Because i enjoy Bioware games?
What sort of question is that.
I don't usually enjoy things that largely oppose everything I believe in. Good on you if you can I suppose.
Having trouble reading Masked Empire
Débuté par
DragonDroppings
, sept. 08 2014 08:36
#176
Guest_..._*
Posté 10 septembre 2014 - 08:20
Guest_..._*
Guest_..._*
-
- Guests
Retour en haut
#177
Posté 10 septembre 2014 - 08:21
Chari
-
- Members
- 3 380 messages
We're told about this many times but we never actually see Celene being that good at the gameShe already has. She became empress when everyone else considered Gaspard the heavy favorite and Celene wasn't even considered a contender.
She has set the throne for what 20 years or so and ushered Orlais into a Golden Era of cultural growth and made it the cultural center of thedas.
She flips the tables on Gaspard in his attempt to start a war with Ferelden and mocks him at the same time.
Heck if Lohgain hadn't betrayed Cailan she would have united Orlais and Ferelden together without ever going to war.
Gaspard found her weak point-the rabbit- and used it against her, that hardly makes her not a master of the game. Even Gaspard says he stands no chance against her in playing the game, which is why he attacks her in battle.
The point of any story is to show, not to tell. I don't care how often the author calls his character brilliant if he doesn't show that
And mistakes and weaknesses Celene demonstrated made me question how she even survived in that society
Heck, if it wasn't for Felassan all of her little team would be dead by the middle of a book or earlier
So much brilliance
- Mihura, llandwynwyn, Patchwork et 1 autre aiment ceci
#178
Posté 10 septembre 2014 - 08:24
Master Warder Z_
-
- Members
- 19 819 messages
I don't usually enjoy things that largely oppose everything I believe in. Good on you, if you can I suppose.
How exactly is a middle age feudalistic fantasy setting: Liberal i wonder.
Even if you unsubstantiated claim was accurate, that doesn't change the setting.
Nobility, Monarchy and those with wealth and power dictate life.
The Common person? they live and die living out their roles, nothing more.
Given Liberalism is based on a notion of "equality" and "Liberty" i don't see how its very applicable to Thedas.
Given neither of those things exist to the common person, and they presumably won't for the foreseeable future.
#179
Guest_..._*
Posté 10 septembre 2014 - 08:31
Guest_..._*
Guest_..._*
-
- Guests
The setting itself obviously avoids real life politics, but many of the subtextual aspects of the game--that the player is aware of--do have distinctively liberal messages, at least socially. The inclusion of gay and Bi-sexual romances without any real objections from anyone for example; not to mention the continued themes of slavery and oppression in relation to the elves. Yes, it's true that you can take a pro-slavery/ or anti-Elf (to be fair) stance if you wish--that's the nature of roleplaying games. I guess it's fair to say that the setting itself is largely a-political and is up to the interpretation of the player, but I do think BioWare's politics or message is anything but vague.
#180
Posté 10 septembre 2014 - 08:34
Master Warder Z_
-
- Members
- 19 819 messages
the inclusion of gay and Bi-sexual romances without any real objections from anyone for example
Many cultures throughout history have had little issue with the taking of a lover of the same sex.
but I don't think BioWare's politics or message is anything but vague.
Their politics, their message shift to whatever gets them a wider market basis.
Its a for profit company.
#181
Posté 10 septembre 2014 - 08:36
Mystranna Kelteel
-
- Members
- 9 662 messages
I think murdering a signifiant portion (thousands) of the Elven population of a city certainly qualifies. They are a racial minority. The intention was to end the rebellion by destroying most of the participants, i.e. committing genocide.
I disagree. Killing thousands of elves to quell a rebellion was not done with the intent to destroy the elves as a race, in part or [especially] as a whole. By that token, Gaspard killing thousands of Celene's human troops is not genocide.
The in part section of the attached definition is far too vague here; strictly adhering to that one could argue that killing two elves could be termed genocide because they are "part" of the race.
- DragonDroppings aime ceci
#182
Guest_..._*
Posté 10 septembre 2014 - 08:37
Guest_..._*
Guest_..._*
-
- Guests
That's fair enough, but that argument could easily be made for the other side of the coin as well in many cases. Sure, gamers are usually younger and therefore more liberal, but I seriously doubt David Gaider (the lead writer of Dragon Age) is sitting at home watching Bill O'Reily every night. Now Patrick Weekes wrote this book. but his tweets also suggest at least a socially left view.
