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[IntoTheDarkness]

I've always wondered, when non human warden is granted Gwaren, Loghain's former land, does he also inherit the status of Teyrn, at which point would make him the only Teyrn in Ferelden?

 

I personally doubt that because if you become Bann of Alienage(which is far less prestigious and lower in rank), your city elf father is surprised that you've become a nobility. However, when you gain Gwaren, he doesn't mention it, implying either you are not nobilty or were given a knight-rank or similar.

 

You can't become prince-consort if you are elf due to your lowbirth. Alistair makes it clear that landsmeet won't accept elf queen either. It doesn't make sense if they allow elf Teyrn' so I always thoguth that it's only the land that I' given if I request land and title.

 

What are your thoughts? If an elf can become a teyrn, he/she would have a far more influence on affecing elves lives as Teyrn can have a huge influence in court, yet epilogue slides hint no such things.

[ShadowLordXII]

Probably an oversight by the writers.

 

The Teryn of Gwaren option is available to all Origins.

 

Fergus is also apparently alive, so the Warden would be one of two teryns.

[Willowhugger]

Gwaren was destroyed by the Darkspawn.

So it's less of a gift than it sounds like.

 

Loghain said, when you get his approval high enough, it was an empty title before the Blight.

Teyrn Elf Girl might be able to marry Alistair in a few years, though.

Depending on how things go, though.

[Silfren]

The Elf can indeed become a teyrn, yes.  And there's two teyrnirs in Ferelden--you're forgetting Highever.  

[X Equestris]

I would imagine that it does. You can't simply separate land from a title. If that is the case,it would make you one of two Teyrns in Ferelden, since Fergus Cousland is alive no matter what.

I imagine that the reason one might be able to get away with making an elf Teyrn is that 1) You just saved the nation, and 2) The monarch can simply decide who to give the fief to when there is an opening, no need to consult the nobility. If you were to be prince/princess-consort, even if the marriage went ahead, the nobles could make your life and the monarch's life a living hell.

[Willowhugger]

I would imagine that it does. You can't simply separate land from a title. If that is the case,it would make you one of two Teyrns in Ferelden, since Fergus Cousland is alive no matter what.

I imagine that the reason one might be able to get away with making an elf Teyrn is that 1) You just saved the nation, and 2) The monarch can simply decide who to give the fief to when there is an opening, no need to consult the nobility. If you were to be prince/princess-consort, even if the marriage went ahead, the nobles could make your life and the monarch's life a living hell.

 

And again, Gwaren is the middle of nowhere in Fereldan.

Basically, just north of Ostagar and that was barbarian country.

[Silfren]

And again, Gwaren is the middle of nowhere in Fereldan.

Basically, just north of Ostagar and that was barbarian country.

 

I thought Gwaren was close to a sea port.  Hardly just north of Ostagar in the middle of nowhere...

 

Edit: Just checked.  It's actually *south* of Ostagar.  I'd thought it was much closer to Amaranthine than that...

[X Equestris]

I thought Gwaren was close to a sea port.  Hardly just north of Ostagar in the middle of nowhere...
 
Edit: Just checked.  It's actually *south* of Ostagar.  I'd thought it was much closer to Amaranthine than that...

Yeah, it's at the end of the Brecilian Passage. It is a port town, but with it being trashed and probably blighted, it would take a lot of reconstruction to make it what it once was.

Granted, you would probably have at least a few nobles sworn to you, but their land is likely just as wrecked as yours is.

[IntoTheDarkness]

I would imagine that it does. You can't simply separate land from a title. If that is the case,it would make you one of two Teyrns in Ferelden, since Fergus Cousland is alive no matter what.

I imagine that the reason one might be able to get away with making an elf Teyrn is that 1) You just saved the nation, and 2) The monarch can simply decide who to give the fief to when there is an opening, no need to consult the nobility. If you were to be prince/princess-consort, even if the marriage went ahead, the nobles could make your life and the monarch's life a living hell.

Isn't it possible to 'demote' the land of Gawren and make it Bann before granted to the elf warden?

 

I can't imagine the nobility accepting the first among equal(teryns) among them being an elf. It seems more likely to me that the land was given with the lowest rank of noble, which would probably be acceptable.

 

if elf Teryn is tolerated, elf prince-consort should be tolerated as well. I'm not talking about who has right to appoint which, but about the nobility's attitude. Alistair didn't name the elf he loved his princess consort due to the nobility; granting teyrn should be no different, IMO.

