494 réponses à ce sujet

[Ina]

Its been a long time since I've played the game, and I admittedly didn't like Zevran much, so I can't remember how this played out.

But is it at all possible that Zevran himself might have misconceptions about his own orientation, etc.? Surely the rather abusive life he suffered through could do a lot to mess up a person's feelings, and he may not even realize that - even without the Crows - he'd still be attracted to men. Is that a possibility, or is that precluded by something else he says/does?

 

This is entirely possible and I don't personally take issue with that. I just dislike why it needed to be put in game at all given how such stereotypes almost always have a negative impact. Not to mention that it isn't unheard of for non-heterosexuality to be portrayed in such a way. I'm just saying could it not have been left out and is there a pressing reason to use such tropes? And remember that Zev was gay/bi male players sole option, it just seems unfair to not only make them feel as if they're second choice (behind women) but also that his attraction to their male PC is due to conditioning alone.

 

It was the first game (after jade Empire, was it?) to include a ss male romance, so I forgive a lot of these mistakes but just pointing it out as something to possibly avoid in the future. Just to be clear I'm not hating as I think BW works to try to be fair as much as possible, but I'm just trying to provide what I feel is a constructive criticism for a past game.

[daveliam]

 

It was the first game (after jade Empire, was it?) to include a ss male romance, so I forgive a lot of these mistakes but just pointing it out as something to possibly avoid in the future. Just to be clear I'm not hating as I think BW works to try to be fair as much as possible, but I'm just trying to provide what I feel is a constructive criticism for a past game.

 

Nice point.  Zev was only the second m/m option ever, so it might have been a bit clunky because it was a fairly new feature.

[OptionFour]

This is entirely possible and I don't personally take issue with that. I just dislike why it needed to be put in game at all given how such stereotypes almost always have a negative impact. Not to mention that it isn't unheard of for non-heterosexuality to be portrayed in such a way. I'm just saying could it not have been left out and is there a pressing reason to use such tropes? And remember that Zev was gay/bi male players sole option, it just seems unfair to not only make them feel as if they're second choice (behind women) but also that his attraction to their male PC is due to conditioning alone.

 

It was the first game (after jade Empire, was it?) to include a ss male romance, so I forgive a lot of these mistakes but just pointing it out as something to possibly avoid in the future. Just to be clear I'm not hating as I think BW works to try to be fair as much as possible, but I'm just trying to provide what I feel is a constructive criticism for a past game.

 

Aww, I see.

I can see how it would be problematic given the dearth of other options in that case. In a situation where over the course of the franchise there have been many characters of that orientation, all with varying experiences and view points, having one in that position would not be problematic. But that was not the situation when Zevran was originally presented. Which is to say, if its just one drop in the bucket then its probably fine. But if its the first drop in the bucket then it will rightfully be scrutinized more thoroughly.

[Super Drone]

...is it really so hard to show a bit of rationality?

 

Many people who believe that non-heterosexuality is a sin/ abnormal/ wrong like to cling to the belief that science can't prove non-heterosexuality is an inborn trait and use it to condemn non-heterosexuals or encourage them to "cure" themselves.

 

In case you weren't aware.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

Many people who believe that non-heterosexuality is a sin/ abnormal/ wrong like to cling to the belief that science can't prove non-heterosexuality is an inborn trait and use it to condemn non-heterosexuals or encourage them to "cure" themselves.

 

In case you weren't aware.

This tangent should be dropped and fast. 

[Steelcan]

Its been a long time since I've played the game, and I admittedly didn't like Zevran much, so I can't remember how this played out.

But is it at all possible that Zevran himself might have misconceptions about his own orientation, etc.? Surely the rather abusive life he suffered through could do a lot to mess up a person's feelings, and he may not even realize that - even without the Crows - he'd still be attracted to men. Is that a possibility, or is that precluded by something else he says/does?

he's just into women more, why is that so hard to grasp?

[daveliam]

he's just into women more, why is that so hard to grasp?

 

I'm  not sure if you don't understand the question and, therefore, your response is a bit off.  Or possibly, you are just trying to be dismissive and missed the mark.

 

The conversation isn't about the fact that Zev likes women better.  Everyone agrees on that.  The conversation was about the suggestion that Zev was only bisexual because of his Crow training.  The person who you were responding to was suggesting that the character (versus the author) might think that his s/s attraction is just conditioning.  So.....your response isn't actually relevant to his/her point, I think.

[Steelcan]

I'm  not sure if you don't understand the question and, therefore, your response is a bit off.  Or possibly, you are just trying to be dismissive and missed the mark.

 

The conversation isn't about the fact that Zev likes women better.  Everyone agrees on that.  The conversation was about the suggestion that Zev was only bisexual because of his Crow training.  The person who you were responding to was suggesting that the character (versus the author) might think that his s/s attraction is just conditioning.  So.....your response isn't actually relevant to his/her point, I think.

I think the poster is overthinking it

[RevilFox]

I think the poster is overthinking it

Overthinking it in the sense that Zev doesn't give any indication that his bisexuality is because of his training, or overthinking it in the sense that it shouldn't matter why Zev is bisexual?

