3241 réponses à ce sujet

[Willowhugger]

Where are your examples? Because he gave examples and you brought in nothing. 

 

Owain says he doesn't have emotions but that doesn't make him not a person.

There.

Pharamond also says Tranquil desire nothing and feel nothing.

[Cainhurst Crow]

You don't need fear to make intellectual decisions and pain is not an emotional response but a physiological one.

 

Thus, a Tranquil would try to avoid harm because it is unpleasant in a way they recognize.

 

The biggest way to avoid harm is to stop it or avoid it. So the direct response from tranquil would likely be to report the negative behavior, if not to the knight commander, then their superior the grand cleric via letter.

 

It's the logical thing to do, not lie back and accept the painful situation and endure something they do not want.

[MisterJB]

It can't be legal since Tranquility is not a punishment.

True, Tranquility is meant to stop mages who are too dangerous to be trusted with magic. Blood mages, Dreamers, mages who just can't control their powers.

But in an harsh enough Circle, one can easily make a case that a mage who flees the Circle is placing the whole city in danger and thus can't be trusted.

[Willowhugger]

The biggest way to avoid harm is to stop it or avoid it. So the direct response from tranquil would likely be to report the negative behavior, if not to the knight commander, then their superior the grand cleric via letter.

 

It's the logical thing to do, not lie back and accept the painful situation and endure something they do not want.

It depends if they recognize the law or are simply following the first rules which function after they become Tranquil.

"New Tranquil, you belong to me now. Do you understand?"
"Yes sir."
"Don't report this to the Knight Commander."
"Yes sir."

 

Which is scary when you think about it.

 

It's why the Qun version of the Rite of Tranquility makes People Qunari.

 

They tell them to be Qunari.

 

So Tranquil obey orders and generally display self-preservation instincts as well as a desire to avoid pain but don't really do anything else. They probably have some rote behaviors too like washing, bathing, and so on.

[Cainhurst Crow]

As far as we know, Alrik was merely bending the law and then taking advantage of the Tranquil. For instance, he finds Ella escaping the Circle, convinces Meredith this is worthy of Tranquility and she pressures Orsino into signing it.

 

 

If it did, it probably went like this.

 

[MisterJB]

Is there ANY reason to give Ser Alrik this sort of benefit of the doubt?

No, I'm just trying to come up with reasons why no one but Anders seemed to notice or care mages who passed their Harrowing were being made Tranquil.

 

Also, Tranquility is not meant to be used punitively.

It's not a punishment.

It's a last-ditch method when a mage has proven incapable of fending off demons.

Not just, Jowan was going to be submitted to it because he was a blood mage.
Altough you're right in saying that it's not a punishment, it's meant to be prevention.

[Ieldra]

Well, my Sebastian said that he supported Mage freedom from the Tyranny of the Templars so I'm not sure about that.

You're kidding me, right?

[Willowhugger]

 

No, I'm just trying to come up with reasons why no one but Anders seemed to notice or care mages who passed their Harrowing were being made Tranquil.

 

In my headcanon thread, I actually think the Templars let Hawke deal with it.

 

One of them possibly letting it slip to Anders.

Avoids the embarrassment of a public trial.

[Cainhurst Crow]

It depends if they recognize the law or are simply following the first rules which function after they become Tranquil.

"New Tranquil, you belong to me now. Do you understand?"
"Yes sir."
"Don't report this to the Knight Commander."
"Yes sir."

 

Which is scary when you think about it.

 

It's why the Qun version of the Rite of Tranquility makes People Qunari.

 

They tell them to be Qunari.

 

So Tranquil obey orders and generally display self-preservation instincts as well as a desire to avoid pain but don't really do anything else. They probably have some rote behaviors too like washing, bathing, and so on.

 

They aren;t machines. You don't program directives into them that they can't disobey.

 

Again, tranquil have free will, they dont BELONG to anyone. And telling them they do, won't make them obey you.
 

[Willowhugger]

You're kidding me, right?

 

No.

That's what he told me when I killed Anders and sided with the Mages.

 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

No.

That's what he told me when I killed Anders and sided with the Mages.

