635 réponses à ce sujet

[Algalorn]

Hi guys!

 

If the main goal is to bring back order and save thedas, it seems logical that preserve the chantry is the best option. Personally, I had more fun in the Dragon Age games protecting and allying myself with the chantry.

[TTTX]

I couldn't remember if they were confirmed or not. Thank you. 

 

I think I can already see how this is going to go. After the explosion, the Templars will blame the Mages and the Mages will blame the Templars, each thinking the other was responsible. 

You can see them in the trailer they are their at summit when the S hit the fan. Even some of the first forces (if not all of them) of inquisition is from the Templars and Seeker that was still loyal to the Chantry.

 

That's pretty much what is going to happen I think, it was a magical explosion so mages going to be blamed for it, although we do know it was some else that was behind it.

[raging_monkey]

Well i'm hoping the inquisitiion can come up with a peacefull solution with options but i know most mages don't have family so it's basically setting up the future for new mages being born we are taking baby steps.

then lets discuss baby steps rather than end goals

[Lilaeth]

Aqueducts, concrete, bound books, newspapers, highways, the Julian calendar, the Twelve Tables, the Corpus Juris Civilis, military surgery and medical support, public welfare, public health support, satire, yes even socks were invented by the Romans.

And who cares by which means it was spread, name me one pacifist ancient society.

 

The Greeks wore socks before the Romans.  They also had surgeons - Hippocrates (of the Hippocratic oath) was Greek..  The Nazca aqueducts are far older than Rome, and still in use.  There are even earlier ones in India.  Satirical papyrii have been found in Egypt, again, predating the classical authors who made their name from it.  The Corpus Juris Civilis had predecessors in other civilizations - that's just the name that the Romans gave to theirs.  The earliest concrete found so far predates Rome, to about 7000BC.  Roman historians claimed that the Celts were backward and had no culture or means of collecting scientific data. This was accepted as truth for centuries.  Then a bronze calendar was found in France. It took years to restore it and to understand it, but when they did they found it to be the most accurate calender of that time and even if used today, it is only 1/2 a day out of sequence.  It was much more advanced than the Roman system at the time, ie, the Julian calendar.  The first paved streets were build in Ur, in about 4000BC.   Need I go on?  Traditionally Rome has been believed to be the source of just about everything in Western civilisation, but really, they were not.  The information is out there.  Historians and archaeologists are discovering more of it every year. it's not bullshit.  All you have to do is read it.  And with that, I think I have bored everyone enough with this for one evening!

[Lilaeth]

then lets discuss baby steps rather than end goals

 

Treating them like people, not some kind of WMD, might be a good start?  Not locking them up, and letting them keep their children, for example?

[LobselVith8]

They can only return to normal by letting them get possessed by a Fade entity. That's a disaster waiting to happen. But on that note, until Asunder they did not know that was possible, so how is not knowing it can be reversed an abuse?

The Dales betrayed the Chantry by launching a war. The moment the Dales attacked, any notion of comradery was gone. You can't blame the Chantry for defending itself.

The City Elves are mistreated by humans, not just the Chantry.

 

According to the Chantry historical version which claims that the elves started the war, which is contradicted by the Dalish historical version that reads the Chantry started the war.

 

In fact, the Chantry is one of the nicest to them by letting them become priests or even Templars as well as actually caring about them as seen in the games.

Neither City Elves, at least legally since some nobles in Orlais still do it, or Circle Mages are slaves.

 

You're talking about the letter from Dragon Age II, which is contradicted by "The Masked Empire" that says this isn't possible, and that the Divine won't even publicly support treating the elves with equality.

[Master Warder Z_]

The Greeks wore socks before the Romans.  They also had surgeons - Hippocrates (of the Hippocratic oath) was Greek..  The Nazca aqueducts are far older than Rome, and still in use.  There are even earlier ones in India.  Satirical papyrii have been found in Egypt, again, predating the classical authors who made their name from it.  The Corpus Juris Civilis had predecessors in other civilizations - that's just the name that the Romans gave to theirs.  The earliest concrete found so far predates Rome, to about 7000BC.  Roman historians claimed that the Celts were backward and had no culture or means of collecting scientific data. This was accepted as truth for centuries.  Then a bronze calendar was found in France. It took years to restore it and to understand it, but when they did they found it to be the most accurate calender of that time and even if used today, it is only 1/2 a day out of sequence.  It was much more advanced than the Roman system at the time, ie, the Julian calendar.  The first paved streets were build in Ur, in about 4000BC.   Need I go on?  Traditionally Rome has been believed to be the source of just about everything in Western civilisation, but really, they were not.  The information is out there.  Historians and archaeologists are discovering more of it every year. it's not bullshit.  All you have to do is read it.  And with that, I think I have bored everyone enough with this for one evening!

