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[Lulupab]

Hell, maybe we could have seen reform if Anders had not chosen to act as he did. Maybe Lambert would have even been on board with some of them. What Anders did put everyone on edge, and understandably so.

While I agree with this statement and I'm not claiming what Anders was helpful. But to my knowledge he was the most tormented mage by chantry that we meet in the game. Revenge is not justified, but when someone is that damaged it doesn't matter anymore. He was a product of hate and he returned the favor.

Perhaps change could be accomplished with a moderate approach but it would not take decades, but rather centuries. Not until the economic and political structures could support rights movements would the Mages be able to tap to the concordance of the collective to force political reforms. In this time we are weighing a likely short though violent war against the current situation. Templars do not simply incarcerate mages. There are rather extensive instances of molestation and rape, constant psychological violence, and the right of tranquility which is not only psychological murder but also largely economical exploitation; the skills of the Tranquil in enchantment partly fund the Chantry and the Templars. All I am saying is, do not compare what Anders did with examples of social reforms in the past century cause there is no analogy. Rather consider any instances of actual social reform taking place peacefully in the Dark Ages.

There is no single instance of change that came peacefully in feudal times.

[Willowhugger]

Bah, magic is not a disease!

HUMANS! HUMANS ARE THE DISEASE!

Ahem, sorry.

But yes, I think the Templars lost all moral when the Champion and company killed Demon Meredith.

So they acquit the field.

Arresting him was a big issue BEFORE her revelation.

[MisterJB]

Good point, it would also devastate the economy of the Circle as well as create tensions between groups like the Libertarians; who would want it used; and the Lucrosians; who wouldn't...

Actually, never mind, a cure sounds like a wonderful idea.

[Hellion Rex]

He took away the possibility of it happening?

Yeah, Anders took away the possibility of reform and change coming peacefully, with the Templar Order, even Lambert, possibly getting on board.. Now we are faced with war and blood and death instead.

[MisterJB]

the skills of the Tranquil in enchantment partly fund the Chantry and the Templars.

They don't. Gaider has already confirmed 100% of the gains go to the mages.

[Willowhugger]

I always wondered what you thought of my essay Lulupab.

 

Your comments inspired a lot of part 1.

[Hellion Rex]

That would be ideal, of course.

In the meantime, a cure would just restore dangerous mages and create tensions between Templars and mages which did happen.

Considering how many hoops they had to jump through to just get the damn cure to work once, it was certainly not worth the effort.

[raging_monkey]

Templars and magi should just kiss and get it over with lol jk

[Willowhugger]

Yeah, Anders took away the possibility of reform and change coming peacefully, with the Templar Order, even Lambert, possibly getting on board.. Now we are faced with war and blood and death instead.

Was reform possible?

Eventual freedom?

Now we'll never know.

[Master Warder Z_]

Yeah, Anders took away the possibility of reform and change coming peacefully, with the Templar Order, even Lambert, possibly getting on board.. Now we are faced with war and blood and death instead.

 

Oh, I misinterpreted the statement.

 

I do admit i was surprised by Lambert and the Knight Captain's conversation i admit.

 

But it makes sense, if you can undo some of the supposedly "unjust" tranqulities, that will only improve relations.

[Hellion Rex]

Was reform possible?

Eventual freedom?

Now we'll never know.

And that was what saddens me most out of all that mess.

[Willowhugger]

Executions I prefer to Tranquility as I think Tranquil tend to freak out mages 1000% more than a dead body which can be forgotten.

[Master Warder Z_]

Was reform possible?

 

Lambert was willing to consider the possibility of looking into a cure for tranquility on Templar Terms.

 

I think that says enough.

[Master Warder Z_]

They don't. Gaider has already confirmed 100% of the gains go to the mages.

 

You figure people would actually keep up with the developments in the lore if they want to debate this.

[Willowhugger]

Lambert was willing to consider the possibility of looking into a cure for tranquility on Templar Terms.

 

I think that says enough.

He agreed to it in front of the Divine and proceeded to attempt to undermine it by attempting to bribe/intimidate Evangeline into denouncing the research.

[Lulupab]

I always wondered what you thought of my essay Lulupab.

Your comments inspired a lot of part 1.

I haven't seen , link?

[Willowhugger]

They don't. Gaider has already confirmed 100% of the gains go to the mages.

I admit this is true.

Also, the First Enchanters sign off on Tranquility.

Jerks.

[Willowhugger]

I haven't seen , link?

 

http://forum.bioware...templars-essay/

Part 1, 2, and 3 have links in the first post.

[Lulupab]

You figure people would actually keep up with the developments in the lore if they want to debate this.

I can't keep up with all things that gaider says. I have read all the available lore in forms of books and comics though.

[Hellion Rex]

Executions I prefer to Tranquility as I think Tranquil tend to freak out mages 1000% more than a dead body which can be forgotten.

You'd think that the threat of Tranquility would be enough to scare mages to stay in line with the law.

[Master Warder Z_]

He agreed to it in front of the Divine and proceeded to attempt to undermine it by attempting to bribe/intimidate Evangeline into denouncing the research.

 

He agreed to allow them to hold a conclave about the subject, in private he said it shouldn't be done right now, it should be done under supervision in a time with a lot less tension.

 

He wasn't wrong.

 

And Evangeline is a moron for not seeing the writing on the wall: The mages will take any excuse you give them to rebel.

 

It had been proven in two circles already.

[Master Warder Z_]

You'd think that the threat of Tranquility would be enough to scare mages to stay in line with the law.

 

Some of them are just too stupid to be scared i think, they don't grasp the gravity of what they are doing.

[The Baconer]

Enforcing the law in a situation where the letter of the law is actually doing harm to the spirit of it?

 

How so? No matter what, a Hawke to takes the pro-mage ending has killed Templars while defending a corrupt blood mage. In addition to this, Hawke might also be an apostate, could have also aided and supported Anders in blowing up the Chantry. Anders himself could be aiding the Champion in hindering the Templars in their attempt to annul the Circle.

 

The situation in the city, not so much if the brief bit of it we saw was any indicator.

 

Which can be attended to after the arrest or execution. Shouldn't be a problem if subduing the 4 criminals is as simple as you say.

 

I didn't say that, i said he lacked the backbone to do what i interpret as his duty at the time.

 

Lacking the courage to do what must be done is a back down... or corruption. I suppose either will apply.

 

Because their direct superior said no, and half the order was apparently gossiping she was mad anyway, and she was relieved of command, it isn't as if this is Meredith ordering the Templars to attack Qunari during act 2.

 

Mad or no, what line is being crossed when Meredith makes the order, but wouldn't apply to Cullen making the exact same order a few minutes later? Meredith's sanity at the time aside, this is an individual who has personally killed a number of their brother and sisters in arms, and has assisted in the killing of numbers beyond that.

 

Of course, the question of whether or not the Templars would have hesitated at Cullen's order will forever be unanswered, what with the Backdown.

[Willowhugger]

You'd think that the threat of Tranquility would be enough to scare mages to stay in line with the law.

 

The nature of criminal behavior is few people are ever intimidated into not doing a crime because they rarely think they'll be caught in the first place.

 

Of course, Tranquility isn't a punishment either.

I wonder how many Templars and Mage miss this too.

Tranquility is meant to be a safety pressure for mages who run a risk of hurting others.

Never used punitively.

[The Baconer]

Of course, Tranquility isn't a punishment either.

I wonder how many Templars and Mage miss this too.

Tranquility is meant to be a safety pressure for mages who run a risk of hurting others.

Never used punitively.

 

This, I thought Tranquility as a punitive measure wasn't even legal?