#183
Posté 10 septembre 2014 - 08:44
Master Warder Z_
-
- Members
- 19 819 messages
That's fair enough, but that argument could easily be made for the other side of the coin as well in many cases. Sure, gamers are usually younger and therefore more liberal, but I seriously doubt David Gaider (the lead writer of Dragon Age) is sitting at home watching Bill O'Reily every night. Now Patrick Weekes wrote this book. but his tweets also suggest at least a socially left view.
This has all of nothing to do with the product they produce.
From what i can tell? There is little to no indicator their personal lives impact what they write in any broad way.
If you are to going claim that their views color Thedas, provide citations to that effect or cease claiming it.
Because ultimately, this isn't interesting to me nor is it something i truly care to speak of.
#184
Posté 10 septembre 2014 - 08:48
DragonDroppings
-
- Members
- 142 messages
When did this become about real life politics? 
#185
Posté 10 septembre 2014 - 08:50
Master Warder Z_
-
- Members
- 19 819 messages
When did this become about real life politics?
What would you prefer it to back to harping on how horrible Gaspard is?
The man is your future emperor!
Be respectful.
#186
Guest_..._*
Posté 10 septembre 2014 - 08:52
Guest_..._*
Guest_..._*
-
- Guests
This has all of nothing to do with the product they produce.
From what i can tell? There is little to no indicator their personal lives impact what they write in any broad way.
If you are to going claim that their views color Thedas, provide citations to that effect or cease claiming it.
Because ultimately, this isn't interesting to me nor is it something i truly care to speak of.
You're not a writer are you? It's very difficult to write without imbuing some bias into it. You can try and I really respect it when artitsts do, but at the same time the most influential pieces of someone's work are usually those shaped by their views. George Carlin wouldn't have been anywhere near as legendary as he is if he didn't insert his views on religion and politics into his act.
#187
Guest_john_sheparrd_*
Posté 10 septembre 2014 - 09:15
Guest_john_sheparrd_*
Guest_john_sheparrd_*
-
- Guests
Gaspard actually has backbone to stand up to others, Celene bends whichever the way the wind blows.
Gaspard has a code of conduct that he refuses to break, Celene butchered elves because racist nobles thought she was too soft on them.
Celene is weak against opposition, Gaspard has plans to unite the nation and nationalize the Circles
down with the Empress
agree Team Gaspard for life!! Damm I hope there is an option to put him on the throne I will be pissed if not
Celene was also very annoying with her whole drama with Briala
#188
Guest_..._*
Posté 10 septembre 2014 - 09:17
Guest_..._*
Guest_..._*
-
- Guests
I honestly don't understand people. First Harrowmont, now this. People prefer ****** tyrants to people who are genuine in their desire for peace.
- DragonDroppings aime ceci
#189
Guest_john_sheparrd_*
Posté 10 septembre 2014 - 09:18
Guest_john_sheparrd_*
Guest_john_sheparrd_*
-
- Guests
She was in a complicated position. One which Gaspard instigated. He manipulated the genocide of the elves, all to look better in everyone's eyes. Do you not remember when he threatened to burn down Halamshiral? He would bring war upon all of Orlais because of his ego.
You call it honor, I call it treason.
whatever its your opinion but trying to blame the massacre at halamshiral on Gaspard is just wrong
Celene ordered it and thats it Gaspard may have done the same but he woudn't have looked so
hyprocritical I mean she says she wants to help elves but the second she is backed into a cornor she gives up her
ideas and loyalty
Gaspard at least openly admits: he doesn't give a **** about the "knife-ears" or the mages and templars or having good relations with Ferelden even though I don't agree with him on everything he would be a much better ruler
#190
Posté 10 septembre 2014 - 09:19
Mihura
-
- Members
- 1 484 messages
We're told about this many times but we never actually see Celene being that good at the game
The point of any story is to show, not to tell. I don't care how often the author calls his character brilliant if he doesn't show that
And mistakes and weaknesses Celene demonstrated made me question how she even survived in that society
Heck, if it wasn't for Felassan all of her little team would be dead by the middle of a book or earlier
So much brilliance
I agree actually with this to some degree, actually it seems Briala is a better player overall. I think the problem with Celene is not that she is a bad player per se but she is a different person, from that time when she toke the throne. Briala in more ways than not, is a weak link and Gaspard had the luck to exploit that even without knowing the full extent of it.