 

I have to do it.

 

[Master Warder Z_]

You're talking about the letter from Dragon Age II, which is contradicted by "The Masked Empire" that says this isn't possible, and that the Divine won't even publicly support treating the elves with equality.

 

Gaider confirmed there are elven templars/ elves can become templars.

 

I mean crud there is a dwarven templar now, the whole city elf inequality myth is sort of debunked when it comes to the Chantry.

[Icy Magebane]

Treating them like people, not some kind of WMD, might be a good start?  Not locking them up, and letting them keep their children, for example?

I've often seen people bring this up but I don't really understand why this matters beyond pure sentimentality.  It certainly doesn't seem practical...

 

Incorporating a day care system inside the Circles would take a lot of money... aside from the obvious problem that these children would learn no practical skills to use in the real world, they would need to be taken care of from birth until at least their mid-teens.  And since Circle mages don't have actual jobs... who pays for that?  What are these non-mage children going to do when they get kicked out of the Circle with little experience of the outside world?

[raging_monkey]

Treating them like people, not some kind of WMD, might be a good start?  Not locking them up, and letting them keep their children, for example?

i will agree to allowance of child rearing if the circle is large enough. Locking them up.... ill agree to a extent if they are "model" magi they can live off grounds but still near the circle. Agree to human rights. But in return magi are still watched by templars, and all are keeped bound by phylacteries. Magi are not innocent so they should make concessions aswell

[LobselVith8]

David Gaider said this on the subject:

 

It's against the rules to perform the Rite of Tranquility without both significant provocation (provocation in this case meaning the mage in question either cannot control their magic or has shown no signs of a willingness to do so) AND the agreement of the First Enchanter (who is present as a sort of ombudsman on behalf of the mages).

 

We know from the Magi Origin that the First Enchanter can sign off on the Rite of Tranquility without seeing the evidence against the mage in question, and that the First Enchanter can feel pressured into doing so as a matter of survival in the Circle (which is what Irving talks about when he discusses Jowan's Rite, and how if it was up to him, things would be different). In the conversation, Irving admits, "Greagoir says he has proof - and eyewitness testimony - that Jowan has been practicing blood magic. I cannot say more. Were it left to me, things might be different. But the Chantry..." Irving later adds, "If you want to survive you must learn the rules and realize that sometimes, sacrifices are necessary."

[Lilaeth]

I've often seen people bring this up but I don't really understand why this matters beyond pure sentimentality.  It certainly doesn't seem practical...

 

Incorporating a day care system inside the Circles would take a lot of money... aside from the obvious problem that these children would learn no practical skills to use in the real world, they would need to be taken care of from birth until at least their mid-teens.  And since Circle mages don't have actual jobs... who pays for that?  What are these non-mage children going to do when they get kicked out of the Circle with little experience of the outside world?

 

Who pays for mages to live in the circles?  And if we go back to my idea of mage settlements, those children could be the first non-mages to live in them.  They could serve apprenticeships in trades like any other youngster does in Ferelden, then come back and set up in business, if they want to.  Yes, it would require an injection of capital to get these settlements off the ground - I say the money should come from the organisations responsible for taking mages from their families when they themselves were children.

 

And you have obviously never lost a child, or you couldn't make a statement like that, seriously.

[Lilaeth]

i will agree to allowance of child rearing if the circle is large enough. Locking them up.... ill agree to a extent if they are "model" magi they can live off grounds but still near the circle. Agree to human rights. But in return magi are still watched by templars, and all are keeped bound by phylacteries. Magi are not innocent so they should make concessions aswell

 

And who watches the watchers?  I wouldn't trust the templars, not after the abuses we saw in Kirkwall.

[Master Warder Z_]

We know from the Magi Origin that the First Enchanter can sign off on the Rite of Tranquility without seeing the evidence against the mage in question

 

Which seems to be invalidated by what Gaider added later.

[Icy Magebane]

And you have obviously never lost a child, or you couldn't make a statement like that, seriously.

Does that mean that sentimentality is clouding your judgement, then?

[raging_monkey]

And who watches the watchers?  I wouldn't trust the templars, not after the abuses we saw in Kirkwall.

