Gaspard and Celene are very similar the only difference is that if you know the magic phrases and make Gaspard put his honour on the line he'll keep a deal with you. Celene doesn't even have that much.
I'd rather not have to support either of them, access to the Eluvians are a better option. Although I don't like Briala much either. .
All you guys say Celene is evil when Gaspard is just as bad. im further in the book & Gaspard will do anything to be emperor. He is digusting..
Celene 4 lyfe. Gaspard will never grow on me. He is Loghain reincarnated. And I hate Loghain
finish the book
Gaspard for Emperor
finish the book
Gaspard for Emperor
Gaspard actually has backbone to stand up to others, Celene bends whichever the way the wind blows.
Gaspard has a code of conduct that he refuses to break, Celene butchered elves because racist nobles thought she was too soft on them.
Celene is weak against opposition, Gaspard has plans to unite the nation and nationalize the Circles
down with the Empress
Gaspard actually has backbone to stand up to others, Celene bends whichever the way the wind blows.
Gaspard has a code of conduct that he refuses to break, Celene butchered elves because racist nobles thought she was too soft on them.
Celene is weak against opposition, Gaspard has plans to unite the nation and nationalize the Circles
down with the Empress
Gaspard actually has backbone to stand up to others, Celene bends whichever the way the wind blows.
Gaspard has a code of conduct that he refuses to break, Celene butchered elves because racist nobles thought she was too soft on them.
Celene is weak against opposition, Gaspard has plans to unite the nation and nationalize the Circles
down with the Empress
Long live Emperor Gaspard! Long Live Gaspard the Glorious! Long live the Empire!!!
If she calls herself a master of the Game she has to prove itShe was in a complicated position. One which Gaspard instigated. He manipulated the genocide of the elves, all to look better in everyone's eyes. Do you not remember when he threatened to burn down Halamshiral? He would bring war upon all of Orlais because of his ego.
You call it honor, I call it treason.
If she calls herself a master of the Game she has to prove it
She doesn't. To a scandal she reacts with genocide
If she calls herself a master of the Game she has to prove it
She already has. She became empress when everyone else considered Gaspard the heavy favorite and Celene wasn't even considered a contender.
She has set the throne for what 20 years or so and ushered Orlais into a Golden Era of cultural growth and made it the cultural center of thedas.
She flips the tables on Gaspard in his attempt to start a war with Ferelden and mocks him at the same time.
Heck if Lohgain hadn't betrayed Cailan she would have united Orlais and Ferelden together without ever going to war.
Gaspard found her weak point-the rabbit- and used it against her, that hardly makes her not a master of the game. Even Gaspard says he stands no chance against her in playing the game, which is why he attacks her in battle.
If she calls herself a master of the Game she has to prove it
She doesn't. To a scandal she reacts with genocide
Exactly right. Gaspard didn't force her to change her plans for Halamshiral, she made that choice all on her own. She had plenty of ways she could have reacted to a play that a couple of hundred people, at most, saw. From laughing it off to "Yeah, I bang a servant girl now and again. Who doesn't?" If she were as smart or adept at The Game as were supposed to believe, she'd have found a political solution.
Like, I don't know, one of the several political marriage offers on the table. If she'd responded positively to Remache's offer originally, instead of clinging to her elf body pillow, Gaspard would have lost one of his strongest supporters before he had a chance to put anything into motion.
Gaspard has plans to unite the nation and nationalize the Circles
Now that is funny. Alistair had plans to liberate the circles from the chantry as well. We saw how that happened. lol thanks I needed that laugh.
Exactly right. Gaspard didn't force her to change her plans for Halamshiral, she made that choice all on her own. She had plenty of ways she could have reacted to a play that a couple of hundred people, at most, saw. From laughing it off to "Yeah, I bang a servant girl now and again. Who doesn't?" If she were as smart or adept at The Game as were supposed to believe, she'd have found a political solution.
Like, I don't know, one of the several political marriage offers on the table. If she'd responded positively to Remache's offer originally, instead of clinging to her elf body pillow, Gaspard would have lost one of his strongest supporters before he had a chance to put anything into motion.
Wow, you really didn't get the political implications of the play and what it meant did you.........
It had nothing to do with her sleeping with a servant. It had to do with the idea that Gaspard and company had painted her as being soft on the elves and that Briala was actually calling the shots and manipulating her. If she hadn't responded as she did, more nobles would have gone over to Gaspard and she would have lost the civil war before it even began.
Celene already had a plan in play to end the rebellion all she had to do was send a message to Briala that an example had to be made and to bring the rebel leaders to Val Royeaux. She did exactly what Gaspard wanted by going to Halamshiral herself.
Wow, you really didn't get the political implications of the play and what it meant did you.........
