3241 réponses à ce sujet

[lil yonce]

Tbh, I get the feeling that I'm not even arguing the same scenario as the people in this conversation... Lyrium is readily available to Circle mages so long as they fill out the right forms, but that's not what we're discussing is it?  We're talking about apostates using blood magic out in the wilderness or in cities so that they don't have to deal with the dwarves or Chantry.  From that perspective, yes I agree that it's far more practical... but in the case of Circle mages, I don't see the need to be casting that many spells in the first place.  *shrugs*  If the conversation is going to focus on apostates doing what it takes to survive, I guess I can't really disagree... they are already in violation of the law, so what is one more?

Blood magic is always stronger. IIRC, Titus uses a fire spell powered by dragon blood it in the comics to fight qunari. It incinerates them in an instant. If you need power, and you want it quickly or cheaply, its the better choice for any mage.

[Hellion Rex]

Doesn't Lambert use it to dispel rather than counterspelling in Asunder? As for blood boiling, that's still a problem, but that alone is less of a problem than mind control and blood boiling.

Well, I'd say that Cole's invisibility blood magic spell was being continually cast, as the spirit was seen concentrating while blood was running from his nose. So Lambert was able to halt the progress of the spell.

[Hellion Rex]

Orsino was hardly a harvester. He just looked like one. 

He kinda was though...

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Tbh, I get the feeling that I'm not even arguing the same scenario as the people in this conversation... Lyrium is readily available to Circle mages so long as they fill out the right forms, but that's not what we're discussing is it?  We're talking about apostates using blood magic out in the wilderness or in cities so that they don't have to deal with the dwarves or Chantry.  From that perspective, yes I agree that it's far more practical... but in the case of Circle mages, I don't see the need to be casting that many spells in the first place.  *shrugs*  If the conversation is going to focus on apostates doing what it takes to survive, I guess I can't really disagree... they are already in violation of the law, so what is one more?

The Circle only has a limited supply of lyrium. That stuff is seriously expensive. Do you remember when Irving said he was able to send one and only one mage into the Fade with the lyrium available?

[Icy Magebane]

Blood magic is always stronger. IIRC, Titus uses a fire spell powered by dragon blood it in the comics to fight qunari. It incinerates them in an instant. If you need power, and you want it quickly or cheaply, its the better choice for any mage.

IMO that isn't worth the risk of allowing non-apostates to practice it.  With apostates, the rules obviously go out the window, but since lyrium-based spells are powerful on their own, sanctioned mages shouldn't have a problem getting by without blood magic.

[Br3admax]

He kinda was though...

He kinda wasn't. Harvesters were made with some of the finest knowledge dwarven and Tevinter minds ever spawned. Orsino took the writings of a mad man and smashed some corpses together. 

[Icy Magebane]

The Circle only has a limited supply of lyrium. That stuff is seriously expensive. Do you remember when Irving said he was able to send one and only one mage into the Fade with the lyrium available?

That's why I asked how much spellcasting needs to be done in the first place.  Unless we are specifically talking about apostates, which I assume we are at this point, mages don't need to be constantly casting spells while inside the Circle.  Merrill and the Eluvian were brought up earlier... had she been a Circle mage conducting research, I don't see any reason why she wouldn't have been able to requisition a supply of lyrium for her experiments... there is a limited supply, yes, but the Circle isn't so busy that they constantly run low.

[TTTX]

He kinda was though...

Yeah, but the original Harvester was made from a fade spirit and bunch of flesh, Orsino wasn't and was weak compared to the original one.

[Lulupab]

No, there really aren't. 

No it wasn't. The army wasn't even there yet. 

Your definition of army is a little of base, but this really means nothing. We have dragonslayers being taken out by a few people. 

Orsino was hardly a harvester. He just looked like one. 

All 8 of them. Let's go take on an army we were just losing to.

Anders and Velanna in Awaking manage to kill hundreds.

Orsino was as Harvester as one can be.

