494 réponses à ce sujet

[veeia]

Its been a long time since I've played the game, and I admittedly didn't like Zevran much, so I can't remember how this played out.

But is it at all possible that Zevran himself might have misconceptions about his own orientation, etc.? Surely the rather abusive life he suffered through could do a lot to mess up a person's feelings, and he may not even realize that - even without the Crows - he'd still be attracted to men. Is that a possibility, or is that precluded by something else he says/does?

 

You can headcanon this, sure, but it's not on the screen as part of his m/m arc. If he really had conflicted feelings about that, as his dialogues might suggest, you'd want it to be addressed....otherwise it does kind of leave the relationship in a weird place because it's not resolved and requires you to infer a lot of things. Like, if Zevran has lingering shame/confusion about m/m attraction because of his past....wouldn't you, as someone romancing him, want to have the dialogue options to talk to him about that? Otherwise, esp given the position of power you have over him, it would feel uncomfortable. 

 

Personally, I'd just be happy if none of the bisexual romances this time have a past history of sexual abuse. And I say this as a bisexual with a history of abuse who adoooores Isa/Zev, lmao, but there is something uncomfortable in the similarities between Zev & Isabela and how their romantic interactions with the Warden play out and how the narrative treats them, as well as the prevalence of the idea of abuse "causing" bisexuality in general media. 

[Grieving Natashina]

Seriously, DA is not a dating sim. Stop acting like spoiled childs, it's ridiculous.

Well, thanks for bumping the thread.  

 

Here's a tip: We know that.  I think some folks like Maria, who's been on the forums for 10 years, would be extremely rich people if they had a nickle for every time they've heard the words, "X BioWare game isn't a dating sim.  Stop asking for the options you'd like to see."

 

It comes across sounding much like, "Well, I already have what I want from the game, so why should others ask for anything?  I'm happy, why aren't they?" 

 

If you feel it's so childish to talk about suggestions for romances down the road, then why don't you save yourself the stress and frustration and hit up other threads?  There is a lot of topics that have nothing to do with romance.  

[RevilFox]

Not that it doesn't . But it doesn't play a major part but a small one . Because your post came up (and I may have misunderstood)...that a charachter can only be deep..if they have a set orientation . While I believe , that a charachter can be well written and deep and everything..not because of his orientation but because he is well written . The orientation is just a plus to me . 

When I fall in love with a charachter , I fall in love with his personalitee . Not cose he is gay or hetero or watever . To me , the orientation only come after Im totaly in luv and a lost cause 

And I said , it can play an impact (orientation) if a writer want to impact on the past of said charachter . Like add tie , family drama , religion belief and such . And yes they are part of one personality . But the base of your personality..isn't set in stone cose of your orientation . At least , I don't believe so . 

A person is such and such not cose he is gay . His orientation may have shaped some part of it..but deep down....as a whole being...it isn't what he really is . He is this and that....plus he is gay .

I don't know if this coming as more clearer *franch speaker here* so doing my best . 

 

This was much more clear, thanks. 

 

To be clear on my point, however, I'm not saying that your sexual orientation defines you as a person. I'm saying that your sexual orientation colors the experiences you have, and the experiences you have and how you react to them are what define you as a person. A straight white male is not going to have the same experiences as a gay white male. The situations he finds himself in are going to be different, and he's going to be presented with different choices as a result. Race and Religion will also affect who you are as a person in the same way.

 

Bisexual characters can be deep and nuanced. But if you limit yourself to only making characters that are bisexual, then you are cutting yourself off from having a character that has had uniquely straight, gay, pansexual, ambiguous, etc. experiences. 

[Uprising]

I can see complaints everywhere. "oh they got more candies than me, thats so unfair : ("
The magic of forums makes possible to post even in topics you dont support, isnt it magnificent ?

Maybe the devs should make a customisable character for you to create, he'll be empty and superficial, but making him bangable will make you happy.

