3241 réponses à ce sujet

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Alternative Pro-Meredith view: Meredith was going to do something about it but Hawke took care of the problem.

Cyncial View: Meredith arranged for Anders and Alrik to meet figuring Hawke would be there too.

[Icy Magebane]

I do to an extent. I'm not a fan of the one size fits all solution for example. I agree on mage supervision unless the people don't want it. The dailish for example. I'm a supporter of the right of self determination. In much the same way though if a people want to exile mages from their community well that's their call. I just believe the right to life takes priority over the right of self determination so kicking the mage out is fine killing them is not.

So do you favor a system in which each nation determines their own policies... or... do you mean each individual mage?  Something else perhaps?

[Willowhugger]

I do to an extent. I'm not a fan of the one size fits all solution for example. I agree on mage supervision unless the people don't want it. The dailish for example. I'm a supporter of the right of self determination. In much the same way though if a people want to exile mages from their community well that's their call. I just believe the right to life takes priority over the right of self determination so kicking the mage out is fine killing them is not.

 

I believe high fences make good neighbors.

 

Mages have a right to self-rule and to have families, children, and love but regular humans have a right to armies of people trained to destroy them as well as dispel mind-control.

If mages want freedom, we must be willing to police our own.

 

Like Bishop in the X-men!

[Willowhugger]

Cyncial View: Meredith arranged for Anders and Alrik to meet figuring Hawke would be there too.

It's my headcanon that Meredith asked for Hawke to take care of the wayward mages because she'd assumed Hawke was aware of just how much she overlooked in exchange for his (unknowing) cooperation.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Tell me if I'm wrong, but this is the impression I'm getting here.
 
You're going to completely disregard something from in-game dialogue and lore, which I used to show as an example that you hear of the abuses of authority and the despair it causes to those who knew them, eye-witness testimony straight from the victims's mouth, simply because of the game it came from and you disagree with it?

In a word, yes. Blunders happen. Writers goof and make really dumb decisions or ideas.

I mean we're on the bioware forum, I think we all can point to at least 3 examples of this sort of thing.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Then most likely the Tranquil did report it to Meredith...and she didn't care.

This I can live with. But that line will go right in the top blunders bioware did for me, right up there with "justice and I are one" and "It is not a thing you can comprehend."

[raging_monkey]

I do to an extent. I'm not a fan of the one size fits all solution for example. I agree on mage supervision unless the people don't want it. The dailish for example. I'm a supporter of the right of self determination. In much the same way though if a people want to exile mages from their community well that's their call. I just believe the right to life takes priority over the right of self determination so kicking the mage out is fine killing them is not.

i only dislike how both groups make things worse while trying to fix it. Its better has us contained in a circl like place where templars fairly do their job. Its a common fact magi can be dangerous and kept safe from non magi. Non-magi cant overall trust magi. I hate to say this as a black american separate but equal has helped magi

[Cainhurst Crow]

i would say the tranquil can lie but lying requires some negative emotion doesnt ?

Or self preservation/chance to advance ones own ends. Hiding is a form of lying, involving the body instead of verbal communication. And lying to save your life is a logical thing to do.

[dragonflight288]

In a word, yes. Blunders happen. Writers goof and make really dumb decisions or ideas.

I mean we're on the bioware forum, I think we all can point to at least 3 examples of this sort of thing.

 

Okay. Until some other bit of evidence or word from the developers comes around, my point remains standing.

[dragonflight288]

Or self preservation/chance to advance ones own ends. Hiding is a form of lying, involving the body instead of verbal communication. And lying to save your life is a logical thing to do.

 

There simply isn't the emotions to create a sense of immediacy in doing so. Owain went to Wynne's barrier, rather than call for help, he went back to work in the storeroom. 

 

Logically, he would prefer not to die, but he didn't have the emotions to make it so high a priority and put himself into a position of greater safety. 

 

Granted, he also was incapable of panic.

[raging_monkey]

Or self preservation/chance to advance ones own ends. Hiding is a form of lying, involving the body instead of verbal communication. And lying to save your life is a logical thing to do.

true

[Cainhurst Crow]

Okay. Until some other bit of evidence or word from the developers comes around, my point remains standing.

The tranquil from asunder directly contradict the ones from DA2.

[Willowhugger]

The tranquil from asunder directly contradict the ones from DA2.

