Yeah, it's hard to blame Nathaniel for being a thief without being an enormous....
Hey, Leliana, I see a chest!
UNLOCK IT!
My warden totally thought it was only his right to loot everything possible in Arl Eamon's castle while he was saving it from demons and undead XD
Yeah, it's hard to blame Nathaniel for being a thief without being an enormous....
Hey, Leliana, I see a chest!
UNLOCK IT!
Ba-Psssh!
Opportunities insufficiently guarded!
Victimless crimes!
I actually find this an interesting concept. It's because I often see fellow players taking the moral high road, and try to do what is right, so if they see someone comitting an terrible crime, players will come to the conclusion said people should be punished/killed for it. But if it's an companion doing such an thing, they will give them pause. For example, when I first played DA2, I thought what Isabela did, running away with the book and causing Kirkwall to be burned by the Qunari, was simply unaceptable. Her direct actions caused all this mayhem. And then I was quite surprised when I came here and saw many people were not bothered at all by what she did. They would even try to defend her. But what if she was not an companion? What if she was just an NPC we met? Would people be as forgiving? It makes you think.
I actually find this an interesting concept. It's because I often see fellow players taking the moral high road, and try to do what is right, so if they see someone comitting an terrible crime, players will come to the conclusion said people should be punished/killed for it. But if it's an companion doing such an thing, they will give them pause. For example, when I first played DA2, I thought what Isabela did, running away with the book and causing Kirkwall to be burned by the Qunari, was simply unaceptable. Her direct actions caused all this mayhem. And then I was quite surprised when I came here and saw many people were not bothered at all by what she did. They would even try to defend her. But what if she was not an companion? What if she was just an NPC we met? Would people be as forgiving? It makes you think.
My opinion?
I'm much-much-MUCH more disturbed by Isabella dumping slaves overboard than what happened with the Qunari.
I was, however, appalled that she was willing to let Kirkwall burn to save her own skin with the Book.
If she hadn't come back, my Hawke probably put her on a list.
I'm a bit confused about the the slaves thing. I thought she just released them, not caused their deaths. The wiki says that an old contact confirms that they "escaped to the wilds".
I'm a bit confused about the the slaves thing. I thought she just released them, not caused their deaths. The wiki says that an old contact confirms that they "escaped to the wilds".
I may be misremembering.
It is never revealed to where she released the slaves, though her old contact Hayder mentions that she let the slaves "scurry off into the wilds.
That's what wiki says.
I thought what Isabela did, running away with the book and causing Kirkwall to be burned by the Qunari, was simply unaceptable. Her direct actions caused all this mayhem.
Actually the Qunari could just go after her. After all the Arishok states that he knows about what happened. It was his choice to set the city on fire but not the only choice that he had. If anything, he didn't have any more reason to stay. Isabela was part of the reason things happened, but certainly not the reason.
I'm a bit confused about the the slaves thing. I thought she just released them, not caused their deaths. The wiki says that an old contact confirms that they "escaped to the wilds".
It's kind of an retcon from the comics. In the game she said she released the slaves once she realized what the cargo was, while in the comics it's shown that when she freed them, it was actually the second time she was transporting them. The first time, she dumped them all in sea to die when they got chased by orlesian ships.
But what if she was not an companion? What if she was just an NPC we met? Would people be as forgiving? It makes you think.
Isn't it only natural that we'd forgive a friend whom we've known for a long time and who have helped us in the past, when we wouldn't forgive a complete stranger for the same action?
I don't think that's very specific for DA companions.
It's kind of an retcon from the comics. In the game she said she released the slaves once she realized what the cargo was, while in the comics it's shown that when she freed them, it was actually the second time she was transporting them. The first time, she dumped them all in sea to die when they got chased by orlesian ships.
Ah I see, I haven't read any of the comics. Tbh this doesn't sound anything like her in DA2. I always thought that the bad part of her character is neglect. This sounds like murder. I guess I'll have to check it.
Ah I see, I haven't read any of the comics. Tbh this doesn't sound anything like her in DA2. I always thought that the bad part of her character is neglect. This sounds like murder. I guess I'll have to check it.
