589 réponses à ce sujet

[wcholcombe]

I'm aware Gaspard is a snake but turning against the Empress is hard to call treason when she gained the throne by treason.

It boils down to this.

1. Gaspard killed his strongest ally for breaking a truce.

2. Celene kills her lover's family and lies to her about it for decades to her face.

Neither is terribly honorable and they both play the game. I could give a different examplle.

1. Celene attempts to resolve the issue in Halamshiral by killing the noble who caused the issue whereas Gaspard said they should have just killed the elves.

[wcholcombe]

1. The negative of his invading Fereldan?

2. Why would there be a negative reducing the size of Orlais? It's an evil-evil nation.

1. How is invading Fereldwn a negative for Orlais?
2. To orlesians it would be.

[raging_monkey]

Bothbcan just suck a egg cause they are just mediocre at best people

[Willowhugger]

1. How is invading Fereldwn a negative for Orlais?
2. To orlesians it would be.

1. It's a negative for player characters who might think they're innocent victims?

 

2. Orlesians are, at least the nobility, scum.

 

So Gaspard spreading Orlaisianism is a very-very bad thing.

 

I suspect we have different views on Orlais, though.

[wcholcombe]

No, we just view who the consequences should be negative for differently.

If picking the ruler of Orlais, I am not concerned with how it affects orlais, just as I wasn't concerned with who I chose for the dwarves affected non dwarves.

It seems disingenuous of me to choose an orlesian ruler based on how it will affect Ferelden.

[Willowhugger]

Well, I'm not going to be picking rulers based on how it benefits Orlais.

I'll be picking it based on how it will affect everyone in Thedas because I'm the Inquisitor from the Free Marches.

:-)

[The Baconer]

1. How is invading Ferelden a negative for Orlais?

 

When it's determined that the effort is not worth the gold and lives spent? I admit I have not read The Stolen Throne, but is that not what happened last time?

[The Baconer]

I'll be picking it based on how it will affect everyone in Thedas because I'm the Inquisitor from the Free Marches.

:-)

 

Why choose? Why not carve it up and broker deals with lords from the neighboring countries? Sell it's pieces for gold and more... You know, to support the effort.

[Master Warder Z_]

When it's determined that the effort is not worth the gold and lives spent? I admit I have not read The Stolen Throne, but is that not what happened last time?

No.

The occupation more or less paid for itself for the majority of it.

It only really became overly expensive near the end and that mostly had to do with mass deployment of those really expensive knights.

[leaguer of one]

If I decide to go with Dalish I'm going to be really bummed if I'm not convinced Celene will do what she says, and/or I can't convince her to free the Elves. I really don't want to side with Gaspard. lol

Who said you have to pick a side?

 

*Sharpens ax.

[Wissenschaft]

I'm aware Gaspard is a snake but turning against the Empress is hard to call treason when she gained the throne by treason.

It boils down to this.

 

1. Gaspard killed his strongest ally for breaking a truce.

 

2. Celene kills her lover's family and lies to her about it for decades to her face.

 

In Celene defense, its not like she had a choice in the matter of killing her servants. We know that Gaspard was also given a ring by Lady Mantillon. So we know she had a replacement ready for Celene if she failed to do exactly as expected. If Mantillon was ready to kill the emperor (which she did) then there is no doubt she'd have killed Celene and her servants.

[leaguer of one]

In Celene defense, its not like she had a choice in the matter of killing her servants. We know that Gaspard was also given a ring by Lady Mantillon. So we know she had a replacement ready for Celene if she failed to do exactly as expected. If Mantillon was ready to kill the emperor (which she did) then there is no doubt she'd have killed Celene and her servants.

Unknown to her was the "fereldin opinion". The only reason see did what she did was that she fear that Gaspard would try and kill her. Ironically at the time he would of been the person the one person to keep her safe.

[Magdalena11]

Neither is terribly honorable and they both play the game. I could give a different examplle.

1. Celene attempts to resolve the issue in Halamshiral by killing the noble who caused the issue whereas Gaspard said they should have just killed the elves.

It's a shame that neither one of them thought arresting a noble because he killed someone was a possibility.  Even Halamshiral's lord (Pierre?) had to let the elves take the law into their own hands to see justice done.  Would having judgement applied equally regardless of social status have sent the wrong message?  It would probably be tricky and impractical to implement, but the way things are lets nobles know that their faction needs them more than they need their faction.

[Willowhugger]

It's a shame that neither one of them thought arresting a noble because he killed someone was a possibility.  Even Halamshiral's lord (Pierre?) had to let the elves take the law into their own hands to see justice done.  Would having judgement applied equally regardless of social status have sent the wrong message?  It would probably be tricky and impractical to implement, but the way things are lets nobles know that their faction needs them more than they need their faction.

 

Yeah, it's the nature of the Beast that both of them are scum and Thedas is NOT FAIR.

I like that historical authenticity.

[Magdalena11]

Yeah, it's the nature of the Beast that both of them are scum and Thedas is NOT FAIR.

I like that historical authenticity.

Agreed that the historical authenticity is striking.  The figurehead chosen really doesn't matter then, since the ones with the real power are behind the scenes.  Hmmm.  Interesting RP possibilities.  It reminds me of of the Landsmeet.  