 

I'm not so sure. There was a lot of stuff going on crazy in DA2.

 

But yes, I confess it does seem the Tranquil do possess no obligation to obey their masters.

They just do.

For some reason.

[Inprea]

So do you favor a system in which each nation determines their own policies... or... do you mean each individual mage?  Something else perhaps?

 

I would prefer if each nation decided how they wanted to handle their mages but I'd like the mages to have some choices in the matter. After all I do believe in the right to life. Though I know they're some that would say we have no rights and they're simply a human idea or feel good words. That's an argument for a philosophy class though and this isn't one of those.

 

For example. I'd like to see a mage city state formed. A place that would be founded by mages and respected as an independent state. Yet I'd also like it if the templar guarded circle remained. Parents of mages would then be given a choice. Their child can be taken to the circle, the mage city state, the imperium, the keeper of a dailish clan if the dailish are cool with that or allowed to stay with the family if and only if their community allowed this. Then once the child reaches the age of adulthood they'd get to choose where they go.

 

Naturally those mages who chose to live free would be fully responsible for themselves. The templars would be under no obligation to rush to the city's aid if the mages screwed up and let lose a flood of demons upon themselves or if the mages found a massive horde of dark spawn knocking at their city gates.

 

 

I believe high fences make good neighbors.

 

Mages have a right to self-rule and to have families, children, and love but regular humans have a right to armies of people trained to destroy them as well as dispel mind-control.

If mages want freedom, we must be willing to police our own.

 

Like Bishop in the X-men!

 

I agree though to those ends more research needs to be put into mage detection. I've often wondered if raw lyrium could be used. We know that both mundanes and mages react to lyrium but mages have a far more violent reaction. It seems like this could be used to develop some kind of detection system.

[Cainhurst Crow]

There simply isn't the emotions to create a sense of immediacy in doing so. Owain went to Wynne's barrier, rather than call for help, he went back to work in the storeroom. 
 
Logically, he would prefer not to die, but he didn't have the emotions to make it so high a priority and put himself into a position of greater safety. 
 
Granted, he also was incapable of panic.

I think you are wrong. I think, in fact, what he did was more logical, just not a logical train of thought you with your emotions and sense of panic would make.

He went for the exit, the demons were in the tower and owain knew to get away from them. When he came to the exit, there was an obstruction, the barrier. This meant that owain was now out in the open, exposed to any demons who might get a line of sight on him, and essentially a piece of meat in the wide open for any predators to see.

So what did owain do? Waste time trying to break a barrier that might not have anyone behind it?

No, he chose to hide. He weighed his options of staying out in the open where he could get attacked, or going to a hiding place that had proved effective before.

It was logical, and it followed the need to survive. I don't see immediacy being reduced, but rather enhanced. The need to survive overpowered the need to take risks that had a high chance of failure, and so he went to the option that provided a stronger garuntee of safety.

[Willowhugger]

I agree though to those ends more research needs to be put into mage detection. I've often wondered if raw lyrium could be used. We know that both mundanes and mages react to lyrium but mages have a far more violent reaction. It seems like this could be used to develop some kind of detection system.

 

The upside of mage detection is preventing bad incidents from happening.

The downside is it would make magicide easier.

 

Now I'm envisioning the Templars commissioning building-sized Mage-Hunter Golems.

 

"HALT MAGE."

 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

The upside of mage detection is preventing bad incidents from happening.

The downside is it would make magicide easier.

 

Now I'm envisioning the Templars commissioning building-sized Mage-Hunter Golems.

 

"HALT MAGE."

They'd do it if they could, I'll bet. But golems don't seem to get any higher than twice human size, and if the dwarves can make them again they probably won't share.

