589 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

Murder and tyrannical abuse, for one. Honestly, you people disgust me. 

As much as I hate it sometime it's necessary. That's the one thing I learnt from the FALL OUT 3 DLC: THE PITT.

[Steelcan]

Absolute power corrupts absolutely and Bhelen has already proven himself to be a disgusting human being. Wait until Inquisition if you put Bhelen on the throne. Just wait.

and nothing will happen because we aren't going to Orzammar

[Ryzaki]

and if it improves the lot of the casteless?  Rolls the borders back for the first time in centuries?  Promotes greater trade between Orzammar and the Surface?

 

Yeah I dislike the guy but he was better than Harrowmont's spineless self.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Absolute power corrupts absolutely and Bhelen has already proven himself to be a disgusting human being. Wait until Inquisition if you put Bhelen on the throne. Just wait.

 

Inquisitor: What news from Orzammar?

Scout: King Bhelen is focusing on pushing the Darkspawn back and reclaiming lost Thaigs. He's willing to give token support to the Inquisition.

Inquisitor: I'll take it!

 

*OR*

Inquisitor: What news from Orzammar?

Scout: King Harrowmont is dead and the Assembly is deadlocked. The Spawn are pushing ever closer to Orzammar and the city is effectively cut off from surface trade.

Inquisitor: Well that sucks.

[Br3admax]

As much as I hate it sometime it's necessary. That's the one thing I learnt from the FALL OUT 3 DLC: THE PITT.

Congrats. Learning a life lesson from Bethesda. No joke, that's actually the saddest thing I've heard all day. 

[leaguer of one]

Absolute power corrupts absolutely and Bhelen has already proven himself to be a disgusting human being. Wait until Inquisition if you put Bhelen on the throne. Just wait.

No, it's absolute pride that corrupts. The issue is when they think they can do no wrong and fall to hubris.

[DragonDroppings]

no people prefer good rulers to weak one's its pretty obvious that Bhelen isn't a good guy but he definitely is a good

and strong king as opposed to the laughable Harrowmont

 

Its comparable to the Orlais situation
Gaspard may not be the best guy but he believes in a code, he has a vision and stands by his principals as crazy as they may be

Celene on the other hand is hypocritical and weak maybe she wasn't before the events of the book but in the book she definitely is

She writes Gaspard off way to easily she wasn't good anymore at the game

Gaspard stands by a code? Yea, the code where he can take his family crest off his armor and commit treason for his own personal gains. He bends that code so far back it's laughable that people call him honorable. 

[leaguer of one]

Yeah I dislike the guy but he was better than Harrowmont's spineless self.

^This.

Added if we went with Harrowmont, Orzammar would fall to civil war.

[Master Warder Z_]

The fact that you can't tell the difference shows the problem. 

 

Well Gihren ordered the "10 second attack" in which millions of people were killed by nuclear weapons, and later dropped a 19 kilometer space colony on to earth which again killed millions of people...And he was "Supreme" Leader of the Principality of Zeon...So he was an Autocrat.

 

But his cause was just!

 

And Bhelen presumably if the codexes are to be believed, fed his political rivals and alike to Branka to make Golems, Closed the Assembly and make himself a dictator.

 

And well Hitler...History has enough to say on that, i need not say much.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I'm not for a caste system, but I'm even less for a autocracy. Hitler did a lot of "good" things before he started putting people into furnaces after being given more power.
 
And hindsight is an even worse reason to put Bhelen on the throne; no one--especially dwarf nobles--thought that guy was good on their first play through. Maybe they put him on the throne based on the way he sold himself, but it's not the old racist status quo guy vs. the progressive like you're making it out to be.

You make this claim, and yet you support the Stalin-esque Harrowmont?

here's a list of harrowmonts accomplishments on the throne. These are copy pasted from the wiki, word for word.

1. further restricts rights from the lower castes while favoring the nobility
2. further isolating Orzammar from the surface by restricting trade and refusing outside military assistance beyond equipment and herbal aid against the Darkspawn in the Deep Roads.
3. After several riots in Dust Town, he uses the golems to practically reduce the district to rubble.
4. Dies and leaves the dwarves in a worse shape and a worse civil war.

And as a added bonus,

5. Branka states that more "volunteers" are needed in order to create more golems. Harrowmont refuses, however, and Branka begins raiding the surface to capture unwilling humans and elves. This leads to a short war with Ferelden, forcing Orzammar to close its gates to the surface, thus isolating the dwarves more than ever.

And if you let Bhelen live and have golems?
"
Should the Anvil of the Void be preserved as well, Bhelen works with Branka to produce more golems. While this allows the dwarves to reclaim relics from old thaigs, eventually Branka refuses to make golems for the king alone and Bhelen bans its use. "


Who exactly is the tyrant here?

[Steelcan]

Gaspard stands by a code? Yea, the code where he can take his family crest off his armor and commit treason for his own personal gains. He bends that code so far back it's laughable that people call him honorable. 

 

Noble: Empress you are too soft on the elves

 

Celene: Well time to burn a few thousand elves alive

[Master Warder Z_]

Gaspard stands by a code? Yea, the code where he can take his family crest off his armor

 

Because he fights for himself not his house.

 

He didn't want them involved in any blowback obviously.

[leaguer of one]

Did you guys ever consider the real progressive move would be moving to the surface?

Do you realise that

a.)Bhelan is doing that in baby steps.

Harrowmont would never allow that to happen.

c)They would then start to compete with surface races and throw out their advantage neutrality to do that?

[Br3admax]

*snip*

Who gets to enjoy these reforms? the ashes left when the fire has already consumed everything? 

[Steelcan]

Please. If she didn't do what she did, Gaspard would've done it. The elves had no chance. At least by maintaining the throne Celene can secure freedom/equality in the future.

until a few more nobles object to it, so she burns down her own university and kills more elves

[Cainhurst Crow]

Did you guys ever consider the real progressive move would be moving to the surface?

Which violates the many traditions of orzummar, and in which bhelen would probably be more willing to do, if things got bad against the dark spawn. Versus Harrowmont, who'd probably say that any dwarf who leaves for the surface shall be quartered and erased from the shaperate.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Please. If she didn't do what she did, Gaspard would've done it. The elves had no chance. At least by maintaining the throne Celene can secure freedom/equality in the future.

 

And abandon the idea the second the nobility looks at it funny.

[DragonDroppings]

Noble: Empress you are too soft on the elves

 

Celene: Well time to burn a few thousand elves alive

More like, "Celene, the elves are rebelling and you need to show strength that you can handle war-like scenarios. Squash the rebellion before Gaspard goes over your head!"

[Steelcan]

Go to the surface and let the Darkspawn run amok with no way to scout them out or fight them?

 

 

Brilliant

[Steelcan]

More like, "Celene, the elves are rebelling and you need to show strength that you can handle war-like scenarios. Squash the rebellion before Gaspard goes over your head!"

lol that worked well for her, being played like a fiddle the whole time

[leaguer of one]

Well Gihren ordered the "10 second attack" in which millions of people were killed by nuclear weapons, and later dropped a 19 kilometer space colony on to earth which again killed millions of people...And he was "Supreme" Leader of the Principality of Zeon...So he was an Autocrat.

 

But his cause was just!

 

Cause was just? So a person can do anything they want if their cause is just? Turned out real well for him and  system in the long run. They still have not finish filling graves at the end of the universal century.