 

it sucks being teyrn makes no change to the epilogue slides, though xlol

[X Equestris]

Isn't it possible to 'demote' the land of Gawren and make it Bann before granted to the elf warden?
 
I can't imagine the nobility accepting the first among equal(teryns) among them being an elf. It seems more likely to me that the land was given with the lowest rank of noble, which would probably be acceptable.
 
if elf Teryn is tolerated, elf prince-consort should be tolerated as well. I'm not talking about who has right to appoint which, but about the nobility's attitude. Alistair didn't name the elf he loved his princess consort due to the nobility; granting teyrn should be no different, IMO.
 
it sucks being teyrn makes no change to the epilogue slides, though xlol

Whichever monarch grants you Gwaren says that you have all of Loghain's lands and titles. The key difference between an elf Teyrn and an elf consort is that the Teyrn will have much less to do with running the nation than a consort would. Further, any children produced by said consort would be elf-blooded. That likely wouldn't sit well with the nobility.

The only reason the human male noble is able to become prince-consort is because he brings the prestige of the Cousland name, one of the most respected families in the country, and his own status as a member of the nobility to go along with Anora's political savvy. An elf brings none of these things to the table. They have no influence or lineage to call on. It would be much easier to make one a Teyrn.

Remember that Loghain was a commoner before being made Teyrn of Gwaren by Maric, and the Mac Tirs were still subject to sneers from members of the nobility despite Loghain's important role in the rebellion. The elf Warden is in a similar position. They saved the kingdom, just like Loghain did. Of course, the race issue makes it murkier, but one could argue that saving Ferelden from the darkspawn is worth even more than liberating it from Orlesian occupation.

[ShadowLordXII]

Whichever monarch grants you Gwaren says that you have all of Loghain's lands and titles. The key difference between an elf Teyrn and an elf consort is that the Teyrn will have much less to do with running the nation than a consort would. Further, any children produced by said consort would be elf-blooded. That likely wouldn't sit well with the nobility.

The only reason the human male noble is able to become prince-consort is because he brings the prestige of the Cousland name, one of the most respected families in the country, and his own status as a member of the nobility to go along with Anora's political savvy. An elf brings none of these things to the table. They have no influence or lineage to call on. It would be much easier to make one a Teyrn.

Remember that Loghain was a commoner before being made Teyrn of Gwaren by Maric, and the Mac Tirs were still subject to sneers from members of the nobility despite Loghain's important role in the rebellion. The elf Warden is in a similar position. They saved the kingdom, just like Loghain did. Of course, the race issue makes it murkier, but one could argue that saving Ferelden from the darkspawn is worth even more than liberating it from Orlesian occupation.

 

So on that thought, let's address the City Elf boon.

 

If the bannorn can stomach an elf becoming a teryn, then they'd also logically be just as fine with the city elf become arl of denerem, no? Compared to becoming teryn, the "bann of the alienage" boon just sounds like an empty reward. I'd argue that making the city elf arl would be a decent compromise.

 

Also, the irony would be too delicious considering the City elf's origin.

[IntoTheDarkness]

So on that thought, let's address the City Elf boon.

 

If the bannorn can stomach an elf becoming a teryn, then they'd also logically be just as fine with the city elf become arl of denerem, no? Compared to becoming teryn, the "bann of the alienage" boon just sounds like an empty reward. I'd argue that making the city elf arl would be a decent compromise.

 

Also, the irony would be too delicious considering the City elf's origin.

 

Yeah, that's why chose Teryn title as my boon then got baffled when if affected absolutely nothing in the epilogue. Being a chancellor or even a Bann in the Alienage makes your Warden more significant, it seems; though it makes sense chancellor is more influential, it's not a subject of inheritance and can get fired in court schemes any time, doesn't seem to have enough merits. And Bann of the alienage is probably be the lowest and least significant among nobles.

[Elista]

The nobles have accepted the new king or queen. And they are too weak after the Blight to oppose any decision I think, especially when the king or queen, and the Warden, are now seen as heroes and saviors. It is said that the Chancellor loses influence with time passing and so maybe the Tyern will have less influence too, and a hard time dealing with other nobles before Awakening. But he probably doesn't mix often with them, that could explain the absence of any info in the epilogue. Too bad it is not said, however.