It had nothing to do with her sleeping with a servant. It had to do with the idea that Gaspard and company had painted her as being soft on the elves and that Briala was actually calling the shots and manipulating her. If she hadn't responded as she did, more nobles would have gone over to Gaspard and she would have lost the civil war before it even began.
Condescending much?
I understood exactly what the play was trying to do. And she still didn't have to react the way she did. She allowed herself to be goaded into responding how her enemies wanted her to instead of using her supposed strengths. The play was a PR stunt, and nothing more. And if Celene were some poor burgher's wife with no access to resources of her own, maybe that would have been a crippling accusation. But she isn't. She's the Empress, with allies and resources of her own.
Thinking that 'burn down the Halimshiral alienage' was the only possible effective response to 'the heretical adaptation of a play implies the Empress is soft on elves' is laughable. And, honestly, if she had allowed things with the nobles to get so bad that overwhelming brutality against her own people, innocent as well as guilty, was the only response she had left to keep them in line, then she's not just 'not as good as she thinks' at The Game, she's terrible at it.
Exactly right. Gaspard didn't force her to change her plans for Halamshiral, she made that choice all on her own. She had plenty of ways she could have reacted to a play that a couple of hundred people, at most, saw. From laughing it off to "Yeah, I bang a servant girl now and again. Who doesn't?" If she were as smart or adept at The Game as were supposed to believe, she'd have found a political solution.
Like, I don't know, one of the several political marriage offers on the table. If she'd responded positively to Remache's offer originally, instead of clinging to her elf body pillow, Gaspard would have lost one of his strongest supporters before he had a chance to put anything into motion.
I agree that Gaspard didn't force Celene's actions, he merely set the situation up so that she didn't have any good choices, much like Leliana did with the blood mages in The Exiled Prince. He baited a trap, and Celene fell into it. Interestingly, I doubt Celene would have reacted so strongly if Leliana hadn't made it clear that squashing the uprising was desirable to the Chantry as well. I doubt a skilled manipulator like Celene was unaware of what was being left unsaid. Celene was railroaded, but it wasn't by Gaspard.
As far as accepting marriage proposals, I don't know if Celene would ever be able to accept one. Remache had nothing to offer her other than his own land, which she held as empress anyway. The fact that Remache was equally willing to offer his daughter to Gaspard (who neither confirms nor denies Remache's expectations) shows that he's just trying to weasel into a better political position, much like Rendon Howe. I think Celene would have been better off accepting Gaspard's proposal, TBH. He had power and supporters of his own, but that wasn't what she wanted. She wanted to be the only one holding the reins. For a lover, Celene chose someone who had no political power of her own except that which Celene allowed her.
Condescending much?
I understood exactly what the play was trying to do. And she still didn't have to react the way she did. She allowed herself to be goaded into responding how her enemies wanted her to instead of using her supposed strengths. The play was a PR stunt, and nothing more. And if Celene were some poor burgher's wife with no access to resources of her own, maybe that would have been a crippling accusation. But she isn't. She's the Empress, with allies and resources of her own.
Thinking that 'burn down the Halimshiral alienage' was the only possible effective response to 'the heretical adaptation of a play implies the Empress is soft on elves' is laughable. And, honestly, if she had allowed things with the nobles to get so bad that overwhelming brutality against her own people, innocent as well as guilty, was the only response she had left to keep them in line, then she's not just 'not as good as she thinks' at The Game, she's terrible at it.
Celene is widely and roundly regarded as a Savant at playing the game. She has forgotten more about the Great Game then I will ever know, I am quite certain if there was another response that could be taken, then she would have certainly seen it more then I.
Gaspard himself, you know the guy who is trying to kill her and replace her at empress, says that he has never been and will never be a match for her in the game.
Read the rest of the book, and you'll want to hug Gaspard and kill Celene with fire.
Seriously, do it.
I have and I think both of them need to be killed with fire. Gaspard is just a bad as Celene but for different reasons.
Briala also needs to be killed with fire as well in my opinion.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Gaspard became redeemable to me in the end, but he still isn't better than Celene in my eyes. She's got a much better vision for society as a whole (mostly with education).
I have and I think both of them need to be killed with fire. Gaspard is just a bad as Celene but for different reasons.
Briala also needs to be killed with fire as well in my opinion.
Nah they are just products of their cultures. You can't truly condemn them, within their world, nothing they have done is truly wrong or evil.
Now, if Gaspard wins, many of Celenes acts will become evil. Same is true if Celene wins. Which is why I am certain that it will end in some truce of some kind. My odds at the moment are on them getting married and putting the past behind them for a while. Would expect some kind of assurances that would prevent them from killing each other, but other then that, I expect both of them to survive the civil war, unless we let the assassin kill one of them...
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Both of their main concerns are valid (Celene sort represents progression and education. Gaspard is defense and security). I just think he comes off as more power hungry, just for the sake of it. And more ruthless. Honor bound though he may be.
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