Not just 8, every single person you helped who could fight was in that fight, Nathaniel Howe, Zevran etc...

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

That's why I asked how much spellcasting needs to be done in the first place.  Unless we are specifically talking about apostates, which I assume we are at this point, mages don't need to be constantly casting spells while inside the Circle.  Merrill and the Eluvian were brought up earlier... had she been a Circle mage conducting research, I don't see any reason why she wouldn't have been able to requisition a supply of lyrium for her experiments... there is a limited supply, yes, but the Circle isn't so busy that they constantly run low.

It depends on the circumstances. Usually the Circle probably has all the lyrium they need, but there are legitimate reasons to need a whole lot of power on short notice. Using blood magic against a demon directly is probably not the wisest idea, but Irving might have stretched the lyrium he used in the ritual to confront Connor's demon farther if the mages doing the ritual had slashed their palms first. And suddenly you might have two or three mages crawling a dungeon meant to be a fair challenge for one.

 

And of course this assumes pre-Mage-Templar-War conditions. As you say, the mages probably don't have the Chantry buying them lyrium anymore.

[Lulupab]

I will say that Evangeline was able to raise an aura/shield to defend against a blast of fire, so it's possible to defend against such spells.

I did say they can reduce the injuries and by that I meant taking less damage than usual but they cannot stop it from hitting them.

[Br3admax]

Anders and Velanna in Awaking manage to kill hundreds

 

In the story? No. 

Orsino was as Harvester as one can be..

Except he wasn't a golem made with dwarven and Tevinter knowledge, so not one at all. 

 

 

Not just 8, every single person you helped who could fight was in that fight, Nathaniel Howe, Zevran etc..

 

10 people is not an army. No matter how you stretch it, Hawke is at the end of their rope, and Cullen lets them leave because he and Hawke are supposed to be friends, per dialogue in Act II. He's not going to attack the Champion of the city for no reason. 

[The Elder King]

I will say that Evangeline was able to raise an aura/shield to defend against a blast of fire, so it's possible to defend against such spells.

Yup. It was interesting to see some templar abilities other then the gameplay ones.

Blood magic is always stronger. IIRC, Titus uses a fire spell powered by dragon blood it in the comics to fight qunari. It incinerates them in an instant. If you need power, and you want it quickly or cheaply, its the better choice for any mage.

I doubt that a mage can do this without dragon blood, though.

Anders and Velanna in Awaking manage to kill hundreds.
Orsino was as Harvester as one can be.
Not just 8, every single person you helped who could fight was in that fight, Nathaniel Howe, Zevran etc...

When it was stated that Anders and Velanna killed hundreds? The epilogue slides?

[Icy Magebane]

It depends on the circumstances. Usually the Circle probably has all the lyrium they need, but there are legitimate reasons to need a whole lot of power on short notice. Using blood magic against a demon directly is probably not the wisest idea, but Irving might have stretched the lyrium he used in the ritual to confront Connor's demon farther if the mages doing the ritual had slashed their palms first. And suddenly you might have two or three mages crawling a dungeon meant to be a fair challenge for one.

No way.  Giving Circle mages access to a type of magic that is extremely challenging for Templars to deal with would defeat the whole purpose of keeping them contained.  You may as well just let them wander around if you're going to give them spells that their overseers' powers are ineffective against...

[KaiserShep]

That's why I asked how much spellcasting needs to be done in the first place.  Unless we are specifically talking about apostates, which I assume we are at this point, mages don't need to be constantly casting spells while inside the Circle.  Merrill and the Eluvian were brought up earlier... had she been a Circle mage conducting research, I don't see any reason why she wouldn't have been able to requisition a supply of lyrium for her experiments... there is a limited supply, yes, but the Circle isn't so busy that they constantly run low.

She could have simply asked my Warden for some lyrium if she was in the Circle. She was a lyrium smuggler for Rogek for a while after all.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

No way.  Giving Circle mages access to a type of magic that is extremely challenging for Templars to deal with would defeat the whole purpose of keeping them contained.  You may as well just let them wander around if you're going to give them spells that their overseers' powers are ineffective against...

