635 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

and attacking the elves for no reason while also forcing there believes on others and abusing the rite of tranquility the chantry deserves everything they are getting and it won't be long before i join the mages destroy the templars and the chantry.

The Chantry attacks the elves after the Dales cut a swath of death and destruction through Orlais. 

They aren't forcing beliefs on anyone. The City Elves, Dwarves, and Vashoth don't have to be Andrastian. The only beliefs that are outlawed are the Elven Pantheon, as a result of the Dales-Orlais War, and the Qun, since that is a religion that forces itself on others.

And the only time Tranquility was ever confirmed to be abused was in Kirkwall in DA2, a game that was made to show the worst of both sides. Kirkwall is an outlier, not the norm. 

[Tarvesh]

Regardless of what anyone says or hopes, we won't be able to let (or force) the Chantry to fall. The Chantry is simply the church established for the Maker an his teachings, and later for Andraste as well.

What you would have to do to completely wipe it out is kill a sizable portion of Thedas; the portion that worships the Maker and Andraste.

The people are what give the Chantry it's power. Not Templars. You would also lose at least half of your fighting force the moment you decided to turn your eyes on the faithful.

[Lilaeth]

Yeah, because screw all the good things they invented and caused, let's just focus on the things modern society deems wrong about them. Who needs literature, law, hygiene, science, craftsmanship, architecture, trade, finances, engineering and art anyway?

Slavery, cultural assimilation and warmongering were practiced by literally every nation on Earth at the time. Throw in a few things like human sacrifices, infanticide and headhunting which their Northern neighbors practiced and Rome comes off as comparatively mild.

Not to mention that the Romans were far more tolerant of foreign religions and largely allowed conquered nations to retain their beliefs and culture.

Like it or not, the world would be set back a few hundred years if it weren't for the Romans.

 

The Romans didn't actually invent those things - as I said in another post, they were very good at taking things from other cultures, giving them a makeover, and pretending they'd invented them.  And my ancestors may have taken the heads of their enemies, but abominations like the Circus are far worse.  Infanticide?  The Romans abandoned babies on rubbish heaps, and passed a law to say that no baby abandoned like that could be rescued by a well-meaning passerby.   Literature, law, hygiene, science, craftsmanship, architecture, trade, finances, engineering and art?  Greece had those.  Egypt had those, so did Babylon, all earlier than Rome, the Great Thief.

 

Back to the Chantry, I think the idea of taking any input to the fate/treatment of mages away from them would be a Good Thing.  They're supposed to protect the magi, yet we've all seen that in many cases, they don't do that.  The abuse of mages goes unpunished.  And taking their babies from them is monstrous.

[TheMakergavemeswag]

The Chantry attacks the elves after the Dales cut a swath of death and destruction through Orlais. 

They aren't forcing beliefs on anyone. The City Elves, Dwarves, and Vashoth don't have to be Andrastian. The only beliefs that are outlawed are the Elven Pantheon, as a result of the Dales-Orlais War, and the Qun, since that is a religion that forces itself on others.

And the only time Tranquility was ever confirmed to be abused was in Kirkwall in DA2, a game that was made to show the worst of both sides. 

Tranquility has been abused on many ocasions since then like in the book asunder in that book we found out that a tranquill can return to normal. No the elves helped andrastate and then the chantry betrayed them and now city elves are raped beaten and treated like dirt. They are slaves and it's wrong and the only reason the mages use blood magic is because they feel liked there forced into a corner. (The qun should go as well)

[HiroVoid]

Yes.  The only reason mages ever learn blood magic is because they feel forced backed into a corner.  Sucks for Tevinter always feeling backed in their corner.

[TheMakergavemeswag]

Yes.  The only reason mages ever learn blood magic is because they feel forced backed into a corner.  Sucks for Tevinter always feeling backed in their corner.

No I mean circle mages.

[raging_monkey]

Yes.  The only reason mages ever learn blood magic is because they feel forced backed into a corner.  Sucks for Tevinter always feeling backed in their corner.

tevinter has their own cult based on that not excusing them but we've only seen slavers, and corrupted magi from them. Broad stroakes hurt us both

[X Equestris]

and attacking the elves for no reason while also forcing there believes on others and abusing the rite of tranquility the chantry deserves everything they are getting and it won't be long before i join the mages destroy the templars and the chantry.

I hope you're prepared to be disappointed. I doubt we will be allowed the option of destroying the Chantry.

The war with the Dales is an ambiguous issue, since we have no unbiased accounts of what occurred, the abuse of Tranquility appears to have been only by Ser Alrik and his followers, and I haven't seen an instance of the Chantry forcibly converting others yet. They send out missionaries, but no one is really forcing converts.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Tranquility has been abused on many ocasions since then like in the book asunder in that book we found out that a tranquill can return to normal. No the elves helped andrastate and then the chantry betrayed them and now city elves are raped beaten and treated like dirt. They are slaves and it's wrong and the only reason the mages use blood magic is because they feel liked there forced into a corner. (The qun should go as well)

They can only return to normal by letting them get possessed by a Fade entity. That's a disaster waiting to happen. But on that note, until Asunder they did not know that was possible, so how is not knowing it can be reversed an abuse?