I dont know your folks, and I dont care about them being here since 1800s. A RPG is a RPG, a Dating Sim is not. I didnt get Varric. Do I cry because he is not available ? No. I'm not selfish, and I'm glad the dev's decisions are not based on fans exigences in a minor aspect of the game.

Suggestions ? Where ? All I see are posts about what they want or math about who gets more options. So yeah, that is ridiculous. Here is a tip : Grow up, stop crying.

[AlexiaRevan]

 

 

This was much more clear, thanks.



To be clear on my point, however, I'm not saying that your sexual orientation defines you as a person. I'm saying that your sexual orientation colors the experiences you have, and the experiences you have and how you react to them are what define you as a person. A straight white male is not going to have the same experiences as a gay white male. The situations he finds himself in are going to be different, and he's going to be presented with different choices as a result. Race and Religion will also affect who you are as a person in the same way.



Bisexual characters can be deep and nuanced. But if you limit yourself to only making characters that are bisexual, then you are cutting yourself off from having a character that has had uniquely straight, gay, pansexual, ambiguous, etc. experiences.

No I get it . But I still don't agree . As I said , yes a gay guy past can shape and change how he react to something that a hetero dude would react differently . But it's not the core of who you are . 

In real life , it would show more I guess because of how our society like to put label , hate , stigma , bad experience and all . But in a world like Thedas where your orientation isn't frowned upon , while they would frown upon you loving a mage or an elf . Does that still stick ? 

Let me ask you this : If you take a man from real life , who has to face prejudice , racism , homophobia , hate..all the crap . 

And then you take a men who's only sin is being born as an city elf . Both are gay , and both will be given the same guy to romance . And both will be given the same set of reply to choose from . Do you really believe , they will have the same reply ? 

 

I'm agreeing with you actually on that , yes bad stuff shape us and make us change certain point of view . But in a world like Thedas , where the stigma we face in real life..is almost inexistant . But there are stuff in Thedas we will never face (being castless , elf , slavery , mage..etc) . 

I think that , change how we perceive a charachter . For we are seeing them with eyes that have a different experience .

 

I think a writer job is to make a charachter deep and complex , no matter their orientation . And I do not like the 'orientation must be set in stone' because often when that happen......the writer its like , they put the charachter in a box or a profile . And if they don't..they have more liberty..and who know...what that guy with a moustache gonna end up to be in the end ? 

I just find it more limited in a way . And Often...they start getting closer to stereotype..which can be good . But I personally like to stay away from those...cose as individuals , we are soo differents that streotype..is a hindrance in the end . 

 

Thanx for your reply

[aTigerslunch]

Actually, its easier to write characters with set sexualities than those that are not set. Its easier to model and animate set sexualities than non-set.

[Grieving Natashina]

Actually, its easier to write characters with set sexualities than those that are not set. Its easier to model and animate set sexualities than non-set.

Ow.  I was nodding so hard at this I think I have a minor case of whiplash.      I hadn't thought about the animation aspect, but I had thought the same about the writing.  I think you've nailed it on both counts.

[karushna5]

I would like the idea if "These are the names of Core romances there may be more" before announcing the characters, then when we do meet them, we can get excited for them instead of annoyed or strung out. Or announcing it all at once? Or consistently.

 

I don't mind all Bi, I just want them to admit an all Bi LI cast. As in they mention guys and girls, and those who are not very experienced, make it complicit that they like both. Anders, Fenris, and Merrill, are all ambiguous, which I feel is disingenuous. I would prefer Bisexuality over playersexuality any day of the week.

[SofaJockey]

Seriously, DA is not a dating sim. Stop acting like spoiled childs, it's ridiculous.

 

DA may not be a full-blown dating sim, but the romance elements, which can of course be completely bypassed

are an important part of the game to many people, myself included.

 

It's not the most central part of the game, but it is a significant part of the characters' interactions.

 

 

Given its inclusion, it is important that it be an authentic experience for participants.

BioWare's authenticity has improved over time, leading the industry, even if we are not 100% of the way there yet.

 

Whilst I can certainly understand @Uprising's view that participants on the BioWare forum are over-thinking this,

the romance subject certainly has more discussion room whilst waiting for the game to release than what dagger do you like?

