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[Master Warder Z_]

Lady Mantillon. A bad example to follow.

 

Not really considering they put up with him for three decades.

 

As i said in the very post you quoted, he was only removed when it was prompted by Celene.

 

To the point of your rather off topic political analogues Orlais wasn't shipping much of its coin over to Fereldan at the time, about the only cash shipments going over the border was the pay for the Chevaliers, the majority of their army was paid out of pocket by the Fereldan Monarchy of Orlais. Orlais didn't spend a single drake on them, Taxes were high (and this was actually mentioned in the stolen throne) due to Florian's excesses, he was a very happy spender of Orlesian currency.

[Willowhugger]

Florian had the rebellions in Ferelden as a convenient distraction. The war there was likely the reason the taxes were high in the first place. Even IRL, the American revolution was started because Britain tried to shift the tax burden, for paying for its wars with France, onto the American colonies. He also was killed by his mistress, Lady Mantillon. A bad example to follow.

Gaspard has an army behind him. Hes basically the top general of the army and has royal blood. This allows Gaspard a legmiate calim to the throne which is how he can muster support for a rebellion.

World of Thedas points out the title Grand Duke is a title given to members of the Royal Family who aren't the heirs.

He's basically Prince Andrew.

[Willowhugger]

To the point of your rather off topic political analogues Orlais wasn't shipping much of its coin over to Fereldan at the time, about the only cash shipments going over the border was the pay for the Chevaliers, the majority of their army was paid out of pocket by the Fereldan Monarchy of Orlais. Orlais didn't spend a single drake on them, Taxes were high (and this was actually mentioned in the stolen throne) due to Florian's excesses, he was a very happy spender of Orlesian currency.

 

Also, the idea of expensive modern wars is kind of a new thing as unlike in modern times, the burden of wars expenditure was usually fostered on the countries getting conquered.

 

Wars, historically, were profitable for the winners.

It was only after this sort of backfired in the 20th century that it fell out of favor.

 

From what we see, Fereldan is getting looted top to bottom.

[Master Warder Z_]

World of Thedas points out the title Grand Duke is a title given to members of the Royal Family who aren't the heirs.

He's basically Prince Andrew.

 

I should smack you for comparing Gaspard to that whelp.

 

If there ever was a more worthless family sitting on a throne...

[Wissenschaft]

@medhiaNox:

Wow, where to begin. Michel is the one that betrayed Celene. His duty as champion was to fight to the death for Celene, forsaken his own personal honor in favor of the empress' honor. He broken his oath to do so and thats just flat out treason. There shouldn't even be a civil war going on anymore.

"Even Celene accepts what Briala tells her.  She's weak because she relies on magical items as crutches - just like any weak person does."
Celene does know how to fight, she just doesn't practice it. The rings make up for her lack of practice, not a lack of skill. Shes still manages to kill several fighters by herself during the book. Thats hardly weak.

If Celene rubs you the wrong way, feel free to hate her. Theres no need to distort what actually happens in the book to justify the hate.

[raging_monkey]

Lets play nice

[Wissenschaft]

World of Thedas points out the title Grand Duke is a title given to members of the Royal Family who aren't the heirs.

He's basically Prince Andrew.

 

Yes, I know hes not the heir but that doesn't mean hes not in line to the throne. Celene has no heirs and seems unlike to gain any ever so its a moot point.

[Wissenschaft]

Not really considering they put up with him for three decades.

 

As i said in the very post you quoted, he was only removed when it was prompted by Celene.

 

To the point of your rather off topic political analogues Orlais wasn't shipping much of its coin over to Fereldan at the time, about the only cash shipments going over the border was the pay for the Chevaliers, the majority of their army was paid out of pocket by the Fereldan Monarchy of Orlais. Orlais didn't spend a single drake on them, Taxes were high (and this was actually mentioned in the stolen throne) due to Florian's excesses, he was a very happy spender of Orlesian currency.

 

Well, thats even more reason for Fereldens to hate Orlais. We'll spend your own money to help conquer and dominate you. Makes me wonder what the actual state of Orliean Finances are if Florian just threw away Orlesian money. Though I forget where that was mentioned in the Stolen Throne?

[Drasanil]

He would make them an open offer of alliance if anything, And would he do so?

 

I don't know, he is willing to accept the aid of Apostates, i think if he is willing to employ illegal mages, i think he could employ elves if it turned the situation in his favor far enough.

 

And the elves actually have an honest to Maker bargaining chip for once [the Eluvians], I doubt the military applications of those things have skipped Gaspard's mind and given it 'likes' elves and they are naturally suited to using them, I could totally see Gaspard offering decent terms if the elves agree to support him and bring the eluvians on his side. 

 

Mind you, Celene would also do the same, it's just that there is no reason to believe she'll keep her word once the dust settles and a few nobles make a pouty face at her.  

[Willowhugger]

@medhiaNox:

Wow, where to begin. Michel is the one that betrayed Celene. His duty as champion was to fight to the death for Celene, forsaken his own personal honor in favor of the empress' honor.

I'm pretty sure doing so is how the Chevaliers have justified every one of their atrocities since time memorial.

It's the one thing he did right in his entire life.

Of course, if there is a "Briala" option, I'm all for it.

However, I see the Briala option as a tag on.

You'll have to put Gaspard or Celene on the throne and both of them will work against Briala.
 

[Fredward]

Personally they both irk me. They hide their duplicitous natures FROM THEMSELVES by pretending their doing stuff for love (Celene) or that their actions are guided by selectively interpreted honour (Gaspard). Still, Gaspard's version of self-delusion annoys me more so if we had to choose who to stab in the face I would stab him. But I'd like an option to just outplay both.