[aTigerslunch]

Jade Empire did have s/s but wasn't the first. FallOut2 was the first. A man could flirt with a certain guy and end up being shotgunned wedded if not able to convince the father on being a doctor or something similar. Their is a female/female as well in similar case.

[daveliam]

Jade Empire did have s/s but wasn't the first. FallOut2 was the first. A man could flirt with a certain guy and end up being shotgunned wedded if not able to convince the father on being a doctor or something similar. The female in same setting for a woman as well.

 

I think that people were talking about just in Bioware games, no?  Fallout 2 was BlackIsle.

[aTigerslunch]

A lot of the creators of Fallout 2 is in Bioware, some in Obsidian though?   It is Black Isle, and Jade Empire is Bioware, in this case, that would be true then.

[boissiere]

I'm just sad because I will not be able to romance Lelianna or Morrigan... (Especially Lelliana because I find that Morrigan's new face is worse than before, sorry)

[10K]

I'm glad it is this way, it's a bit more realistic. Why must everyone have the same amount of love interests? The inquisitor is putting together a team of people, that's the team and each teammate have their preferences. Does everything have to be so symmetric and fair? It's much interesting this way and feels right. Thank goodness they didn't make everyone bisexual, that was just completely idiotic in DA2. No one had preferences, which just felt unrealistic. I understand it's a videogame, but preferences can add depth to a character.

 

So let's not make everyone in the universe bisexual just to give fans more romance options, that's just dumb. Even though I dislike most everything BW does, this one thing here was actually a nice decision. I would hate to see another character's sexuality re-written because the fans need more romance options. Anders anyone       

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

So let's not make everyone in the universe bisexual just to give fans more romance options, that's just dumb. Even though I dislike most everything BW does, this one thing here was actually a nice decision. I would hate to see another character's sexuality re-written because the fans need more romance options. Anders anyone 

Im not sure why your on here tbh if you really dislike everything Bioware does, & ive seen you post about how your getting TW3 since Inquisition will suck in your opinion, seems weird to me that someone who hates Bioware is interested in using their forums so much. Anders was written as bisexual in Awakening too btw

[9TailsFox]

Im not sure why your on here tbh if you really dislike everything Bioware does, & ive seen you post about how your getting TW3 since Inquisition will suck in your opinion, seems weird to me that someone who hates Bioware is interested in using their forums so much. Anders was written as bisexual in Awakening too btw

Maybe he liked DA:O it was great. And what we see now Bioware games are worse and worse than before. I still like them because there is not much to pick from. And Witcher quality getting better and better and not just graphics. And cdprojectred attitude towards fans is great. And BioWare: We Want Call Of Duty's Audience. DA becoming less and less, game I loved.

http://www.nowgamer....s_audience.html

[SirGladiator]

Not everyone has the ability to grasp that not defining a character is not the same as saying they're bisexual.  The LIs should never be defined, there's only a few of them and their definition should be left entirely to the player, like it was in DA2, and it is in most similar modern games.  If you feel that character X should be defined a certain way, you're free to do that in your game, and so long as you aren't interested in imposing your views on others, you'll be 100% happy with it.  The few small-minded folks who can't grasp that, and basically take the attitude, for example, 'I can't stand the thought of Cassandra 'ever' being romanced by a woman in somebody else's game, even though it'll never happen in mine, so I want them to take that choice away from other people' are the ones in the wrong on this issue, as player choice always makes the game more fun, and if you can have the characters be exactly the way you want them to be, why can't everybody else have that same ability and enjoyment?  It's a really simple concept, most folks can understand it which is why most games these days go the DA2 route, most everyone understands it's more fun when everybody gets what they want instead of just some people.  Hopefully over time more people will figure it out, it's really not hard .

[RevilFox]

Not everyone has the ability to grasp that not defining a character is not the same as saying they're bisexual.  The LIs should never be defined, there's only a few of them and their definition should be left entirely to the player, like it was in DA2, and it is in most similar modern games.  If you feel that character X should be defined a certain way, you're free to do that in your game, and so long as you aren't interested in imposing your views on others, you'll be 100% happy with it.  The few small-minded folks who can't grasp that, and basically take the attitude, for example, 'I can't stand the thought of Cassandra 'ever' being romanced by a woman in somebody else's game, even though it'll never happen in mine, so I want them to take that choice away from other people' are the ones in the wrong on this issue, as player choice always makes the game more fun, and if you can have the characters be exactly the way you want them to be, why can't everybody else have that same ability and enjoyment?  It's a really simple concept, most folks can understand it which is why most games these days go the DA2 route, most everyone understands it's more fun when everybody gets what they want instead of just some people.  Hopefully over time more people will figure it out, it's really not hard .

 

If the people who don't want everyone to be Bisexual had the opinion you're arguing against, I would agree with you. But there are people, like myself, who would like to have characters that are deep, nuanced, logical, and interesting that believe your sexual orientation matters in shaping the person you will become. Which isn't to say people like me don't want representation for everyone.

