635 réponses à ce sujet

[Br3admax]

Both have benefits both have severe faults

What the Chantry does to mages:

 

1. Free room and board

2. Protection

3. Education

4. Advising royalty

5. Allowed to use magic and study the arcane.

6. Allowed to traverse the Fade so their choosing. 

7. Rule themselves.

 

What the Qun does to mages:

 

1. Cut off their horns

2. Sew their mouths shut

3. Chain them in giant suits of armor

4. Place them under hypnotic control and use them as living weapons. 

5. Rob them of advancement.

6. Treat them like living demons.

7. Kill them if their handler dies for any reason at all.

 

It's totes the same and relatively equal, bro. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

Yes, well, I'm hanging around with a Qunari spy, a sexy Orlesian assassin, a Apostate Witch of the Wilds, and some Templars so who am I to talk?

Good point. XD

[Icy Magebane]

again i fully understand the situation and it irresponsible to ignore them. Since qunari wars the chantry's zealots(not blaming chantry just certain extremists) have antagonize them causing minor conflicts. I get the qunari are a very dangerous threat but again acting like all of them wish war is a bit rash. Look at tallis she gives a alternate view of qunari life. And we've only seen warriors and the destructive elements of their way of life

It doesn't really matter what they wish for, when the Triumvirate says it's time to go to war, that's what's going to happen.  The various human nations of Thedas would probably still work together when that happens to drive them off, but I'd prefer it if a neutral party like the Chantry was behind the scenes organizing things.  I wouldn't put it past one nation or another to let a rival sustain heavy damage and then move their armies in to "help."  Aside from the lack of a unified force in the form of an Exalted March, removing the Chantry and disbanding the Templars will radically change the power structure of Thedas, and the various nations might still be in a state of disarray when the Qunari arrive.  This all sound's kind of risky to me...

[raging_monkey]

What the Chantry does to mages: 1. Free room and board2. Protection3. Education4. Advising royalty5. Allowed to use magic and study the arcane.6. Allowed to traverse the Fade so their choosing. 7. Rule themselves. What the Qun does to mages: 1. Cut off their horns2. Sew their mouths shut3. Chain them in giant suits of armor4. Place them under hypnotic control and use them as living weapons. 5. Rob them of advancement.6. Treat them like living demons.7. Kill them if their handler dies for any reason at all. It's totes the same and relatively equal, bro.

i was being neutral my point i was trying to make was that theres no easy answer on who's right or wrong. I don't seek to change anyone's view because they are understable just attempting to bring a bit of moderation my friend

[raging_monkey]

It doesn't really matter what they wish for, when the Triumvirate says it's time to go to war, that's what's going to happen.  The various human nations of Thedas would probably still work together when that happens to drive them off, but I'd prefer it if a neutral party like the Chantry was behind the scenes organizing things.  I wouldn't put it past one nation or another to let a rival sustain heavy damage and then move their armies in to "help."  Aside from the lack of a unified force in the form of an Exalted March, removing the Chantry and disbanding the Templars will radically change the power structure of Thedas, and the various nations might still be in a state of disarray when the Qunari arrive.  This all sound's kind of risky to me...

i said nothing of dismantlement of templars or the chantry

[Icy Magebane]

i said nothing of dismantlement of templars or the chantry

Well, I don't want to be totally off topic and only talk about the Qunari... the thread is called "Should We Let the Chantry Fall?"  I figured I'd tie in the topic to the conversation we were having.

[Br3admax]

i was being neutral my point i was trying to make was that theres no easy answer on who's right or wrong. I don't seek to change anyone's view because they are understable just attempting to bring a bit of moderation my friend

If it's not clear who's right and wrong between autonomy and torture, there's a problem. 

[raging_monkey]

Oh thank you then i got caught up in it

While on the subject arent marches essentially crusades that ofyen call for a purge of a different idealogy?

[raging_monkey]

If it's not clear who's right and wrong between autonomy and torture, there's a problem.

one could argue that for mage and templar.. not i of course im a poor rhetorictian

[Br3admax]

Oh thank you then i got caught up in it

While on the subject arent marches essentially crusades that ofyen call for a purge of a different idealogy?

Ugh. No, they're a call for humanity to bind together for a certain cause. 

one could argue that for mage and templar.. not i of course im a poor rhetorictian

No, you really can't. There's no reason for extremism of either side to exist. 

