3241 réponses à ce sujet

[raging_monkey]

Gentlemen, ladies, let us treat one another civilly.

this the bsn and a mage v templar debate not gonna happen lol butbi agree

[Master Warder Z_]

This is what happens when you give the mages too much freedom. Things should more calm. Serene. Tranquil.  

 

 Agreed.

[Lulupab]

You mean the what? Dozen or so that stream into the chamber before Harvestino becomes a thing?
 
Less then twenty through out the circle it self?
 
I get game play reasoning and all, but seriously if even if we bump those numbers up a bit to their "logical" numbers, it still leaves a massive host outside.
 
And the PC despite your claims clearly isn't invulnerable given that Loghain's Ser Cauthrien proved quite adamantly that the PC can be swamped by skill and numbers.
 
.-. One Character, PC or no cannot one shot an army in one sitting.
 
Not in this universe anyway, not from what has been presented yet.

Not invulnerable but please. Cory and Harvestino are much higher threat. In fact based on information on Harvester from DAO DLC, Harvestino could easily wipe out whole of Kirkwall. If someone can defeat that monstrosity then it can defeat some templars too given that Hawke is not alone and he works very well with his companions.

Also there are quite easy ways to defeat Cauthrien, especially if you are mage then even nightmare becomes a joke. There is a mage spell which makes the target immune to all magic, either hostile or friendly. Cast that on yourself, cast storm of century, then do nothing and watch how they die. But it doesn't really matter how you do it but the option to do it is there, meaning the PC can be that powerful.

Also that was not the Templar army, some more were on the way but the ones surrounding Hawke were not that many. Remember the hordes we fight at night? Pretty much around those numbers

[The Baconer]

And the PC despite your claims clearly isn't invulnerable given that Loghain's Ser Cauthrien proved quite adamantly that the PC can be swamped by skill and numbers.

 

My Warden was cranked out on Combat Magic. He was like an animal! They just couldn't bring him down!

 

Because the burning city in the background needed a government and he couldn't play baby sitter at the moment?

 

Play baby sitter to what? Since when is guarding the jail a job for the Knight Commander?

 

Because he didn't want to inflict further losses on his men?

 

Whose lives are supposed to be less important than their duty? I thought backing down in the face of death was the station of mages?

 

Because he honestly didn't care by that point about Hawke?

 

Treat those who spit on the Maker's law with apathy? No wonder the Templars have sunk so low by DA:I.

[TTTX]

Gentlemen, ladies, let us treat one another civilly.

On the BSN in Templars and Mage argument?

 

Not going to happen.

[Master Warder Z_]

Not invulnerable but please. Cory and Harvestino are much higher threat. In fact based on information on Harvester from DAO DLC, Harvestino could easily wipe out whole of Kirkwall. If someone can defeat that monstrosity then it can defeat some templars too given that Hawke is not alone and he works very well with his companions.

Also there are quite easy ways to defeat Cauthrien, especially if you are mage then even nightmare becomes a joke. There is a mage spell which makes the target immune to all magic, either hostile or friendly. Cast that on yourself, cast storm of century, then do nothing and watch how they die. But it doesn't really matter how you do it but the option to do it is there, meaning the PC can be that powerful.

Also that was not the Templar army, some more were on the way but the ones surrounding Hawke were not that many. Remember the hordes we fight at night? Pretty much around those numbers

 

A Human can die from getting bitten by the wrong flea, threat classification tends to go out the window when it comes to combat because even low capability enemies can occasionally kill special forces operatives.

 

This has nothing to do with what i presented, the "easiness" of being able to defeat an opponent that is capable of beating the PC storywise doesn't negate the fact she can defeat the PC.

 

There were still dozens in the Gallows which i said already, which would have likely been enough considering that even if had the entire host been defeated, there would have been many more on the way, which is really the entire point of what i said.

 

The PC cannot one shot an army, not even in segments, one decent sized and properly outfitted regiment i believe could have taken Hawke and whomever they brought with them.