So don't give all of them access. Pick the most trusted Loyalists, and allow them access only after years of careful vetting, without telling them that they're being considered so that they don't walk more straightly and narrowly in order to fool you. I'll grant that it's risky, but so is not giving men and women meant to be your trump card access to a Godzilla Threshold option for when they need it.

[raging_monkey]

So don't give all of them access. Pick the most trusted Loyalists, and allow them access only after years of careful vetting, without telling them that they're being considered so that they don't walk more straightly and narrowly in order to fool you.

im pro mage and i see this is dangerous

[Br3admax]

So don't give all of them access. Pick the most trusted Loyalists, and allow them access only after years of careful vetting, without telling them that they're being considered so that they don't walk more straightly and narrowly in order to fool you. I'll grant that it's risky, but so is not giving men and women meant to be your trump card access to a Godzilla Threshold option for when they need it.

Blood magic also invites demonic possession and weakens the Veil more than normal magic. There's really no sane reason to use it. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

Most Templar talents work before or while the spell is being cast. After the cast is complete its over. A templar cannot do anything against a fireball already flying towards him. This is much more true about blood magic, because lyrium can party help with surviving magical injuries too, but the Lyrium is the Templar's blood through injection and drinking therefore if the magic affects the blood itself that's bad news. Once a blood magic spell is cast, such as blood poisoning or mind control then there is nothing to be done about it. It can only be stopped before the cast is complete.

Templars are perfectly capable of resisting spells that has been cast already. If the fireball is already acst for instance, it may physically hit them, but the magical flames won't burn them, if they manage to resist it.

 

Also there is nothing inherently more powerful about Blood Magic spells. Blood Magic can be resisted through the exact same techniques as normal spells. The only difference is that Blood Magic is often more powerful, and therefore requres higher magical defenses.

[Hellion Rex]

So don't give all of them access. Pick the most trusted Loyalists, and allow them access only after years of careful vetting, without telling them that they're being considered so that they don't walk more straightly and narrowly in order to fool you. I'll grant that it's risky, but so is not giving men and women meant to be your trump card access to a Godzilla Threshold option for when they need it.

At the very least, I'd say that we need White Chantry mages to study and research blood magic, cause we need more defenses to be created like the Litany.

[Hellion Rex]

Blood magic also invites demonic possession and weakens the Veil more than normal magic. There's really no sane reason to use it. 

Research in an extremely controlled environment, to at least try to develop more defenses, cause Templars are at a major disadvantage against blood magic.

[Icy Magebane]

So don't give all of them access. Pick the most trusted Loyalists, and allow them access only after years of careful vetting, without telling them that they're being considered so that they don't walk more straightly and narrowly in order to fool you.

Hm... I can kind of see that working.  The First Enchanter has special privileges, after all... I'm still not fully convinced that blood magic is even that useful to begin with, but... hm.  I'd have to think about that for a while.  It sounds like it could work out, but are the risks worth it?  If some young apprentice grew up resentful but realized that playing by the rules could lead to them being selected to learn blood magic, they could pretend to be on the level long enough to get what they want and then pass that knowledge around.  Imagine a small group of friends who decide to do this, so that perhaps in 10-20 years one of them is chosen... I mean, humans are nothing if not cunning, so this could easily backfire.  I have to wonder is it really worth the risk?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Blood magic also invites demonic possession and weakens the Veil more than normal magic. There's really no sane reason to use it. 

Except during the Blight or a Qunari invasion that seems to be going well for them. Those situations can't get much worse.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Except during the Blight or a Qunari invasion that seems to be going well for them. Those situations can't get much worse.

It may just be me... But I don't hear most of Thedas speaking Qunlat.. So SOMEHOW they managed to deal just fine without Blood Magic.

[Icy Magebane]

Research in an extremely controlled environment, to at least try to develop more defenses, cause Templars are at a major disadvantage against blood magic.

That's something I can get behind.