completely foreign to her). You might disagree with her, but that doesn't make her stupid.
theres a reason why its generally banned either due to moral reasons or other dangers wardens play by different rules but non warden magi have to be a exampleAll spells can be made more powerful through blood - the comics show that dragon blood is the best for spell casting, and stronger spells increase the practical applications of magic. A mage of unimpressive casting ability can become more formidable through blood magic and, again, strong magic is a boon in combat and in everyday application. There are spells that can only be worked with blood magic - Avernus was able to extend his life with blood magic, for example. Blood magic spells are potent and the templars have no counter to blood magic - that favors mages in the war. I know that Xil has argued mind control could stop crimes, harm done to others, etc. And Finn used it in Witch Hunt and Merrill used it in DA2. For starters.
I'm not so sure about Finn, but Grey Wardens don't all use blood magic, they are simply allowed to do so by Chantry law.
I never claimed every single one used blood magic, but Duncan notes that there are Grey Warden mages who use blood magic to deal with the darkspawn, so my point stands.
There is nothing inherent benefit to using blood magic rather than lyrium-based magic against Darkspawn, it just makes the fighting a little easier and makes it so that they don't have to pay for lyrium potions. Also, Merrill even says that she could have used lyrium to purify the Eluvian but she didn't have enough (being an apostate... I'm sure a Circle mage would have been able to legally acquire the necessary lyrium after getting approval from the First Enchanter). Therefore she turned to blood magic as an alternative. Blood magic was never specifically needed to do anything in that case either.
You're missing my point that blood magic has useful applications.
In terms of power level Pride demons is stronger then Desire demons.
On the basic power levels, yes. But Gaider has said that it also depends on the complexity of the psychic territory that a certain demon encompasses. For example, a demon of retribution (rage) could be much more powerful than a demon of simple lust (desire).
I never claimed every single one used blood magic, but Duncan notes that there are Grey Warden mages who use blood magic to deal with the darkspawn, so my point stands.
Just because they use it doesn't mean that they need to use it. There is no intrinsic advantage of using blood rather than lyrium when fighting darkspawn... it's a useful backup plan, can save money, and will make them more independent from the dwarves and Chantry, but that's pretty much where the advantages end...
You're missing my point that blood magic has useful applications.
No, I understand your point. I am saying that blood magic is not needed in these cases, in spite of the fact that it can be used as a substitute for lyrium. Blood magic is an alternative method of spellcasting, but one that carries with it a greater risk for negative side effects and consequences. Therefore I cannot see a logical reason why it should be legal. We already have lyrium. That should be more than enough unless a mage's goal is fighting Templars, controlling minds, sundering the Veil, or summoning demons...
No, I understand your point. I am saying that blood magic is not needed in these cases, in spite of the fact that it can be used as a substitute for lyrium. Blood magic is an alternative method of spellcasting, but one that carries with it a greater risk for negative side effects and consequences. Therefore I cannot see a logical reason why it should be legal. We already have lyrium. That should be more than enough unless a mage's goal is fighting Templars, controlling minds, sundering the Veil, or summoning demons...
I have no interest in debating your opinion on which school of magic is preferable, and your opinion has nothing to do with the simple fact that blood magic has useful applications.
No, I understand your point. I am saying that blood magic is not needed in these cases, in spite of the fact that it can be used as a substitute for lyrium. Blood magic is an alternative method of spellcasting, but one that carries with it a greater risk for negative side effects and consequences. Therefore I cannot see a logical reason why it should be legal. We already have lyrium. That should be more than enough unless a mage's goal is fighting Templars, controlling minds, sundering the Veil, or summoning demons...
Lyrium is really rare, and the Chantry controls the lyrium trade with the dwarves. And he dwarves are the only ones alive who can safely mine it, and they only sell a small portion to the surface that they don't use themselves.
Merrill says she would've used lyrium to cleanse the shard had she had buckets of it, but she didn't and couldn't get access to it.
This shows that while lyrium is most certainly capable of the job, actually getting it for magic rituals or amplifying spells is another thing entirely.
even the antomical study of it is frowned(idk if completely banned) its a slippery road does it give equal chance against templars but you get a higher chancer of possessionNo, I understand your point. I am saying that blood magic is not needed in these cases, in spite of the fact that it can be used as a substitute for lyrium. Blood magic is an alternative method of spellcasting, but one that carries with it a greater risk for negative side effects and consequences. Therefore I cannot see a logical reason why it should be legal. We already have lyrium. That should be more than enough unless a mage's goal is fighting Templars, controlling minds, sundering the Veil, or summoning demons...
I have no interest in debating your opinion on which school of magic is preferable, and your opinion has nothing to do with the simple fact that blood magic has useful applications.
Ok.
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