[raging_monkey]

I would prefer if each nation decided how they wanted to handle their mages but I'd like the mages to have some choices in the matter. After all I do believe in the right to life. Though I know they're some that would say we have no rights and they're simply a human idea or feel good words. That's an argument for a philosophy class though and this isn't one of those. For example. I'd like to see a mage city state formed. A place that would be founded by mages and respected as an independent state. Yet I'd also like it if the templar guarded circle remained. Parents of mages would then be given a choice. Their child can be taken to the circle, the mage city state, the imperium, the keeper of a dailish clan if the dailish are cool with that or allowed to stay with the family if and only if their community allowed this. Then once the child reaches the age of adulthood they'd get to choose where they go. Naturally those mages who chose to live free would be fully responsible for themselves. The templars would be under no obligation to rush to the city's aid if the mages screwed up and let lose a flood of demons upon themselves or if the mages found a massive horde of dark spawn knocking at their city gates.   I agree though to those ends more research needs to be put into mage detection. I've often wondered if raw lyrium could be used. We know that both mundanes and mages react to lyrium but mages have a far more violent reaction. It seems like this could be used to develop some kind of detection system.

what if the state goes rogue and a threat to all

[Master Warder Z_]

They'd do it if they could, I'll bet. But golems don't seem to get any higher than twice human size, and if the dwarves can make them again they probably won't share.

 

Bah!

 

We need Siege Golems!

[Mistic]

The upside of mage detection is preventing bad incidents from happening.

The downside is it would make magicide easier.

 

Now I'm envisioning the Templars commissioning building-sized Mage-Hunter Golems.

 

"HALT MAGE."

 

 

Well, we know that colossal golems do exist. The problem is that they are in Tevinter's hands, so I suppose it would be more like: "HALT TEMPLAR."

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Bah!

 

We need Siege Golems!

Branka doesn't seem the sort to share if doing so doesn't lead to darkspawn dying.

[Willowhugger]

Well, we know that colossal golems do exist. The problem is that they are in Tevinter's hands, so I suppose it would be more like: "HALT TEMPLAR."

 

I have to wonder what the Templars in Tevinter DO really.

 

Beat up the poor mages?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I have to wonder what the Templars in Tevinter DO really.

 

Beat up the poor mages?

They serve as bodyguards for the high-ranking mages and cannon fodder against abominations.

[Master Warder Z_]

sod ill just ask it so i can talk with you easily. What are yoir in-depth views on this cause i know you used to fair better circles so for my ease tell me please?

 

Complicated is what they are.

 

Mages will continue to exist, they are a naturally occurring element in Thedas, but there is likely no stopping that.

 

So what are we to do with them? Thankfully there is already an answer, through the circle they are kept safe from themselves and others, they learn their gifts, they also warded over and kept under watch to prevent them from recreating some things that are better off in the history books then in reality.

 

Ultimately i'm as pro circle as i am pro Templar, i support the templars because they seek a return to the status quo, and that is what i am willing to fight for.

 

The Status quo keeps the world rolling on its axis.

[Icy Magebane]

I would prefer if each nation decided how they wanted to handle their mages but I'd like the mages to have some choices in the matter. After all I do believe in the right to life. Though I know they're some that would say we have no rights and they're simply a human idea or feel good words. That's an argument for a philosophy class though and this isn't one of those.

 

For example. I'd like to see a mage city state formed. A place that would be founded by mages and respected as an independent state. Yet I'd also like it if the templar guarded circle remained. Parents of mages would then be given a choice. Their child can be taken to the circle, the mage city state, the imperium, the keeper of a dailish clan if the dailish are cool with that or allowed to stay with the family if and only if their community allowed this. Then once the child reaches the age of adulthood they'd get to choose where they go.

 

Naturally those mages who chose to live free would be fully responsible for themselves. The templars would be under no obligation to rush to the city's aid if the mages screwed up and let lose a flood of demons upon themselves or if the mages found a massive horde of dark spawn knocking at their city gates.

Interesting... well, I'm always bringing up how the Dalish should migrate to the unexplored lands to the northwest (the Donark Forest), so perhaps that might be a good place for the mages to settle into if they decide to flee.  I'm not positive that the Chantry would allow this, but depending on how Inquisition unfolds, they may not be in any position to stop them or to pursue them later on... so it's at least a possibility. 

 

If this occurs alongside the Circle's continued existence, however... hm... I don't want to be too negative but I'm not entirely sure this would work.  I mean, the (formerly?) White Chantry nations would basically be agreeing to raise, feed, and train mages so that they could then travel to a potential rival nation, or even Tevinter of all places, once they came of age.  If the mage settlements are formed within the borders of existing nations, there is still the issue of them possibly migrating to Tevinter and strengthening an ancient enemy of the south.  Personally, I think you'd be better off migrating and leaving the Circle behind.  Maybe you could train new Templars from future generations of non-mages born in this new land?  It could happen...