494 réponses à ce sujet

[dutch_gamer]

@SofaJockey: When you put it that way, then yes it would be financially improbable the ways thing are at the moment; that's why I suggested that Bioware should just scrap multiplayer and instead use the money for that on the single player (i.e. on things like romance) in order to make the game even better (games like Inquisition should always be single player only in my opinion). I know Bioware can't and probably won't ever be able to please everyone, but if maybe they focussed exclusively on single player in this game then maybe they could improve things like romance more, even if only slightly. That's just my suggestion though.
 
P.S. I know that there are some people that do genuinely care about multiplayer, but for me, the single player is what makes RPGs like Inquisition stand the test of time, not the multiplayer. To me, multiplayer is for games like Call of Duty, not Dragon Age.

Resources for multiplayer can't just be transplanted to be used on the single player portion of the game. If there wasn't a multiplayer component the resources that component received wouldn't even have been available in the first place. Not to mention that pouring extra resources into the single player game to increase the amount of romances would more than likely not increase DAI's sales so it would be a huge waste of funds.

[Ina]

They probably would've had to be heavily gated though which I would've been okay with because extra options were extra. Solas for only elves, Cullen would've been replaced with an ungated Blackwall, and a humans only Vivienne would've been fine with me.

 

I'm ok with heavy gating for a couple of companions if it meant less skewed choices. One group getting 3 while others getting 2 is completely fine with me, but right now some of us are getting double which does seems a tad unfair. It doesn't matter that two of the four male LIs available to women are race gated like some have pointed out, it's still 4 options.

 

That said, I can also see why Viv was not made an a LI cos then it would appear as though practically every major female character in DAI is an LI now or was in the past (morrigan, Leliana) implying that all women need to have a romance which is also problematic. I would have prefered one more female companion (maybe a female dwarf blackwall) instead of a 6/3 distribution we have now and then an even 3/3/3 romance option at least for all.

[SofaJockey]

Ehh, that will require scrapping something else... unless we get funding for ballroom co-op.

 

Unless it was DLC:

 

'Dancing with the Orlesians' or 'Strictly Fereldens Dancing'... ?

 

In terms of modes I am expecting a range of popular dances:

(modelled after some medieval favourites)

• The Blushing Nug
• Orlesian Pavane
• Bog Unicorn Bransle
• Red Jenny Pluck Pears
• Picking Up Elfroot
• The Hunting of the Fennec

And other popular dances, such as...

 

[Ryzaki]

I'm ok with heavy gating for a couple of companions if it meant less skewed choices. One group getting 3 while others getting 2 is completely fine with me, but right now some of us are getting double which does seems a tad unfair. It doesn't matter that two of the four male LIs available to women are race gated like some have pointed out, it's still 4 options.

 

That said, I can also see why Viv was not made an a LI cos then it would appear as though practically every major female character in DAI is an LI now or was in the past (morrigan, Leliana) implying that all women need to have a romance which is also problematic. I would have prefered one more female companion (maybe a female dwarf blackwall) instead of a 6/3 distribution we have now and then an even 3/3/3 romance option at least for all.

 

Yep. I'm fine with it for this one game I don't want it to continue past this though. Then hopefully next game s/s romances will have any bonus romances if there are any.

 

Yeah that's one of the reasons I wasn't for it. That could've been avoided really easily though by having more female companions *grumbles* Female Dwarf Blackwall would leave females with a heavily gated LI for their exclusive option and that'd sucked. Bi female Solas gated to elves would've worked if not Vivienne. 

 

I was pretty bleh on them having 8 romances in the first place with that lopsided gender balance.

[BartDude52]

@SardaukarElite: Yeah, I understand. I guess I just simplified things a little too much (it made sense in my head!). It's just that I'm one of those people that usually only cares for single player (especially in RPGs), so when multiplayer was announced for Inquisition I was like, 'Ugh, multiplayer, why?', rather than some people who were more like, 'Yay, multiplayer!', so I usually try to find some way to justify scrapping it (you know, the more I think about it, the more I realise that I'm being way too harsh about the multiplayer. I suppose I'll give it a try eventually as it would probably be a waste of money not to even consider trying an element of the game that Bioware have clearly worked a lot on). Thanks for enlightening me on this subject; I'll try to not mention the multiplayer again (not on this thread, at least).