[Icy Magebane]

Oh thank you then i got caught up in it

While on the subject arent marches essentially crusades that ofyen call for a purge of a different idealogy?

They are basically a way to rally all of the national human armies of Thedas (excluding Tevinter of course) under a single banner for a common goal.  They have typically been used to defend the Chantry's interests, such as when the Free Marches city-state of Starkhaven was conquered by Tevinter.

[raging_monkey]

Mmm if so many things can be a threat to there interest

[Icy Magebane]

Mmm if so many things can be a threat to there interest

Well, I'm sure you can interpret them however you like, but the fact is that they have only been called against the Dales, the Tevinter Imperium, and the Qunari, all of which are aggressive factions that seek to undermine the rule of nations where the White Chantry is the common faith.

[Mihura]

Personally I think there is room for the Chantry but only if they change their views of mages, otherwise it is probably gonna to fall outside of Tevinter. Kinda ironic if indeed the only place that remains is in there.

For my character that is a dwarf, she founds the system a mess. It is not practical nor organized, she think it is a waste of time to believe in some form of life superior to yourself in an abstract way. Even if she is a surface dwarf, she was created in a paragon kind of mentality, looking for the best in people and elevate that as a standard for society.

 

Also admires the way people seems to be at peace with lies like that but she does not deliberate confront people with that. If she can get benefits and more strong companions and followers, it does not matter what they believe. Of course if the Chantry starts to be too problematic, she will happily bring it down, otherwise she is going to be neutral if possible, when it comes to it's downfall. 

[raging_monkey]

Well, I'm sure you can interpret them however you like, but the fact is that they have only been called against the Dales, the Tevinter Imperium, and the Qunari, all of which are aggressive factions that seek to undermine the rule of nations where the White Chantry is the common faith.

true but history is often wriiten by the victors but i will cede the point to you

[Magdalena11]

The Chantry is part of life for everyday people, and if it's allowed to self-destruct, something potentially more oppressive is likely to take its place.  It needs to stay out of politics, and not force Andrasteism on non-humans.  The elves, dwarves, and qunari have their own belief systems and don't need another.  If they want one, fine, the Chantry should welcome, not invade.  There also needs to be a way to separate the mages and templars.  Let each of those groups govern themselves, separate from the Chantry and each other.

[Br3admax]

When did the Chantry force Andrastianism on anyone? The surface dwarves aren't force to be Andrastian. The Alienages have giant elven trees in them, and the qunari are allowed to go where they please. Second, the Templars are here only to guard mages, why should they not be a part of the Chantry. The Circle was made by Chantry mages, why should they leave the Church they help start? I honestly feel like no one actually researches this stuff, they just come on the forums and spout what they hear from radicals in game. 

[LobselVith8]

Not even I think we will be completely able to eradicate them. That being said I hope we have options to weak their influence, perhaps, have Inquisition take over roles originally held by the chantry. Forbid them to raise an military force in their name would be an step in the right direction. 

 

That seems to be a possibility so far, since the Inquisitor can help either the templars or the mages win the war (as Cameron Lee said), and bring the respective faction into the Inquisition. Given the apparent impotence of the Chantry and the mention of the Inquisitor reaching out to Orzammar for an alliance, it's possible the main character can take over the lyrium trade that will be needed by their militant arm.

 

The (possible) acceptance of "heathen" allies (with the Avvar in SP and the Dalish emissary in MP known so far) could also have an impact, by setting the course for the Inquisition accepting non-Andrastians and their faiths (which may also be a factor for the Dalish, Dwarven, and Vashoth Inquisitor who takes the helm of the organization as it's leader).