It was.
Isabella, herself, thinks it's an unforgivable crime.
Ironically, she and Sten probably would have much to talk about if they could get past....
Well, that's a LOT to get past.
So nevermind.
I am one of those that would think twice before punishing a misbehaved companion, but then again I also sometimes make strange decisions with NPCs, but mostly there's less thinking with NPCs because as the author said, we cannot bond with NPCs.
I must be a real moral freak here, because I scolded Isabela for stealing and had her run away, while I couldn't kill Anders. Yeah, I get it, the dude blew up the residence of the most neutral side in the Mage/Templar war, but before that he was a healer and saved lifes of many people. While I don't think I could keep up a romance with such a person (dude made me dig in **** and threatened to break up if I didn't help! D:) I didn't think killing him was the right thing to do. I was so sorry for him as he sat there after Chantry explosion scene. It seemed like he wasn't even really in full understanding of what he has done. I will always let him live. Maybe in DA:I he will do something to redeem himself. I must also be awful because the first time I heard Fenris, both his voice and motives, I told him to go away. Ugh. I love elves, but Fenris is last on my list.
I spare Anders almost all the time. I think I've killed him once or twice, just to see what would happen differently. 1) After Awakenings he was one of my favourite characters. He got a little whiny in DA2, but I still stuck with him. Even though he bombs a Chantry and kills loads of people he can't make up for it if he is dead. 2) It pisses off Sebastian something fierce and he goes from being a flip flopper regarding taking power back to being firm in his decision to get his city back (even if it is to wipe Kirkwall off the map...so not exactly win-win).
Aside from Loghain, who I kill in 99% of playthroughs, I spare most of the characters. Sten is one of my favourites from the first game and I started to appreciate the Qunari (or whatever is the correct way to spell it). Zevran was fun, but I rarely used him in some runs.
It's kind of an retcon from the comics. In the game she said she released the slaves once she realized what the cargo was, while in the comics it's shown that when she freed them, it was actually the second time she was transporting them. The first time, she dumped them all in sea to die when they got chased by orlesian ships.
Personally, I think Isabela lied in DA2.
I do punish my companions when I can. Honestly, I wish you could punish Isabela within Kirkwall instead of having to give her up to the Arishok for either death or conversion, I assume. I'm guessing death, because Isabela doesn't seem the type for the latter. Either way, for her crimes, it does seem extreme, especially since if she returns at all, it's the right choice to try and save the city. For that, she deserves leniency, but it feels like it's either give her up or let her completely off the hook. No in between, really.
Anders, however, killed innocents in cold blood in the name of his cause. He premeditated the whole thing, and then sadfaces about it afterwards like that's going to help anything. He really deserves the murder knife, no matter how much you bonded with him before.
Loghain I can see sparing in order to give him a noble sacrifice. He still dies, but gets to die a bit more honorable of a death than pure execution.
For Dragon Age Inquisition, I honestly am really gritting my teeth in the name of role play. Having read Asunder, I really, really think Cole deserves to be killed for his actions as well. At the very least, he shouldn't be allowed to walk free - unfortunately, his abilities make it difficult for anyone to contain him, so death seems to be the only option. However, it would be too meta for an Inquisitor to kill him right off the bat, unless they have a thing against spirit/ghost/thingies. I don't even know if we can kill him immediately, though one could see why the option would be logical in the right circumstances.
I'll be sighing for eight years straight having to drag him along though. Lots of people seem to love the guy, but for all the woobieness he might have, I still don't think it excuses his actions which I shall remain unnamed in case someone hasn't actually read the book lol.
Guest_Magick_*
Ain't nobody fresher than my clique, clique, clique, clique, clique...
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
...Why did this turn into another Loghain thread?
Because it's the Gawwdamn Mac Tir. Any thread infected with his awesome gets overrun if it's not stamped out quickly enough.
Loghain: "How dare you judge me!"
Anyway, to bring this back on topic.
I often tend to forgive companions for what they did (though Isabela really deserves a good spanking for the chaos that she has caused). Most of the time my characters aren't saints either, so it would be hyporite to judge them.