 

I'm really pleased that BioWare are making romance options and orientation choices available for as many people as possible.

It's practically not possible to cater for every variation equally at present because of the number of permutations required/VA work/animation cost, but I do support people who wish to make that point to make it and keep on making it.

 

That in-game straight females get the most options on this occasion is not a basis in my opinion for straight males to act hard done to.

Straight males get the same number of options as ever and as a demographic they have not had a bad run.

 

For people wishing to have more romances, they can always choose to role-play outside of their gender and orientation, as I do.

No-one is forced to do that, but the option exists, just as people have the option to play badass characters or rogues or dwarves.

 

I actually think we're in a pretty good place with DAI as I see it.

[9TailsFox]

Seriously, DA is not a dating sim. Stop acting like spoiled childs, it's ridiculous.

Are you sure about this romances is one of most important parts of DA. When people describe "My first playthrough will be race A class B and I romance C second I romance D"

[10K]

Im not sure why your on here tbh if you really dislike everything Bioware does, & ive seen you post about how your getting TW3 since Inquisition will suck in your opinion, seems weird to me that someone who hates Bioware is interested in using their forums so much. Anders was written as bisexual in Awakening too btw

Where's the proof Anders was written bisexual? As I remember it Anders was a womanizer in Awakening. He never mentions any attraction towards men, he's always taking about women. Show me evidence that he was in fact bisexual in Awakening and we'll end it at that. Secondly I'm here on my own leisure, I need no reason to be here; I can do what I want with my time as I please. I do not have to justify why I'm here to you or anyone else. Until I'm banned or otherwise, I'll be sitting on this forum until I don't want to anymore. Also the post you read on my profile didn't say DA:I will suck, it actually says it seems like a bore the more I read into it, not that it will suck. If you actually took the time to read my feed, you would've also saw that I said how awesome DA:I looks. So stop trying to slander me and move on.

[RevilFox]

Where's the proof Anders was written bisexual? As I remember it Anders was a womanizer in Awakening. He never mentions any attraction towards men, he's always taking about women. Show me evidence that he was in fact bisexual in Awakening and we'll end it at that. Secondly I'm here on my own leisure, I need no reason to be here; I can do what I want with my time as I please. I do not have to justify why I'm here to you or anyone else. Until I'm banned or otherwise, I'll be sitting on this forum until I don't want to anymore. Also the post you read on my profile didn't say DA:I will suck, it actually says it seems like a bore the more I read into it, not that it will suck. If you actually took the time to read my feed, you would've also saw that I said how awesome DA:I looks. So stop trying to slander me and move on.

How about this, from David Gaider's blog (found here:http://dgaider.tumbl...ions-on-anders)

 

"While some people evidently didn’t like having their perceptions played with, it was indeed just their perception. We wrote the characters the exact same way, all that changed was what you were exposed to. Even, yes, Anders. He did not suddenly become bisexual in DA2 compared to Awakening. I wrote him in Awakening."

 

Will that do for proof?

[10K]

How about this, from David Gaider's blog (found here:http://dgaider.tumbl...ions-on-anders)

 

"While some people evidently didn’t like having their perceptions played with, it was indeed just their perception. We wrote the characters the exact same way, all that changed was what you were exposed to. Even, yes, Anders. He did not suddenly become bisexual in DA2 compared to Awakening. I wrote him in Awakening."

 

Will that do for proof?

Well thank you, I did not know that. It was a good read actually.

[AlexiaRevan]

 

Actually, its easier to write characters with set sexualities than those that are not set. Its easier to model and animate set sexualities than non-set.

 

 

Ow. I was nodding so hard at this I think I have a minor case of whiplash. I hadn't thought about the animation aspect, but I had thought the same about the writing. I think you've nailed it on both counts.

Party Pooper both of ya  what happen to expandingggggggggggggggggggggg 

[CuriousArtemis]

Actually, its easier to write characters with set sexualities than those that are not set. Its easier to model and animate set sexualities than non-set.