 

P.S. I'm glad this thread has got a lot more friendly. Makes for a nice change compared to some of all the previous hostility in prior posts.

[SardaukarElite]

Unless it was DLC:

 

'Dancing with the Orlesians' or 'Strictly Fereldens Dancing'... ?

 

Fadedance

My Fair Serah

Singin' in the Breach

Dirty Masquerade

The Sound of Magic

 

Thanks for enlightening me on this subject; I'll try to not mention the multiplayer again (not on this thread, at least).

 

 

It's cool, most people make the assumption at some point.

[Ina]

Yep. I'm fine with it for this one game I don't want it to continue past this though. Then hopefully next game s/s romances will have any bonus romances if there are any.

 

Yeah that's one of the reasons I wasn't for it. That could've been avoided really easily though by having more female companions *grumbles* Female Dwarf Blackwall would leave females with a heavily gated LI for their exclusive option and that'd sucked. Bi female Solas gated to elves would've worked if not Vivienne. 

 

I was pretty bleh on them having 8 romances in the first place with that lopsided gender balance.

 

I know we're just discussing could-have-beens, but if Blackwall was female then there would be no reason to remove Cullen or Solas as an option because one of them likely would have made the cut as a primary LI to make up for one less male LI. I just mentioned fem Blackwall cos fem Dwarves are sorely needed and Solas couldn't be a Dwarf and remain a mage.

 

Anyway, here's hoping equal romance options in future Bioware games. I'd rather have less but equal than more but inequal. LIs are in favor for straight women such as myself, but things could just as easily be the other way round so I'm not all too excited about the 'advantage'.

[Ryzaki]

I know we're just discussing could-have-beens, but if Blackwall was female then there would be no reason to remove Cullen or Solas as an option because one of them likely would have made the cut as a primary LI to make up for one less male LI. I just mentioned fem Blackwall cos fem Dwarves are sorely needed and Solas couldn't be a Dwarf and remain a mage.

 

Anyway, here's hoping equal romance options in future Bioware games. I'd rather have less but equal than more but inequal. LIs are in favor for straight women such as myself, but things could just as easily be the other way round so I'm not all too excited about the 'advantage'.

 

I'm interested in dude Blackwall though I rather we remove Solas as an option than Blackwall.

 

As for female dwarves they're not sorely needed just wanted. Apparently we have female dwarves in our organization anyway.

 

I wouldn't mind if s/s romances hard 2 more romances than me I mean I'd be disappointed but that's just natural. As long as I have 2 options and choice though I'm good.

[Lennard Testarossa]

Am I the only one who actually likes the inequality and the race-gating? To me, it speaks for Bioware putting more emphasis on implementing romances as a naturally arising part of the story, rather than making part of their game a dating sim in which everyone needs to get x options for fairness. If the story has twice as many male companions as female companions, which is perfectly fine, then it is plausible that there would be twice as many variants of this story in which a female inquisitor has a relationship with a male companion than there are variants of this story in which a male inquisitor has a relationship with a female companion. And one would expect that humans and elves in Thedas would have serious reservations about dating dwarfs and Qunari.

 

On a side note: Is it race-gating? Or is it species-gating? Is there actually such a thing as a half-dwarf or a half-Qunari?

[Super Drone]

Am I the only one who actually likes the inequality and the race-gating? To me, it speaks for Bioware putting more emphasis on implementing romances as a naturally arising part of the story, rather than making part of their game a dating sim in which everyone needs to get x options for fairness. If the story has twice as many male companions as female companions, which is perfectly fine, then it is plausible that there would be twice as many variants of this story in which a female inquisitor has a relationship with a male companion than there are variants of this story in which a male inquisitor has a relationship with a female companion. And one would expect that humans and elves in Thedas would have serious reservations about dating dwarfs and Qunari.

 

On a side note: Is it race-gating? Or is it species-gating? Is there actually such a thing as a half-dwarf or a half-Qunari?