[Lulupab]

and the habits of one guy's culture of drinking their fallen enemies' blood was also important

beyond that, do we have any specifics that the magic actually requires blood magic and isn't just regular magic performed on blood

WOT actually has much info on this. You cannot become a grey warden by drinking darkspawn blood. A ritual must be done on the blood in order to give it that effect or you will become like Ruck. The ritual was invented by Tevinter blood mages, and the ritual is as blood magic as phylactries of the circle.

[MisterJB]

So its your turn after br3admax? Stop with this stretch. Pro mage Hawke kills a good chunk of Templars before reaching Meredith,

A chunk? At most, you kill two dozens or so in the whole battle. If we interpret those numbers faithfully, as you seem intent on doing if you claim the Templars we can count in the final cutscene are all there is, that's still nothing in any moderately sized army and we know there are more Templars than normal in Kirkwall.

 

 

The PC is a snowflake, deal with it.

 

Yeah, but s/he can't kill an army.

There is big difference between killing an High Dragon; where attacks are only coming from one direction, for instance; and trying to fight hundreds if not thousands of armored soldiers by yourself who can simply surround and overwhelm you.

It doesn't matter how tough you are when all it takes is an arrow to back of the head and you're done.

 

[Hellion Rex]

This is what happens when you give the mages too much freedom. Things should more calm. Serene. Tranquil.  

Bah. Restrict them too much and you get an idiot like Anders that does something stupid.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

The PC cannot one shot an army, not even in segments, one decent sized and properly outfitted regiment i believe could have taken Hawke and whomever they brought with them.

Oh yeah, no question. But given how dangerous Hawke is (he did just kill the first Red Templar, and while I acknowledge Gameplay vs Story this is clearly something that happened in both), some of them probably would have died too. And Cullen was the most obvious candidate. I think some of it was wanting to live for the sake of Kirkwall, and some of it was wanting his men to survive and realizing that this was stupid anyway, but it just really seems obvious from his reaction to watching his nervous steps in the other direction (and not towards any Templars that I can see) that he does not want to die.

[Master Warder Z_]

My Warden was cranked out on Combat Magic. He was like an animal! They just couldn't bring him down!

 

 

As i said to Lulu doesn't really disprove the point.

 

 

Play baby sitter to what? Since when is guarding the jail a job for the Knight Commander?

 

The farce of trying to arrest Hawke after the incident, Considering there were demons, mages and alike running rampant through the city at the time.

 

 

Whose lives are supposed to be less important than their duty? I thought backing down in the face of death was the station of mages?

 

Their duty is to protect the common man from magic, unless if Hawke decided to go on a killing spree in kirkwall it would be akin to Aveline's husband temporary forgoing his own hunt for apostates in the face of the blight.

 

 

Treat those who spit on the Maker's law with apathy? No wonder the Templars have sunk so low by DA:I.

 

I didn't agree with Cullen for letting Hawke go, i honestly believe he could have won the day for the Templars even from the jaws of defeat had he grown a backbone, but this isn't about the "decay" of the order as you see it, it never was.

 

It was about a point you apparently cannot prove, and trying to claim my many, many bitcoins.

[Icy Magebane]

Bah. Restrict them too much and you get an idiot like Anders that does something stupid.

Agreed, but there still need to be some regulations.  Letting the Circle study blood magic surely isn't the answer...

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Agreed, but there still need to be some regulations.  Letting the Circle study blood magic surely isn't the answer...

That can be the answer to some other problems. (As long as you're not stupid about how you go about it.)

[Hellion Rex]

Agreed, but there still need to be some regulations.  Letting the Circle study blood magic surely isn't the answer...

 

 

That can be the answer to some other problems. (As long as you're not stupid about how you go about it.)

Only Loyalists, but under the strictest of environments.

[Master Warder Z_]

Agreed, but there still need to be some regulations.  Letting the Circle study blood magic surely isn't the answer...