[aTigerslunch]

I like deeply made characters and I dont think Bioware is worse and worse. Inquisition looks fantastic. TW3 does look interesting but for CDprojekt to get my attention better is if they went with a CC.

When making a single character with specific gender, it is actually very easy to write for. Its easier on model designing, no variation at all. I do think they work hard, but not as hard when writing a story that is open character, player choice, and modeling more designs of those choices. Im not saying it isnt easy to begin with, it is easier than the multiple choices. I written stories based on certain characters that took lot less time than the new current which has so many variables, I have to go back and recheck things even more than previous stated one.

[AlexiaRevan]

 

But there are people, like myself, who would like to have characters that are deep, nuanced, logical, and interesting that believe your sexual orientation matters in shaping the person you will become. 

Hum.................so if you change a charachter orientation..it will go wonker? 

I disagree . I don't value a charachter cose he is GAY....I value a charachter cose he is deep . His orientation is just a plus . For exemple , a charachter will still suck if he has flaw that get on my nerve...and this said charachter won't become beautiful..just cose he is a Lesbian that I can romance . Take Anders for exemple : He wont be any greater or more awesome or more sexy , or more meangful if he become a hetero dude . He still be whinie and warming the bunch . 

And again , it is a matter of taste . Some will find X charachter deep..while others will find him childish . I don't believe orientation of said charachter play that huge of a role in their personality . It may add more if said writer want to impact on the charachter by adding tie like children , a spouse...family drama and religion . But as a person? I think it play a minor role at best . 

 

Some peoples complained that the cast of DA2..didn't have deeep peoples . And that cose everyone was bi . I liked some..I hated some....I loved some . So personal taste.....in the end I guess . 

[Melca36]

Not everyone has the ability to grasp that not defining a character is not the same as saying they're bisexual.  The LIs should never be defined, there's only a few of them and their definition should be left entirely to the player, like it was in DA2, and it is in most similar modern games.  If you feel that character X should be defined a certain way, you're free to do that in your game, and so long as you aren't interested in imposing your views on others, you'll be 100% happy with it.  The few small-minded folks who can't grasp that, and basically take the attitude, for example, 'I can't stand the thought of Cassandra 'ever' being romanced by a woman in somebody else's game, even though it'll never happen in mine, so I want them to take that choice away from other people' are the ones in the wrong on this issue, as player choice always makes the game more fun, and if you can have the characters be exactly the way you want them to be, why can't everybody else have that same ability and enjoyment?  It's a really simple concept, most folks can understand it which is why most games these days go the DA2 route, most everyone understands it's more fun when everybody gets what they want instead of just some people.  Hopefully over time more people will figure it out, it's really not hard .

 

 

While yes the DA2 route is fun. I agree with that.   Some of us want the characters to be more unique and defined than what they were in DA2. And thats what we're getting in Inquisition.   I will play them all. I will romance them all. My sexuality DOES NOT define how I play games.   I have no issues romancing males with males, females with females as well as the regular old female/male.

 

The writers have a right to write the characters how they see fit.     They do not owe us anything.

[RevilFox]

Hum.................so if you change a charachter orientation..it will go wonker? 

I disagree . I don't value a charachter cose he is GAY....I value a charachter cose he is deep . His orientation is just a plus . For exemple , a charachter will still suck if he has flaw that get on my nerve...and this said charachter won't become beautiful..just cose he is a Lesbian that I can romance . Take Anders for exemple : He wont be any greater or more awesome or more sexy , or more meangful if he become a hetero dude . He still be whinie and warming the bunch . 

And again , it is a matter of taste . Some will find X charachter deep..while others will find him childish . I don't believe orientation of said charachter play that huge of a role in their personality . It may add more if said writer want to impact on the charachter by adding tie like children , a spouse...family drama and religion . But as a person? I think it play a minor role at best . 

 

Some peoples complained that the cast of DA2..didn't have deeep peoples . And that cose everyone was bi . I liked some..I hated some....I loved some . So personal taste.....in the end I guess . 

I'm slightly confused as to what your point it. Are you arguing that a person's sexual orientation has no factor in determining a person's personality? 

[AlexiaRevan]

Not that it doesn't . But it doesn't play a major part but a small one . Because your post came up (and I may have misunderstood)...that a charachter can only be deep..if they have a set orientation . While I believe , that a charachter can be well written and deep and everything..not because of his orientation but because he is well written . The orientation is just a plus to me . 

When I fall in love with a charachter , I fall in love with his personalitee . Not cose he is gay or hetero or watever . To me , the orientation only come after Im totaly in luv and a lost cause 

And I said , it can play an impact (orientation) if a writer want to impact on the past of said charachter . Like add tie , family drama , religion belief and such . And yes they are part of one personality . But the base of your personality..isn't set in stone cose of your orientation . At least , I don't believe so . 

A person is such and such not cose he is gay . His orientation may have shaped some part of it..but deep down....as a whole being...it isn't what he really is . He is this and that....plus he is gay .

I don't know if this coming as more clearer *franch speaker here* so doing my best . 

[Uprising]

Seriously, DA is not a dating sim. Stop acting like spoiled childs, it's ridiculous.