 

It sounds close to the arguments for not having LGB romances, or only one option, in previous games. Most people are hetero, so naturally most  (or all) of the Romances should be straight. Ask the LGB players how that line of logic feels.

[Ina]

I'm interested in dude Blackwall though I rather we remove Solas as an option than Blackwall.

 

As for female dwarves they're not sorely needed just wanted. Apparently we have female dwarves in our organization anyway.

 

I wouldn't mind if s/s romances hard 2 more romances than me I mean I'd be disappointed but that's just natural. As long as I have 2 options and choice though I'm good.

 

Well I was just speaking from the perspective of a well rounded group of companions. Solas could be a female dwarf or a qunari or whatever else and someone else could have filled the mage shoes too. Or it could be someone else entirely. My point is that equality would be nice both in terms of LIs and male/female split. The fact we have so many more male companions is possibly why we have ended up with double the options, cos there's just not enough female companions to go around. But who knows what the dev team's intention and reasons were, I can only speculate.

 

 

Am I the only one who actually likes the inequality and the race-gating? To me, it speaks for Bioware putting more emphasis on implementing romances as a naturally arising part of the story, rather than making part of their game a dating sim in which everyone needs to get x options for fairness. If the story has twice as many male companions as female companions, which is perfectly fine, then it is plausible that there would be twice as many variants of this story in which a female inquisitor has a relationship with a male companion than there are variants of this story in which a male inquisitor has a relationship with a female companion. And one would expect that humans and elves in Thedas would have serious reservations about dating dwarfs and Qunari.

 

On a side note: Is it race-gating? Or is it species-gating? Is there actually such a thing as a half-dwarf or a half-Qunari?

 

 

While I can understand this perspective from a realism standpoint, I don't agree it needs to be 'realistic' especially since equal options isn't inherently unrealistic. The trouble is the realism argument is often made by some folks to not support equal representation. Like for example, I've seen people argue since lgbt make a far smaller percentage in the real world, they must also must get far fewer options as a result because it'd just be 'realistic' that way. In the end I'd rather have all fans get access to equal amount of content because it is a game and romance is highly enjoyed by some people and it doesn't hurt to cater to everyone equally.

 

There is such a thing as a half-dwarf I think, they're shorter humans or something. And I believe an elf/dwarf results in a Dwarf. No idea about qunari.

[Super Drone]

 

On a side note: Is it race-gating? Or is it species-gating? Is there actually such a thing as a half-dwarf or a half-Qunari?

 

 

Word of Dev says there are half-dwarves. Juries' out on half-Qunari.

[BartDude52]

@Ina: I'm actually rather conflicted about this as well. While I'd like it if the romance options were more or less equal for everyone, I'd rather not have that exact equality at the expense of having less romanceable characters in total (of course that might mean I might be on the receiving end of the inequality on occasion). In Inquisition, I'd rather they added more romanceable characters to try and make things more equal rather than removing Cullen and Solas as romance options for women just to make things 'equal' and try to satisfy people like me; to me, in order to try and fix a perceived inequality you should be trying to bring the disadvantaged group(s) of people up to the same standard as the advantaged group(s), rather than try to bring the advantaged group(s) down to the lower standard that the disadvantaged group(s) are currently at. To me, removing Cullen and Solas as romance options would only be diminishing the quality of the game, not improving it (it's always better to have more content in a game rather than less).  

 

I get that Bioware aren't going to change the romance options now but, in the hypothetical situation that they did, that's what I personally would prefer that they did if they could.

[SardaukarElite]

Am I the only one who actually likes the inequality and the race-gating?

 

I actually prefer them being slightly unbalanced because symmetry seems too perfect to me and breaks the illusion a bit. Generally I think they should aspire to be balanced but have a tolerance for story decisions. I doubt there often is a good story reason for picking one romance over another though, unless one isn't working.

 

 

On a side note: Is it race-gating? Or is it species-gating? Is there actually such a thing as a half-dwarf or a half-Qunari?

 

In game they're called races. The bits of biology I picked up at a party makes me think they're less diverse than different species (interbreeding) but more diverse than different flavours of humans. It's not a discussion that usually goes well though.