 

Uhm, actually what is this thread even about?

[Master Warder Z_]

Makes me wonder what the actual state of Orliean Finances are if Florian just threw away Orlesian money.

 

Who knows? Considering its one of the richer countries of Thedas i doubt we will ever know, its about like the Anderfels having a broke King, nothing changes, its probably akin to Orlais having an Emperor spend too much, nothing changes.

 

Though I forget where that was mentioned in the Stolen Throne?

 

King Meghren was speaking of the lavishness of his cousin's famous parties back in the capital.

 

He made them sound very common and very expensive.

[Wissenschaft]

I'm pretty sure doing so is how the Chevaliers have justified every one of their atrocities since time memorial.

It's the one thing he did right in his entire life.

Of course, if there is a "Briala" option, I'm all for it.

However, I see the Briala option as a tag on.

You'll have to put Gaspard or Celene on the throne and both of them will work against Briala.
 

 

The one thing he did right was prolonging a Civil War? o.O

 

@Fredward.

Thats a good question, the OP posted once and I don't think has posted again. lol

[Br3admax]

Yes, put Celene back on the throne. I don't want Orlais to be a threat anyway, 

[Hydwn]

*read the OP, mentioning difficulties with French*

 

*entered the thread as a fleunt French speaker, looking for French to help with*

 

*speed-read through 19 pages of thread looking for French to translate*

 

*encountered a fervent political debate*

 

*a 20th page was added, still no French*

 

I don't actually remember that much French in the book, besides titles.  I think they did use chevalier as a title - it means both "knight" and "sir."  Comte is "count" or "earl."  Marquis is....marquis.  Chancelier is chancellor.  The particle de in a name ("de Chevin") signals minor nobility (high royalty doesn't have it).  

 

Val gets used a lot, and just means valley.  Mont means mountain.  Valmont is Mountain Valley.  Val Forêt means Forest Valley.  Val Royeaux looks like a misspelling of Val Royal - Royal Valley.  Montfort is "Strong Mountain."  Celene means "heavenly," usually spelt Céline.  

 

That's all I remember.  I don't recall a single sentence in actual French.  I remember more gratuitous Elvish than Franch

[Willowhugger]

The one thing he did right was prolonging a Civil War? o.O

 

Yes.

 

The Civil War's continuation means a weakened Orlais and a better position for the elves.

 

It also means neither Gaspard or Celene have a firm grasp on power.

Either wins, the world loses.

 

Man, my MageWardenHawkeQuisitor's relationship with Leliana was probably doomed from the beginning wasn't it?

[Wissenschaft]

Who knows? Considering its one of the richer countries of Thedas i doubt we will ever know, its about like the Anderfels having a broke King, nothing changes, its probably akin to Orlais having an Emperor spend too much, nothing changes.

 

 

King Meghren was speaking of the lavishness of his cousin's famous parties back in the capital.

 

He made them sound very common and very expensive.

 

Ha, I need to reread Stolen Throne now. None the less, it helps explain why Ferelden even won. Seems like Orlias tried to dominate Ferelden on the cheap, only giving the min. necessary to maintain order and they payed the price when significant resistance arose.

[Master Warder Z_]

Uhm, actually what is this thread even about?

 

Did you just ignore the OP then?

[Wissenschaft]

Yes.

 

The Civil War's continuation means a weakened Orlais and a better position for the elves.

 

It also means neither Gaspard or Celene have a firm grasp on power.

Either wins, the world loses.

 

Man, my MageWardenHawkeQuisitor's relationship with Leliana was probably doomed from the beginning wasn't it?

 

Ah, I can't see a weaken Orlais being good for Elves unless they plan to break away and form their own nation. Which is its own set of problems. A civil war is also terrible for all the human civilians in the empire. But I suppose elven lives are more important than human lives.

 

Did you just ignore the OP then?

 

Come now, your just as guilty. We all are. lol

[Br3admax]

 

It also means neither Gaspard or Celene have a firm grasp on power.

Either wins, the world loses.

Nah. If Celene wins, everyone not Orlesian will benefit. If Gaspard wins, Orlais will maintain the old status quo. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Come now, your just as guilty. We all are. lol

 

I actually tried to contribute to the thread before it became Gaspard VS Celene.

 

Which is a pointless argument to me.

 

It's obvious Gaspard should be Emperor.

[Master Warder Z_]

or that their actions are guided by selectively interpreted honour (Gaspard). 

 

[Willowhugger]

Ah, I can't see a weaken Orlais being good for Elves unless they plan to break away and form their own nation. Which is its own set of problems. A civil war is also terrible for all the human civilians in the empire. But I suppose elven lives are more important than human lives.

I liberate the oppressed.

 

What can I say.

 

If the majority must suffer so a broken minority can rise from poverty and despair, so be it. I'm anti-slavery, Pro-Mage, Pro-City Elf, and anti-noble.

[DragonDroppings]

The one thing he did right was prolonging a Civil War? o.O

 

@Fredward.

Thats a good question, the OP posted once and I don't think has posted again. lol

I did post again, several arguments went on in that time. Actually, the truth is, the french was confusing at first until i just started guessing what the words might mean.

 

I was more interested in a Celene vs Gaspard debate, so i argued for Celene for a bit, then realized more things as i finished the book & posted here.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

I actually tried to contribute to the thread before it became Gaspard VS Celene.

 

Which is a pointless argument to me.

 

It's obvious Gaspard should be Emperor.

 

Bhelen for the Dwarves! Gaspard for Orlais! Slowly but surely we'll put competent people on the thrones of Thedas!