 

It really isn't, its a stupid decision.

[Icy Magebane]

That can be the answer to some other problems. (As long as you're not stupid about how you go about it.)

And what are your thoughts on allowing all mages to freely study blood magic within the Circle?  Because personally I think that might be one of the "bad" ideas.

[Ryzaki]

Bah. Restrict them too much and you get an idiot like Anders that does something stupid.

 

Ideally some of them should have great amounts of freedom (mostly the reasonable and responsible ones who have proven themselves...sane really). The issue is picking the right ones =/

[Willowhugger]

It really isn't, its a stupid decision.

 

I think it's a stupid decision.

 

I think it's pretty much a trap by Dumat set for unsuspecting mages.

[Master Warder Z_]

Bah. Restrict them too much and you get an idiot like Anders that does something stupid.

 

Hence why you kill or make tranquil the idiots.

[Lulupab]

A chunk? At most, you kill two dozens or so in the whole battle. If we interpret those numbers faithfully, as you seem intent on doing if you claim the Templars we can count in the final cutscene are all there is, that's still nothing in any moderately sized army and we know there are more Templars than normal in Kirkwall.

You always go to limits and say the circle is full of blood mages based on the number we fight until we reach Meredith. By that assumption yes we do kill a chunk of Templars, how else you justify Hawke having a full tour of the circle. All templars who were not at the entrance were naturally killed.

eah, but s/he can't kill an army.
There is big difference between killing an High Dragon; where attacks are only coming from one direction, for instance; and trying to fight hundreds if not thousands of armored soldiers by yourself who can simply surround and overwhelm you.
It doesn't matter how tough you are when all it takes is an arrow to back of the head and you're done.

So you claim. It depends on situations. Fiona and Duncan along with rest of the wardens literally take out entire army of Darkspawn and Fiona gets most of the credit. Anders kills hundreds of Darkspawn in Awakening epilogue before dying or being branded hero of vigil's keep. Do you think the army that the Harvester defeated back in the old age thought like you did? Perhaps they did because maybe that's why there were utterly defeated. What if Anders creates a shield and deflects the arrow? Then varric shots the archer and Aveline does what she does best, being a battering ram in shape of a woman. With Templars already fearing Hawke it could totally happen. We have to assume there is perfect team work between Hawke and his companions or they would never make it that far.

Maybe taking down an army is very hard but taking those templars at the entrance was quite possible given that the real army that liberated the city was miles away and it was probably last fragments of Kirkwall Templars.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

And what are your thoughts on allowing all mages to freely study blood magic within the Circle?  Because personally I think that might be one of the "bad" ideas.

See also: "as long as you're not stupid about how you go about it."

[Icy Magebane]

Ideally some of them should have great amounts of freedom (mostly the reasonable and responsible ones who have proven themselves...sane really). The issue is picking the right ones =/

I think it might be worth the risk in some cases because it would lessen the gap between Templar and mage.  If specific mages are given more freedoms once they've proven trustworthy, it might make other mages more hopeful that they too can gain greater respect and autonomy if they consistently follow the rules.

[Lulupab]

And what are your thoughts on allowing all mages to freely study blood magic within the Circle?  Because personally I think that might be one of the "bad" ideas.

The person who invented the Litany actually studied blood magic and was not a blood mage. So there is benefit to studying blood magic but surely not everyone should be allowed to do it.

[Hellion Rex]

Hence why you kill or make tranquil the idiots.

I can't disagree with you there. At the end of the day, magic is not safe in the hands of such people.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I think it might be worth the risk in some cases because it would lessen the gap between Templar and mage.  If specific mages are given more freedoms once they've proven trustworthy, it might make other mages more hopeful that they too can gain greater respect and autonomy if they consistently follow the rules.

That's generally how prisons work, apparently. That said, I think maybe they should be required to keep their Blood Magic privileges secret. If someone only shows their true colors after they learn it? Bad things.