The Dales betrayed the Chantry by launching a war. The moment the Dales attacked, any notion of comradery was gone. You can't blame the Chantry for defending itself.

The City Elves are mistreated by humans, not just the Chantry. In fact, the Chantry is one of the nicest to them by letting them become priests or even Templars as well as actually caring about them as seen in the games.

Neither City Elves, at least legally since some nobles in Orlais still do it, or Circle Mages are slaves.

Feeling cornered is not the only reason Circle mages learn blood magic. They are people, and thus fall to the same temptations like greed, pride, etc. 

[raging_monkey]

I hope you're prepared to be disappointed. I doubt we will be allowed the option of destroying the Chantry.The war with the Dales is an ambiguous issue, since we have no unbiased accounts of what occurred, the abuse of Tranquility appears to have been only by Ser Alrik and his followers, and I haven't seen an instance of the Chantry forcibly converting others yet. They send out missionaries, but no one is really forcing converts.

what about riviani qun converts mass grave? Lol that was just bad

[TTTX]

I hope you're prepared to be disappointed. I doubt we will be allowed the option of destroying the Chantry.

The war with the Dales is an ambiguous issue, since we have no unbiased accounts of what occurred, the abuse of Tranquility appears to have been only by Ser Alrik and his followers, and I haven't seen an instance of the Chantry forcibly converting others yet. They send out missionaries, but no one is really forcing converts.

The only ones they forcefully converted was the Dales and that was after the missionaries failed and the Dales apparently attacked Orlais first.

[TheMakergavemeswag]

I hope you're prepared to be disappointed. I doubt we will be allowed the option of destroying the Chantry.

The war with the Dales is an ambiguous issue, since we have no unbiased accounts of what occurred, the abuse of Tranquility appears to have been only by Ser Alrik and his followers, and I haven't seen an instance of the Chantry forcibly converting others yet. They send out missionaries, but no one is really forcing converts.

 

Why not?

[X Equestris]

The Romans didn't actually invent those things - as I said in another post, they were very good at taking things from other cultures, giving them a makeover, and pretending they'd invented them.  And my ancestors may have taken the heads of their enemies, but abominations like the Circus are far worse.  Infanticide?  The Romans abandoned babies on rubbish heaps, and passed a law to say that no baby abandoned like that could be rescued by a well-meaning passerby.   Literature, law, hygiene, science, craftsmanship, architecture, trade, finances, engineering and art?  Greece had those.  Egypt had those, so did Babylon, all earlier than Rome, the Great Thief.
 
Back to the Chantry, I think the idea of taking any input to the fate/treatment of mages away from them would be a Good Thing.  They're supposed to protect the magi, yet we've all seen that in many cases, they don't do that.  The abuse of mages goes unpunished.  And taking their babies from them is monstrous.

And Roman literature, law, hygiene, science, craftsmanship, architecture, trade, finance, engineering, and art serve as the basis for our modern versions of those things. As for infanticide, many ancient cultures abandoned children, like the Greeks. As for Rome "stealing" things, by that logic, no civilization other than the Sumerians ever invented anything because they were using prior technology as a basis for their own innovations.

You mention the treatment of mages by the Chantry. Let me ask you, how were mundanes treated by the ancient Tevinter?

[Lilaeth]

Tevinter treats everyone the way I would expect a race/nation based on Ancient Rome to treat them...  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You mention the treatment of mages by the Chantry. Let me ask you, how were mundanes treated by the ancient Tevinter?

Why just ancient Tevinter? Even today they are treated terribly, like killing a five year old boy at a party to entertain the guests. 

[TheMakergavemeswag]

look i have come to a conclusion I think that both tevinter and the chantry are in the wrong but as mother says two wrongs do not make a right so i think that both factions should be punished.

[Master Warder Z_]

what about riviani qun converts mass grave? Lol that was just bad

 

No, not really no.

 

I would have done that personally in reality without missing a beat, but that's because i know from first hand experience the danger of religious extremism brought upon by dogma.

 

The Qun is the largest threat to Thedas, in my eye even more so then Darkspawn, More then the dying Imperium.

 

More then the hillbilly elves, its an encompassing cult that will never stop until its destroyed.

 

Darkspawn are mindless rabble besides during blights, The Imperium doesn't have the resources to engage Thedas anymore, The Dalish are a ****ing joke.

 

No the real threat is the Qunari, and for the greater good of the entirety of the world, every Qunari must die.

[TheMakergavemeswag]

No, not really no.