  

Ow.  I was nodding so hard at this I think I have a minor case of whiplash.      I hadn't thought about the animation aspect, but I had thought the same about the writing.  I think you've nailed it on both counts.

Umm, well, I guess you would have LESS to write for a straight character as opposed to a bi character, but it don't think it would be easier. I've written all kinds of characters, and their sexuality doesn't make them easier or harder.

I love your responses, AlexiaRaven, *I* was nodding my head along to everything you said

[AlexiaRevan]

Thanx But I can understand that once in a game , the whole writing process is completely different then say writing the same charachter from a fanfic . 

I actually saw that from a modder who made a romance mod for BG2 . She wrote the fanfic first , then peoples like it and decided to make it a romance mods . Once she made it , it felt different . Her charachter at least felt a bit different then when it was in the fanfic . I wrote to her and asked her why her charachter is acting like this and like that......and feel different . And I never forget her answer when she told me , she didn't see it . When she made her into a mod , and she was coding (They use the Infinity Engine to mod and as I understand it , it is all manual by hand typing on and on string like What IF player...) .And to her , there is no difference but she maybe mistaken...she said when she code the feel is different . All she see is the codes . 

And an engine can limit you thats for sure , you have to cut all those moochie and stuff that are emotional and put thing under a new light for many will be PLAYING them . While when you write....you write and peoples dive in and there is little trouble how you expand your charachter background and story . 

 

But I still think limitation or not , it is still the creator job to make you see it . The rest like voice acting and a portrait and the choices given just give said charachter more life . A silent line should have a life of its own to begin with . 

[Grieving Natashina]

Well thank you, I did not know that. It was a good read actually.

Take it as a life lesson.    

 

You can't assume someone is straight just because they flirt with/romance the opposite gender.  This is very true in real life.  There are plenty of bi/pan folks that might be more attracted to the opposite gender than their own.  They might prefer to be with the same gender, and enter a homosexual relationship. However, they are still bi.  They are still attracted to different genders, they are still not straight.  Also, being monogamous doesn't change things either.   For instance, most folks would assume incorrectly that I was straight because I've been with a man for over 10 years.

 

  
Umm, well, I guess you would have LESS to write for a straight character as opposed to a bi character, but it don't think it would be easier. I've written all kinds of characters, and their sexuality doesn't make them easier or harder.

I love your responses, AlexiaRaven, *I* was nodding my head along to everything you said

I meant no offense, I promise.  I have found for myself that it was easier to writer a character with a set sexuality, if love/romance comes up at all.  

[CuriousArtemis]

I meant no offense, I promise.  I have found for myself that it was easier to writer a character with a set sexuality, if love/romance comes up at all.  

It's cool

Well really, once a character enters a story on paper, his sexuality is set because he becomes part of the narrative -- unless it's simply part of his character make-up to have a fluid sexuality.

But what I mean to say is, I don't find writing a bi character any more difficult than a straight or gay character. Also, sometimes I'll, say, write a character in one narrative where he's gay, but then I'll write a different story, use that same character, and write him as straight or bi this time. It's no harder either way -- I know my character, and who he likes isn't going to necessarily change his character make-up (though it can).

Now that's on paper -- but I don't imagine it's any different for a RPG. For instance, I doubt Alistair was easier to write than Zevran or Fenris just because he was straight.

[Uprising]

@SafaJockey I know that it is important to some players, I understand the disapointment, like I said, I wanted Varric to be romancable, but unlike some people here, I can approve the fact that for some reasons, he is not. If the thread was really about suggestions or discussions about why a character cannot be romancable I wouldnt have reacted the way I did.

@9TailsFox, what you discribe as "one of the most important part of DA", is a point of view some fans have. In the end, romances are a facultative part of the game, that is why the Devs place them after everything else, and that's why you dont miss important things if you dont do them.

But despite this fact, they did work on them, for all the fans. What do they get in return ? Complaints and cries and 64727 theards and negative com on YT vids.

[10K]

Take it as a life lesson.  