[Ryzaki]

Well I was just speaking from the perspective of a well rounded group of companions. Solas could be a female dwarf or a qunari or whatever else and someone else could have filled the mage shoes too. Or it could be someone else entirely. My point is that equality would be nice both in terms of LIs and male/female split. The fact we have so many more male companions is possibly why we have ended up with double the options, cos there's just not enough female companions to go around. But who knows what the dev team's intention and reasons were, I can only speculate.

 

Ah okay. I think him being elf is probably significant seeing as he'll only romance other elves so I wanted him to stay the same race. But yeah all the male comps is meh. And we're all just speculating it's fun XD

[Super Drone]

In game they're called races. The bits of biology I picked up at a party makes me think they're less diverse than different species (interbreeding) but more diverse than different flavours of humans. It's not a discussion that usually goes well though.

 

People that try to apply science to fantasy settings are funny.

 

20 years of Dungeons and Dragons makes you not sweat little things like that, I guess.

[SofaJockey]

People that try to apply science to fantasy settings are funny.

 

Agreed - let's just have a dance simulator...

(ok I'll drop this subject now, promise !! )

 

[Ina]

@Ina: I'm actually rather conflicted about this as well. While I'd like it if the romance options were more or less equal for everyone, I'd rather not have that exact equality at the expense of having less romanceable characters in total (of course that might mean I might be on the receiving end of the inequality on occasion). In Inquisition, I'd rather they added more romanceable characters to try and make things more equal rather than removing Cullen and Solas as romance options for women just to make things 'equal' and try to satisfy people like me; to me, in order to try and fix a perceived inequality you should be trying to bring the disadvantaged group(s) of people up to the same standard as the advantaged group(s), rather than try to bring the advantaged group(s) down to the lower standard that the disadvantaged group(s) are currently at. To me, removing Cullen and Solas as romance options would only be diminishing the quality of the game, not improving it (it's always better to have more content in a game rather than less).  

 

I get that Bioware aren't going to change the romance options now but, in the hypothetical situation that they did, that's what I personally would prefer that they did if they could.

 

Yeah it's true that they should be thinking of adding to achieve equality than removing, but the reality is they're unlikely to have at least 4 options for each sexuality because that would be like at 10 romanceable companions or more Bi companions. Given that 8 is probably the number they could work with, I'd have liked for one of the male LIs to be replaced with a female and for a couple more LIs to be bi, so the result is not so heavily skewed. I get that this means straight females now getting 1 less option, an option fans are likely very attached to, but I feel it could have been a suitable compromise. 4 vs 2 is just too skewed for my taste even if I'm the sexuality that benefits from it. 3 vs 2 would have been better and could have been both realistic and less unfair.

 

 

Ah okay. I think him being elf is probably significant seeing as he'll only romance other elves so I wanted him to stay the same race. But yeah all the male comps is meh. And we're all just speculating it's fun XD

 

 

Actually I found it very surprising Solas was elf gated. From all the talk about how he doesn't like being 'just an elf' I was under the impression he extended that to his romantic partners as well. Nothing wrong if he doesn't, I was just surprised. Actually I'm quite happy with all LIs even if I personally don't find them all attractive (I'm extremely picky lol) from what we know so far cos I'm sure I can come with a character that will heh.

[Pasquale1234]

To use your own analogy, if I know that if I go out with Kid A I am definitely going to get less candy than him for the same amount of effort, why would I do that when I can - in effect - go to another neighbourhood and get my candy there? Especially if they're giving me more candy for my effort? Its not about anyone being 'spoiled' - I don't owe BioWare my money or loyalty, nor any other company. They want me to buy their game? They need to make me believe that its worth my money.
When people say "You can get that content you want elsewhere", that says to me that maybe my money is, indeed, better spent elsewhere.

Romance content is entirely optional and a fairly small part of the game.

That said, everyone has preferences, likes, and dislikes, and we all need to make our purchase decisions accordingly.

Of course, it's much easier to find plenty of other attractive options if you are a member of a privileged group whose preferences are overwhelmingly catered to.
 