[raging_monkey]

When did the Chantry force Andrastianism on anyone? The surface dwarves aren't force to be Andrastian. The Alienages have giant elven trees in them, and the qunari are allowed to go where they please. Second, the Templars are here only to guard mages, why should they not be a part of the Chantry. The Circle was made by Chantry mages, why should they leave the Church they help start? I honestly feel like no one actually researches this stuff, they just come on the forums and spout what they hear from radicals in game.

i read the lore but often reading gives opinions to some. Am i a lore wizard no but i try to contribute best i can. And radicals on rare (very rare) occasion make sense to some. While one can dislike the whole chantry structure most will agree that its a nessacary evil that should be either reformed or kept the status qou(prefer the latter personally)

[Mabari-Master]

When did the Chantry force Andrastianism on anyone? The surface dwarves aren't force to be Andrastian. The Alienages have giant elven trees in them, and the qunari are allowed to go where they please. Second, the Templars are here only to guard mages, why should they not be a part of the Chantry. The Circle was made by Chantry mages, why should they leave the Church they help start? I honestly feel like no one actually researches this stuff, they just come on the forums and spout what they hear from radicals in game. 

Well there was that time when they conquered the Dales and gave it to the Orlesian Empire. And the whole goal of the Chantry is to spread the Chant, their version of the Chant, to all corners of the world in the hopes of bringing the Maker back. That means converting everyone who doesn't believe in the Maker, either by preaching or by the sword.

 

Examples of people who the Chantry has subjugated or tried to would first be the elves. When the Chantry conquered them they gave them a choice, submit to human rule and the chant of light or die, those that chose neither became the Dalish. Another people is the qunari because they find their faith to be a threat, and the chant of light is virtually unknown of in Rivain. But when the Chantry discovered that mages in the Circle of Dairsmuid was teaching the local practices of magic they called for the Right of Annulment and wiped out the Circle and everyone in it.

[Br3admax]

Well there was that time when they conquered the Dales and gave it to the Orlesian Empire. And the whole goal of the Chantry is to spread the Chant, their version of the Chant, to all corners of the world in the hopes of bringing the Maker back. That means converting everyone who doesn't believe in the Maker, either by preaching or by the sword.

 

Except that doesn't happen and the Chantry didn't force anyone to convert. 

 

 

 

Examples of people who the Chantry has subjugated or tried to would first be the elves. When the Chantry conquered them they gave them a choice, submit to human rule and the chant of light or die, those that chose neither became the Dalish. 

Except they're still allowed to be elven. They chose to convert and live in alienages. No one forced them too. Before that they were content murdering people. 

 

 

Another people is the qunari because they find their faith to be a threat, and the chant of light is virtually unknown of in Rivain. But when the Chantry discovered that mages in the Circle of Dairsmuid was teaching the local practices of magic they called for the Right of Annulment and wiped out the Circle and everyone in it.

Except Rivain the country decided to do this, not the Chantry as a whole. Even now, the Riviani still have a large Qunari population.

 

#brokenrecord 

[HiroVoid]

By spreading the chant to the four corners of the earth: Does that mean to have everyone converted or to simply have Andrastian presence/preaching in the four corners of the earth.  There's a difference between people having to convert and simply having a presence there like Burkel in Orzammar.

[raging_monkey]

Except that doesn't happen and the Chantry didn't force anyone to convert. Except they're still allowed to be elven. They chose to convert and live in alienages. No one forced them too. Before that they were content murdering people. Except Rivain the country decided to do this, not the Chantry as a whole. Even now, the Riviani still have a large Qunari population. #brokenrecord

these whole chantry is bad blah blah mage v templars debates are broken records

[wcholcombe]

delete

[wcholcombe]

That seems to be a possibility so far, since the Inquisitor can help either the templars or the mages win the war (as Cameron Lee said), and bring the respective faction into the Inquisition. Given the apparent impotence of the Chantry and the mention of the Inquisitor reaching out to Orzammar for an alliance, it's possible the main character can take over the lyrium trade that will be needed by their militant arm.

 

The (possible) acceptance of "heathen" allies (with the Avvar in SP and the Dalish emissary in MP known so far) could also have an impact, by setting the course for the Inquisition accepting non-Andrastians and their faiths (which may also be a factor for the Dalish, Dwarven, and Vashoth Inquisitor who takes the helm of the organization as it's leader).

As I said, earlier in this post, I think a reformed Chantry will rise up stronger then the previously existing one. Independent of association with Orlais, still controlling the circles, but modernized heavily in the spirit of the wishes of Justinia with the removal of many of the hard liners, and a sympathetic wish to fulfill the wishes and goals of their fallen divine. 

 

I actually think Lob, that if the whole dust up with the templars and mages in Asunder hadn't occurred, you would have been quite the fan of what Justinia had planned for the Chantry.