 

You can't assume someone is straight just because they flirt with/romance the opposite gender.  This is very true in real life.  There are plenty of bi/pan folks that might be more attracted to the opposite gender than their own.  They might prefer to be with the same gender, and enter a homosexual relationship. However, they are still bi.  They are still attracted to different genders, they are still not straight.  Also, being monogamous doesn't change things either.   For instance, most folks would assume incorrectly that I was straight because I've been with a man for over 10 years.

 

Trust me I know, I figured that out with my own sister. But with Anders it felt heavily implied with his banter that's all.

[OptionFour]

You can headcanon this, sure, but it's not on the screen as part of his m/m arc. If he really had conflicted feelings about that, as his dialogues might suggest, you'd want it to be addressed....otherwise it does kind of leave the relationship in a weird place because it's not resolved and requires you to infer a lot of things. Like, if Zevran has lingering shame/confusion about m/m attraction because of his past....wouldn't you, as someone romancing him, want to have the dialogue options to talk to him about that? Otherwise, esp given the position of power you have over him, it would feel uncomfortable. 

 

Personally, I'd just be happy if none of the bisexual romances this time have a past history of sexual abuse. And I say this as a bisexual with a history of abuse who adoooores Isa/Zev, lmao, but there is something uncomfortable in the similarities between Zev & Isabela and how their romantic interactions with the Warden play out and how the narrative treats them, as well as the prevalence of the idea of abuse "causing" bisexuality in general media. 

 

Oh, I have no interest in headcanon whatsoever, was mostly just asking if that were possible. If it were like the Anders in 'Awakening' situation where the official party line is "just because we didn't show him as bisexual doesn't mean that he wasn't", wherein Zevran's would be "just because we didn't illuminate these particular issues doesn't mean they don't exist". While I still think its possible that was the case, I have no interest in making excuses for other people's lazy writing so I'll let the idea go.

 

That said, I pretty much agree with everything else. Especially the "I was abused, so now I like a different set of genitals" trope. Its both over-played, and absurd. The whole thing is just kind of weird, really. So here's to hoping we don't see it again.

[aTigerslunch]

  
Umm, well, I guess you would have LESS to write for a straight character as opposed to a bi character, but it don't think it would be easier. I've written all kinds of characters, and their sexuality doesn't make them easier or harder.

I love your responses, AlexiaRaven, *I* was nodding my head along to everything you said

Writing as a novel isnt difficult, writing to allow players to have choice is. Which is what I am working on, not a novel type, but at same time, novel quality.

 

I am learning things as I go. I have to look things up. I forgot to mention, the way I am and how I perceive things still are being opened to make sure when I write someone in this "choose your own adventure" style is believable and not an offense to some.

[clone wars]

straight males
 
Tali
 
Straight females
 
Garrus
 
Bisexual
 
liara
 
Kaiden/Ashley
 
Dianna
 
Gays
 
Cortes
 
Lesbians
 
Samantha

Just out of curiosity have you played mass effect Or is this your WishList of romances for the game

[clone wars]

Hooray manses called Dragon age inquisition seems to be well balance not diminished great romance is not too many Gay and lesbian romances not too many bisexual romances But there's no variety I mean we get no female Qunari for Male inquisitor or a female dwarf And that's the thing there's not a lot of other choices of romance at least in dragon age origins we get a little bit of more romances outside the party members but who knows what will happen with the romances in dragon age inquisition I mean romancing may not just for party members and advises we may be able to Romance npc too

[Super Drone]

Hooray manses called Dragon age inquisition seems to be well balance not diminished great romance is not too many Gay and lesbian romances not too many bisexual romances But there's no variety I mean we get no female Qunari for Male inquisitor or a female dwarf And that's the thing there's not a lot of other choices of romance at least in dragon age origins we get a little bit of more romances outside the party members but who knows what will happen with the romances in dragon age inquisition I mean romancing may not just for party members and advises we may be able to Romance npc too

 

They said the 8 romances are the only romances, there aren't going to be other romances outside the companions and advisors.