[Willowhugger]

Yeah, that's why chose Teryn title as my boon then got baffled when if affected absolutely nothing in the epilogue. Being a chancellor or even a Bann in the Alienage makes your Warden more significant, it seems; though it makes sense chancellor is more influential, it's not a subject of inheritance and can get fired in court schemes any time, doesn't seem to have enough merits. And Bann of the alienage is probably be the lowest and least significant among nobles.

 

Self-rule versus rulership over a bunch of humans?

That seems to make sense to me.

 

Even if both should be mentioned.

The Bann of the Alienage helps the people YOU know and grew up with versus strangers.

[Zana]

Yeah, its a pretty world changing implication for racial discrimination in Ferelden.  Still one can draw some parallels with Awakening if elf Warden is played.  The nobles will abide by the rules as long as they are watched by the crown, but you will have a large chance to end up with a knife in your back (or poison in your drink) the second noone is looking.  In fact, from prespective of nobles, an elf is a great opportunity - the area is devastated and it will take some really unpopular measures to rebuild it (see peasant revolt in Awakening).  The elf will be used as a scrapegoat, and if a convinient accident is to befall them after the unpopular measures has been enacted, whoever comes to replace him/her will have the ground nicely prepared for prosperous growth.

 

Now if the elf survives, then some major changes might occur. Or more likely he/she would be simply viewed as an exception.  Any attempts of elf Teryn to bring up the status of elves in his area will likely cease with Teryn's disappearence (metagaming!) and will likely be reversed by the successor.

[BlazingSpeed]

The Elf teryn probably got hand waved just like the independent circle boon did.

[Willowhugger]

Of course, the big issue is whether you're expected to marry a human or not.

After all, elves only have elves with other elves.

[Drasanil]

Yeah, its a pretty world changing implication for racial discrimination in Ferelden.  Still one can draw some parallels with Awakening if elf Warden is played.  The nobles will abide by the rules as long as they are watched by the crown, but you will have a large chance to end up with a knife in your back (or poison in your drink) the second noone is looking.  In fact, from prespective of nobles, an elf is a great opportunity - the area is devastated and it will take some really unpopular measures to rebuild it (see peasant revolt in Awakening).  The elf will be used as a scrapegoat, and if a convinient accident is to befall them after the unpopular measures has been enacted, whoever comes to replace him/her will have the ground nicely prepared for prosperous growth.

 

Now if the elf survives, then some major changes might occur. Or more likely he/she would be simply viewed as an exception.  Any attempts of elf Teryn to bring up the status of elves in his area will likely cease with Teryn's disappearence (metagaming!) and will likely be reversed by the successor.

 

 

That depends too. I can imagine the nobles sensibly pulling that with a grey warden appointed elf commander. But with the Hero of Ferelden? The entire plot seemed ridiculous, the hero already foiled similar shenanigans while killing the archdemon with his/her other hand. Trying to usurp them [as far as I am concerned] is essentially the sorting out Ferelden's lemmings from the rest of their nobility.

 

--- --- ---

 

Btw, there's some talk about various boons turning out to be rubbish like the Bann of the Alienage, the Dalish Land and the Circle of Magi one, is there any proof to that or is it just speculation?

 

For at least the Bann of the Aliennage part, I don't see the Ferelden nobles being threatened by the title, given it belongs to that 'good elf' and their family and it would actually prove to be useful for all sorts of shenanigans. And all it essentially says is "those elves are a lot better than every other elf, so try to be nice to them." Infact its a round about way of justifying the system, if other elves [read: all of them] were any good, they would be as tolerable as that nice Tabris family.  "Well, no of course not, I'm not murdering these elves because they asked for the right to dig their own latrines, I'm 'best friends' with that one elf everyone thinks is ok. See, I'm a totally awesome dudebro aren't I?"

[Zana]

Circle boon was not allowed to proceed due to Chantry interference (as per developer).  Not positive on other ones.

 

Awakening has a bit of a disconnect between playing a Hero of Ferelden and Orlesian Warden.  I have only used imported characters (I do tend to sacrifice Loghain for AD fight), but both noble's assassination attempt and peasant revolt still play out.  The people of Ferelden really do not learn to respect plot armor!  If you think about it, the number of people attacking you when they have no chance of winning is pretty darn high.  Post AD fight, most nobles will treat your elf as either an extremely lucky (which admittedly they are), and/or as only versed in combat.  So attempts to orchestrate an accident likely would happen regardless.  More than likely fail, but it won't stop them from trying.

 

Developers made sure to make the point moot however.  Any boon that does not change the large scale balance of forces (CoM and possibly Dalish land) is negated by Warden's disappearance.