The other part of my answer is that this 'you've always had 2 options' thing . . . its a skewed reasoning. In every other way, games over the years have grown in content.

DAI offers more playable race choices than any previous game in the series. It also has a much bigger world with more to explore, alliances and influence to build, etc. It certainly looks to me like DAI will have a wider variety of content than previous DA games.
 

In DA:O there were four romance options, and two of them were available to straight men. That's fifty percent.
In DA 2 almost everyone was bisexual (was Sebastien? I can't recall, I didn't care for him much.) which means that straight males had two of five romances, which is fourty percent.
In DA:I, we get two romances of a potential eight. That's a fairly tiny twenty-five percent of the options being open to us.
You see, the games are getting bigger - they aren't stagnant. Our 2 options represents a proportionally much smaller number of options relative to the greater picture than it did in the other games.

That's one way of "doing the math".

Another way is to say that DA2 had 100% of the m/f romance options that DAO offered, and that DAI will also offer 100% of the m/f romance options available in both DAO and DA2. Some parts of the game grew in content, while others remained the same.
 

You made the choice to buy the game. Don't try to hold others accountable for that.
Your vitriol is unnecessary and detracts from any point you might have. It adds nothing to the conversation. I believe I addressed most of your point, for my part, above this already in my previous post. If you'd like to talk more about this then I'd be happy to, yeah? But not when you're hurling insults and tainting what has, for a few pages now, been a pretty civil discussion. I get that people get passionate about this, and that's understandable. However, I'm not going to engage someone who is bringing bad manners to a table where, for the first time that I've seen at least, everyone is being fairly decent and open to discussion.

Is it just me, or do remarks like this sound remarkably like the tone argument ?

[SardaukarElite]

People that try to apply science to fantasy settings are funny.

 

People who dismiss other people's interests are boring.

[Super Drone]

People who dismiss other people's interests are boring.

 

People who are interested weird, often contradictory minutia that likely weren't ever a consideration of the developers or writer's are destined to talk about it endlessly on internet boards to no avail. We all have our flaws.

[Mihura]

I don't understand what you mean by this. 

 

As an example, Anders had a homosexual experience with Karl when he was at the Ferelden Circle. This was never brought up in DAA, but was still part of his life experience. In DAA, Anders mostly seemed interested in women and not with men. The reason for this could be due to his experience with Karl still being fresh to him. Hence his life experience, which you never once heard about in DAA, would have colored how he acted in DAA.

 

There are tons of things that we, the player, are never privy to in game. Or even in Novels. A lot of time something happened in a characters past that is never once brought up or discussed, but is still a thing that happened and colors the reason that characters acts a specific way in a specific situation. Writers, for video games or otherwise, do this all the time.

 

Actually I am not talking about that, I agree with you but Anders is a good example of what I am saying.
 

If your Hawke is female he will not say that Karl was his lover. What I meant is that there this heteronormative cloud even when it comes to characters that are not straight, that somehow change their experience base on your character.

For example if you do not romance Merril, her and Caver seems to like each other. If you do not romance Isabela, her and Fenris seem to like each other. If you do not romance Sebastian, he and Bethany seem to like each other. Varric has a past female lover, Aveline a past male husband and them other future one... and so on. I really do not remember important NPCs or companions in game that have current or past lovers, maybe Leliana is the only one if I think hard and even then, it is more implied as a manipulative and toxic relationship than anything else. Oh wait, Hespia and Branka lol it is even worse.

[Ina]

Actually I am not talking about that, I agree with you but Anders is a good example of what I am saying.
 

If your Hawke is female he will not say that Karl was his lover. What I meant is that there this heteronormative cloud even when it comes to characters that are not straight, that somehow change their experience base on your character.

For example if you do not romance Merril, her and Caver seems to like each other. If you do not romance Isabela, her and Fenris seem to like each other. If you do not romance Sebastian, he and Bethany seem to like each other. Varric has a past female lover, Aveline a past male husband and them other future one... and so on. I really do not remember important NPCs or companions in game that have current or past lovers, maybe Leliana is the only one if I think hard and even then, it is more implied as a manipulative and toxic relationship than anything else. Oh wait, Hespia and Branka lol it is even worse.