I tend to spare most people I come across.
I always spare people like Anders, Velanna and Loghain so that I can make them face up to the mess they caused. They won't be able to completely fix it, but perhaps they can atone for it and protect some of the innocents caught up along the way.
I spare people for pragmatic reasons, such as Velanna and Loghain. I executed Alistair because he betrayed me, and because he was already a dead man walking with no title and a self-inflicted lack of brotherhood with the Grey Wardens. My Warden saw it as a mercy killing with a side of melancholic occasional regret, but seeing what Alistair turns into if you spare Loghain and spare him, I metagaming regret it less and less. My Warden trusted his companions to be above petty political garbage, unlike the rest of Ferelden he had to run errands for all the time. Alistair fundamentally betrayed that trust, so he got rage-killed.
As far as Anders is concerned, he murdered innocent people and then had the gall to look forward to his martyring with a sense of anticipation. At that point, I immediately knifed him. Loghain at least had a practically expedient reason to be kept alive, but Anders didn't. He was willing to march over non-combatant corpses to achieve his goal, lacking the fundamental sense of culpability and regret for it that someone like Loghain ultimately possessed.
TL;DR If you betray my PC and I don't have a good reason to objectively keep you alive, you're a corpse. I'll cry about it once the apocalypse has been averted, if I cry about it at all.
So I wonder, if in Inquisition one of our companions were to do something that normally we would find outrageous, would you punish them for it just like you would for anyone else, or would you let them get away with it because they are one of your companions?
Well there was that makeshift trial we put Anders on in DA2. He gets to be the martyr he always wanted to be in my playthrough.
well lots of people killed Anders
Yep, I killed the bastard in every single playthrough. I never hesitated once. I was even hoping that there would be an option to kill him the first time before it finally appears. Not even my mage spared his life. I just can't.
I murdered Zevran in almost all my playthroughts, because he was an assassin that tried to kill me and my character didn't see any reason to trust him. Didn't care if I missed his content.
I also praticed the King's justice on Loghain as a Cousland and pretender to the throne at the side of Anora. ( yep, my warden was an ambitious noble, involved into politics and who didn't feel that he was just a random warden doing his job for humanity ) Also I wasn't willing to lose Alistair, a loyal man I could totally trust, a great friend, a brother with some experience as a warden who fighted at my side since the beginning to put an end to the blight for a paranoid man who divided the country and betrayed his king, a threat to the wardens who never believed in them, to the point where he saw them as one of the enemy.
I also always Kill Flemeth, even if she saved my character's life in the tower. Nothing personal against her, she was a threat to my woman, end of story. I always imagine my character thanking her for saving his life with stoicism... just before drawing slowly his sword from his sheath. 
Never offered Isabela to the enemy. why would I do such thing ? I will also never do any compromise with the Qunari. Count on me. I'll do my best to destroy the qun in all my playthroughs.
However, I wouldn't have hesitated to betray Tallis or to kill her, giving the list of the Qunari spies to the Orlesians and Tevinter. I wish I wasn't railroaded to follow her...
Giving Fenris to the mage is close to evil for me. There's absolutely no reason to do such thing... not even as a mage. He could say some things annoying, ( I personally thought what he said was reasonable ) but it is hardly harmful toward anyone.
Nope, I didn't see any reason to be angry against the companions overall. Anyways my characters are hardly perfect paragon people. They live in a ruthless world and they fit to this world. They are all flawed. There could be different reasons why I would act against them, political or moral, or personal. ( My female warden killed Nathaniel Howe for example who tried to kill her, but mostly because she wanted eradicate all the Howe after what they did to her family. 
)
The blood mage in the tower got a pass because I know that if I were in her shoes i'd have blood maged the roof off of that place to be free. In fact, I wish there was an option to have her join your crew.
Warden: How you doin?
Bloodmage: I...what?
Warden: *wink*
Bloodmage: Oh...oh my.
Wynne disapproves (-53)
Alistair disapproves (-20)
Leliana approves (+5)
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