 

I would have done that personally in reality without missing a beat, but that's because i know from first hand experience the danger of religious extremism brought upon by dogma.

 

The Qun is the largest threat to Thedas, in my eye even more so then Darkspawn, More then the dying Imperium.

 

More then the hillbilly elves, its an encompassing cult that will never stop until its destroyed.

 

Darkspawn are mindless rabble besides during blights, The Imperium doesn't have the resources to engage Thedas anymore, The Dalish are a ****ing joke.

 

No the real threat is the Qunari, and for the greater good of the entirety of the world, every Qunari must die.

 

Agreed maybe it could be a dlc?

[X Equestris]

what about riviani qun converts mass grave? Lol that was just bad

That was local elements and "Rivaini nationalists". No orders from on high. The mention of Rivaini nationalists suggests to me that that might have included non-Andrastian elements of Rivaini society who regarded the threat of the Qunari as worse than the Chantry. That doesn't excuse it, but the Chantry isn't culpable if it didn't order it.

The only ones they forcefully converted was the Dales and that was after the missionaries failed and the Dales apparently attacked Orlais first.

It wasn't even that forced since it doesn't appear that the Chantry attempted to destroy those who refused and went on to become Dalish. I would think that if they really wanted to do forced conversions, they wouldn't tolerate the continued existence of the Dalish.

Why not?

For many reasons running from the fact that most of your soldiers are Andrastian, to the difficulty in making games down the road with such wildly varying world states, to the fact that, as far as writing goes, the Chantry is a useful organization for future plots.

[Lilaeth]

look i have come to a conclusion I think that both tevinter and the chantry are in the wrong but as mother says two wrongs do not make a right so i think that both factions should be punished.

 

It would be difficult to punish them and the Chantry at the same time.  Especially with the prospect of the Qun (whose war with Tevinter has drained the imperium, but this is a good thing as they won't come after Ferelden while Tevinter is still fighting them) lurking on the sidelines.  Reform the Chantry first.

[raging_monkey]

No, not really no. I would have done that personally in reality without missing a beat, but that's because i know from first hand experience the danger of religious extremism brought upon by dogma. The Qun is the largest threat to Thedas, in my eye even more so then Darkspawn, More then the dying Imperium. More then the hillbilly elves, its an encompassing cult that will never stop until its destroyed. Darkspawn are mindless rabble besides during blights, The Imperium doesn't have the resources to engage Thedas anymore, The Dalish are a ****ing joke. No the real threat is the Qunari, and for the greater good of the entirety of the world, every Qunari must die.

curious we still talking fiction or RL just so i know how to be PC and give you a fair rebuttle. Plus i was being a wise arse lol

[Master Warder Z_]

curious we still talking fiction or RL just so i know how to be PC and give you a fair rebuttle. Plus i was being a wise arse lol

 

A Mixture of both, i have fought religious extremists in reality.

 

And Hakwe fought his share as well, even possibly being capable of bringing down Abdullah Ahmed Arishok.

 

If only every one was so successful.

[TheMakergavemeswag]

They can only return to normal by letting them get possessed by a Fade entity. That's a disaster waiting to happen. But on that note, until Asunder they did not know that was possible, so how is not knowing it can be reversed an abuse?

The Dales betrayed the Chantry by launching a war. The moment the Dales attacked, any notion of comradery was gone. You can't blame the Chantry for defending itself.

The City Elves are mistreated by humans, not just the Chantry. In fact, the Chantry is one of the nicest to them by letting them become priests or even Templars as well as actually caring about them as seen in the games.

Neither City Elves, at least legally since some nobles in Orlais still do it, or Circle Mages are slaves.

Feeling cornered is not the only reason Circle mages learn blood magic. They are people, and thus fall to the same temptations like greed, pride, etc. 

After being cured and forced to become tranquill again that is abuse.

[TTTX]

It wasn't even that forced since it doesn't appear that the Chantry attempted to destroy those who refused and went on to become Dalish. I would think that if they really wanted to do forced conversions, they wouldn't tolerate the continued existence of the Dalish.

They maybe not be actively hunted down all the time, but the Dalish are not welcomed by a lot of people and vice versa. Not to mention the templars may also hunt down the Keepers because they are mages.

[X Equestris]

look i have come to a conclusion I think that both tevinter and the chantry are in the wrong but as mother says two wrongs do not make a right so i think that both factions should be punished.

How do you intend to go about that?

My point was that people love to complain about the Chantry's handling of mages, but don't stop to think about why they do what they do. The Magisters of old are a large part of why mages are hated and feared. The fear of mages recreating something like the old Imperium is a major counter argument to mage self-rule. That may not excuse their actions, but it puts them in an understandable light, more so than just saying they do it for the kicks or because they are a religion, like some people would like to think.

While mages might suffer injustices, their quality of life is probably higher than your average Thedosian peasant.