 

Well there are a few...Celene is in a relationship with a female elf, Herren & Wade were confirmed by David Gaider to be a couple, the viscount's son (?) in DA2 was implied to be gay, Isabela clearly has had past female lovers, Leli flirts with Morrigan in a banter and Zev mentions one guy if you're critically low on his approval plus it's implied he was in a relationship with Taliesien (or however you spell it). But yes, it's not obvious or explicit which really bothers me. It feels like some of the companions other than Anders/Isa/Leli were just bi to justify the romance and even with these it wasn't always handled well or they always showed preference for the opp gender every time. I understand that we don't know everything about the companions and they could have had past relationships or whatever, but as long as they continue to show hetero couples on screen and leave the ss couples to the imagination, there's an issue. I hope DAI changes this. I'd love to see our lgbt companions get together with a ss npc/companion. In fact I'd like one of the bi characters get into a ss relationship just to show they aren't bi just to fill a quota.

[Ryzaki]

Actually I found it very surprising Solas was elf gated. From all the talk about how he doesn't like being 'just an elf' I was under the impression he extended that to his romantic partners as well. Nothing wrong if he doesn't, I was just surprised. Actually I'm quite happy with all LIs even if I personally don't find them all attractive (I'm extremely picky lol) from what we know so far cos I'm sure I can come with a character that will heh.

 

I thought for sure he would be the bi gated option to match Vivi. Boy was in for a shock.

 

The LI I find most attractive is Dorian. silly mustache included.

[CuriousArtemis]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the situation. It's difficult because not only am I incredibly disappointed by my options, but the way in which those options were communicated to us all has been pretty unfortunate. So it's hard to set that aspect of the situation aside, but I'll try...

 

So I think if they had stuck with the 2/2/2 scenario that they were working with a little over a year ago then I still would've been unhappy but I wouldn't have had much reason to complain. (Sure, I could make the argument that I don't like who was assigned what sexuality, but that's getting into the minutiae.)

 

It's the adding on of the two straight female options that kind of messes things up (which I think is what a lot of people are feeling frustrated about here).

 

They had extra time, so they wanted to give us a few more romances. That's really awesome of them!

 

They were so focused on fairness initially, though, so I wonder why they threw that to the wind?

 

If time and money was an issue (and that is the reason, we're told, why Solas and Cullen are straight and race-gated, even if the race-gating has been worked into the storyline), then why give us two straight romances? Why not one bi romance?

 

A bi elf-only Solas, and no Cullen at all, would have hurt a lot less, I think.

 

I would add that, alternatively, we could have had a bi Vivienne instead of Solas, but there are allegedly story reasons as to why Vivienne is not a romance option. Same with Varric.

 

Or bi human- and elf-only Cullen, no Solas. I seriously doubt there are major differences between the elf and human romances; my guess would be that they are both allowed because they are about the same height, so that's less work in terms of cinematics. It just happens to match up with Cullen's past history of being interested in both Surana and Amell. 

 

Only additional cost in terms of time and money with making one bisexual extra option, as opposed to two straight options, would be bringing in the male voice actors and also any cinematic issues (making the models mash up right when hugging, kissing, etc. takes place).

 

My conclusion to all of this would be... if making one bi option was too time-consuming and cost preventative, then there should have been no extra love interests at all!

 

EDIT: A couple more thoughts.

 

1. I hope not to see anymore complaints about the number of options for straight men. Every time I read a complaint like that my eyes get huge and I just shake my head.

 

2. I hope next go-around they return to all bi love interests. I think it has (understandably) meant a LOT to some gamers to have Sera and Dorian. So that has been massive, and I tip my hat to the team But it sure has also caused a lot of disappointment and heartache. I think the former outweighs the latter at present, but for DA4, it would be nice to go back to all bi... hopefully by then seeing a gay character in a video game won't be such an earth-shattering event. Gay and lesbian characters can populate the surrounding world as NPCs (and have their sexuality be obvious and perfectly natural and part of the storyline). That way we'd have inclusion as well as choice.

 

Just some thoughts ^^