Are you sure he wasn't saying "I will say anything the man who avenged the woman I loved wants to hear?"

[Willowhugger]

Are you sure he wasn't saying "I will say anything the man who avenged the woman I loved wants to hear?"

 

You be the judge.

It seems to be, "Andraste said all creatures should be free, so why not mages?"

It's like Sebastian read Yertle the Turtle that day.

[Ieldra]

No.

That's what he told me when I killed Anders and sided with the Mages.

OK, after you killed Anders. Not what I meant.

[HiroVoid]

You're kidding me, right?

Sebastian's anti-Anders; Not anti-mage.

[Willowhugger]

Sebastian's anti-Anders; Not anti-mage.

 

If he learned that from Elthina, I feel doubly bad.

[Ryzaki]

Sebastian's anti-Anders; Not anti-mage.

 

Yep some people need to stop acting like the two are the same.

 

That said i'm pretty sure Seb's more on the mages belong in the circle part of the spectrum. The templars abuses though have clearly reached a level of too much though.

[TTTX]

They aren;t machines. You don't program directives into them that they can't disobey.

 

Again, tranquil have free will, they dont BELONG to anyone. And telling them they do, won't make them obey you.
 

I'm pretty sure that you can threaten the Tranquil or make them believe they belong to you.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I'm pretty sure that you can threaten the Tranquil or make them believe they belong to you.

 

How exactly? Emotionally breaking them? Making them fear you until they feel companionship towards you Stockholm syndrome style?

 

[Icy Magebane]

No.

That's what he told me when I killed Anders and sided with the Mages.

 

-snip-

Based on this video, he seems to be in favor of punishing the Templars for breaking the laws of the Chantry.  He makes no mention of supporting mage freedom and even says, "We'll worry about the mages after."

 

edit:  fixed that to use his exact quote...

[Willowhugger]

I don't doubt the Tranquil have free will.

They don't HAVE to obey you.

I agree.

However, they have no reason NOT to obey someone like Ser Alrik.

 

Free will is hard to gage when you have no desires other than "Not die."

[Willowhugger]

Based on this video, he seems to be in favor of punishing the Templars for breaking the laws of the Chantry.  He makes no mention of supporting mage freedom and even says, "We'll deal with the mages afterwards."

 

Well, he also says that mages should have the freedom to walk in the light of the Maker or throw themselves into the Void.

That can mean a lot of things.

 

So it's quite likely he's very much pro-Mage Freedom as long as it's not involving crime.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I don't doubt the Tranquil have free will.
They don't HAVE to obey you.

I agree.
However, they have no reason NOT to obey someone like Ser Alrik.
 
Free will is hard to gage when you have no desires other than "Not die."

They seem to have a thing for obeying laws and regulations as well. And since alrik is breaking the law in those cases, enough that they would know their own tranquility was a violation of theb.

I dont see why they wouldn't try and report his actions or why they would have incentive to follow him more then thrask.

[TTTX]

How exactly? Emotionally breaking them? Making them fear you until they feel companionship towards you Stockholm syndrome style?

You threaten them with cutting off their arms then they can't work, this means from a logical stand point it would be wise to do what the person tells you to do.

[Icy Magebane]

Well, he also says that mages should have the freedom to walk in the light of the Maker or throw themselves into the Void.

That can mean a lot of things.

 

So it's quite likely he's very much pro-Mage Freedom as long as it's not involving crime.

I'm not so sure about that... he seemed pretty resistant to the idea for the majority of the game, and gains Rivalry in several instances where Hawke supports mages.  As I look at the wiki, some examples of this are telling Marethari that you won't make Feynriel tranquil, letting Emille De Launcet escape, saying "I am no ally of yours" to Meredith when accepting the quest "On the Loose," and making anti-Templar remarks when accepting the quest "Dissent" from Anders.  I even recall him referring to the mage freedom movement as a "ridiculous mage rebellion."

[raging_monkey]

You threaten them with cutting off their arms then they can't work, this means from a logical stand point it would be wise to do what the person tells you to do.

reminds me of slaves. Only really happy when they are commanded