[Willowhugger]

Agreed that the historical authenticity is striking.  The figurehead chosen really doesn't matter then, since the ones with the real power are behind the scenes.  Hmmm.  Interesting RP possibilities.  It reminds me of of the Landsmeet.  

 

In Fereldan, the rulers are the Landsmeet who are the historical Baron-based Parliament.

 

In Orlais, it seems that the Emperor is something different but in France they were really usually just the largest Landowner.

 

So it's interesting they seem to have more power but more daggers pointed at them.

[Magdalena11]

In Fereldan, the rulers are the Landsmeet who are the historical Baron-based Parliament.

 

In Orlais, it seems that the Emperor is something different but in France they were really usually just the largest Landowner.

 

So it's interesting they seem to have more power but more daggers pointed at them.

I was actually thinking of when Loghain says something about who gets to pull the strings and then the warden walks in and he says "now we have the puppeteer."  

[Willowhugger]

Well, it's not like ALISTAIR could have been the mastermind of the plot.

;-)

[Ajna]

Yup, Bioware is fond of forcing folks to crush things.

...Like Cerberus...

Nobody forced me to crush Cerberus...I ****** relished the **** out of it

Wait, what was this thread about?

[wcholcombe]

If I decide to go with Dalish I'm going to be really bummed if I'm not convinced Celene will do what she says, and/or I can't convince her to free the Elves. I really don't want to side with Gaspard. lol

At the end of ME she gives every indication of being committed to improving the state of the orlesian elves, she regards them as orlesian citizens the same as humans. Plus, this is without Briala even in the picture clouding her judgement, so there is every reason to believe she will follow through with her continued reforms onces she gets stability. 

 

Also, I maintain that neither Briala or the city elves in Halamshiral seek independence, they just want equality for elves in Orlais.  They don't regard themselves as oppressed elves or Dalish, they regard themselves as Orlesian.

[Save_The_Queen]

:/ i don't know what the french words mean (they are french right?) I took Spanish in highschool (not that i remember any of it).

 

 

I sometimes have to google words and it frustrates me D:

 

Anyway do you guys know if Celene or Gaspard will be in inquisition? I want to kill Gaspard, i only read the first two chapters and Gaspard is a tyrant like Loghain. 

 

Trouble with french in the books ? 

 

Worry not, me too. And it has been my mother-tonge for 26 years. Like Fenris doesn't exactly "speak" qunlat by Tallis' standards, Orlesians don't reaaaaaally speak french. Or I hope so, at least. It's full of grammar mistakes, global weirdness, oddities and such. 

 

By the way. Spanish-is-nowhere-like-french. Or it would be called french. You have the strangest ideas, friend.

[wcholcombe]

Yeah, it's the nature of the Beast that both of them are scum and Thedas is NOT FAIR.

I like that historical authenticity.

 

 

It's a shame that neither one of them thought arresting a noble because he killed someone was a possibility.  Even Halamshiral's lord (Pierre?) had to let the elves take the law into their own hands to see justice done.  Would having judgement applied equally regardless of social status have sent the wrong message?  It would probably be tricky and impractical to implement, but the way things are lets nobles know that their faction needs them more than they need their faction.

 

 

See but neither of you are seeing it from their perspective or the world they live in.  Its an issue that arises when using modern morality on a world it doesn't exist in.

 

The idea of arresting a noble for crimes against a peasant wouldn't have worked in midevil times in our world let alone in Thedas.  Gaspard is a chevalier, he can kill any peasant-elf or human- without having to answer for it at all.  He sees elves as inferior and literally blames the state that Halamshiral was in on the lord being to easy on the elves and not crushing the revolt harshly. 

 

Celene sees the political reality of what she can do and can't do.  She is already pushing for equal rights for elven merchants and allowing them to own and sell goods in the merchant quarter.  She has also forced the university to admit elves, and modernized their teaching to educate the future generation of nobles into the idea that elves and humans are equal.  She is making strides, but she also knows good and well that Gaspard is plotting against her and if she hauls up a noble and publicly punishes him for crimes against a lowly gutter rat elf(the ways the majority of nobles would view him, not me), then the majority of them will go over to Gaspard and she will have lost the Civil War before it begins. As empress she has great powers, but she can only maintain them as long as she has the support of the majority of nobles.  If she pisses off enough of them, Gaspard and his forces can basically walk into the capital without her having enough support to repulse them.

[The Baconer]

Celene sees the political reality of what she can do and can't do.  She is already pushing for equal rights for elven merchants and allowing them to own and sell goods in the merchant quarter.  She has also forced the university to admit elves, and modernized their teaching to educate the future generation of nobles into the idea that elves and humans are equal.  She is making strides, but she also knows good and well that Gaspard is plotting against her and if she hauls up a noble and publicly punishes him for crimes against a lowly gutter rat elf(the ways the majority of nobles would view him, not me), then the majority of them will go over to Gaspard and she will have lost the Civil War before it begins. As empress she has great powers, but she can only maintain them as long as she has the support of the majority of nobles.  If she pisses off enough of them, Gaspard and his forces can basically walk into the capital without her having enough support to repulse them.

 

Now, if she was truly smart she could have robbed Gaspard of all his support and have his head on a platter, as opposed to falling right into his trap.

[fhs33721]

Now, if she was truly smart she could have robbed Gaspard of all his support and have his head on a platter, as opposed to falling right into his trap.

How so?