For example nothing would had happen if she had accept Gaspard marriage proposal or killed him at the spot at that time. The problem is that she was a better person in a lot of aspect because of Briala and that made her vulnerable.
#191
Posté 10 septembre 2014 - 09:20
Grand Admiral Cheesecake
-
- Members
- 5 704 messages
I honestly don't understand people. First Harrowmont, now this. People prefer ****** tyrants to people who are genuine in their desire for peace.
Yes because the backwards thinking bigoted as **** Harrowmont looks soooo good compared to God Tier forward thinking Bhelen.
- Drasanil et Steelcan aiment ceci
#192
Posté 10 septembre 2014 - 09:20
Patchwork
-
- Members
- 2 585 messages
I'd say I wish we could end the rebellion by marrying them but I fear for the rest of Thedas if those two worked together instead of against one another.
#193
Guest_..._*
Posté 10 septembre 2014 - 09:21
Guest_..._*
Guest_..._*
-
- Guests
Celene can't help the elves off of the throne and if she didn't act that's exactly what would've happened. No, I don't condone what she did, but Gaspard would have done it. Those poor elves didn't have a shot and Celene knew it; her remaining on the throne however means that equality can still be achieved.
- DragonDroppings aime ceci
#194
Guest_..._*
Posté 10 septembre 2014 - 09:23
Guest_..._*
Guest_..._*
-
- Guests
Yes because the backwards thinking bigoted as **** Harrowmont looks soooo good compared to God Tier forward thinking Bhelen.
Forward thinking? It's made pretty clear people are miserable under Bhelen (shocking! the guy who would murder one brother and set up the other is a dick), despite his "progress." Harrowmont may have not been the most progressive choice, but at least he wasn't a terrible person.
- DragonDroppings aime ceci
#195
Posté 10 septembre 2014 - 09:24
Grand Admiral Cheesecake
-
- Members
- 5 704 messages
Forward thinking? It's made pretty clear people are miserable under Bhelen, despite his "progress."
I'm sure the Casteless are just miserable....
The NOBLES are miserable under Bhelen. The same group that has been slowly driving their own poeple towards extinction with their outdated traditions and backassward thinking.
- Drasanil, Master Warder Z_, Steelcan et 2 autres aiment ceci
#196
Posté 10 septembre 2014 - 09:24
leaguer of one
-
- Members
- 9 995 messages
Yea, after the Masked Empire it will take an AMAZING amount to persuade me to side with Celene.
Team Gaspard all the way.
Team burn them all.
Who's with me?
- Patchwork aime ceci
#197
Posté 10 septembre 2014 - 09:31
DragonDroppings
-
- Members
- 142 messages
I'm sure the Casteless are just miserable....
The NOBLES are miserable under Bhelen. The same group that has been slowly driving their own poeple towards extinction with their outdated traditions and backassward thinking.
The Casteless are still casteless under bhelen, what's your point?
#198
Posté 10 septembre 2014 - 09:34
Grand Admiral Cheesecake
-
- Members
- 5 704 messages
The Casteless are still casteless under bhelen, what's your point?
Limited rights in exchange for military service son! Closer trade relations with the surface son! Abandoning Orzammar's self destructive traditions to drag them kicking and screaming into the modern age!
What the **** does Harrowmont do that can compare?
- Drasanil, Chari et Master Warder Z_ aiment ceci
#199
Guest_..._*
Posté 10 septembre 2014 - 09:35
Guest_..._*
Guest_..._*
-
- Guests
I'm not for a caste system, but I'm even less for a autocracy. Hitler did a lot of "good" things before he started putting people into furnaces after being given more power.
And hindsight is an even worse reason to put Bhelen on the throne; no one--especially dwarf nobles--thought that guy was good on their first play through. Maybe they put him on the throne based on the way he sold himself, but it's not the old racist status quo guy vs. the progressive like you're making it out to be.
- DragonDroppings aime ceci
#200
Posté 10 septembre 2014 - 09:35
DragonDroppings
-
- Members
- 142 messages
Limited rights in exchange for military service son! Closer trade relations with the surface son! Abandoning Orzammar's self destructive traditions to drag them kicking and screaming into the modern age!
What the **** does Harrowmont do that can compare?
Why don't you calm down that vulgarity.