Lil the kirkwall branch were extreme but magi didnt help. The point of DA 2 was the worst of both sides. If we let magi rule themselves without some non-magi input we could have a tevinter or pro-magi faction without the common peoples input

[Lilaeth]

Does that mean that sentimentality is clouding your judgement, then?

 

I prefer to think of it as humanity, or simple decency, not sentimentality.

[Master Warder Z_]

I prefer to think of it as humanity, or simple decency, not sentimentality.

 

Both of those things cannot impact the duties of a Templar.

 

He has to ward over the most dangerous beings in Thedas on a daily basis.

[Lilaeth]

Lil the kirkwall branch were extreme but magi didnt help. The point of DA 2 was the worst of both sides. If we let magi rule themselves without some non-magi input we could have a tevinter or pro-magi faction without the common peoples input

 

The abuse could happen everywhere in Thedas - we just don't know.  Thanks to the anti-mage propaganda put about by the Chantry, the common people are more or less brainwashed into thinking every mage is already a maleficar or abomination.  So some re-education is required.  There needs to be some sort of security force standing between the mages and the mundanes, I'm just not persuaded that the Templars can be that force, given the abuses in Kirkwall.  It needs to be a new, neutral force - no Chantry input.

[raging_monkey]

I prefer to think of it as humanity, or simple decency, not sentimentality.

while i sympathize with maybe even agree but we should remember that magi are capable of good we are just as capable of devastation. Ideals are great but our decisions shouldnt be based on solely ideals but logic as well

[TTTX]

And who watches the watchers?  I wouldn't trust the templars, not after the abuses we saw in Kirkwall.

That's technically the Seekers that do that.

[Lilaeth]

Both of those things cannot impact the duties of a Templar.

 

He has to ward over the most dangerous beings in Thedas on a daily basis.

 

They would be less dangerous if they weren't caged and treated like slaves.  Happier people are less resentful, and less likely to listen to the proffered blandishments of a demon.  And leaving their kids with them would actually take up time they would normally spend on magical pursuits - so surely in your view that would be a good thing?

[raging_monkey]

The abuse could happen everywhere in Thedas - we just don't know.  Thanks to the anti-mage propaganda put about by the Chantry, the common people are more or less brainwashed into thinking every mage is already a maleficar or abomination.  So some re-education is required.  There needs to be some sort of security force standing between the mages and the mundanes, I'm just not persuaded that the Templars can be that force, given the abuses in Kirkwall.  It needs to be a new, neutral force - no Chantry input.

who will fininace this not i. I am too cheap hehe. The orlaisians even agree that kirkwall was extreme so chantry propaganda isnt as strong

[X Equestris]

The Greeks wore socks before the Romans.  They also had surgeons - Hippocrates (of the Hippocratic oath) was Greek..  The Nazca aqueducts are far older than Rome, and still in use.  There are even earlier ones in India.  Satirical papyrii have been found in Egypt, again, predating the classical authors who made their name from it.  The Corpus Juris Civilis had predecessors in other civilizations - that's just the name that the Romans gave to theirs.  The earliest concrete found so far predates Rome, to about 7000BC.  Roman historians claimed that the Celts were backward and had no culture or means of collecting scientific data. This was accepted as truth for centuries.  Then a bronze calendar was found in France. It took years to restore it and to understand it, but when they did they found it to be the most accurate calender of that time and even if used today, it is only 1/2 a day out of sequence.  It was much more advanced than the Roman system at the time, ie, the Julian calendar.  The first paved streets were build in Ur, in about 4000BC.   Need I go on?  Traditionally Rome has been believed to be the source of just about everything in Western civilisation, but really, they were not.  The information is out there.  Historians and archaeologists are discovering more of it every year. it's not bullshit.  All you have to do is read it.  And with that, I think I have bored everyone enough with this for one evening!

Just because someone developed something first doesn't mean that it was all grand and perfect. What the Romans did was perfect these technologies and spread them. Other civilizations may have come up with the basic framework of these ideas, but the Romans applied them on a massive scale.

I'll just leave this here:
http://www.history.c...lt-ancient-rome

It seems that you are a little biased about the Romans and the Celts.

[Steelcan]

The abuse could happen everywhere in Thedas - we just don't know.  Thanks to the anti-mage propaganda put about by the Chantry, the common people are more or less brainwashed into thinking every mage is already a maleficar or abomination.  So some re-education is required.  There needs to be some sort of security force standing between the mages and the mundanes, I'm just not persuaded that the Templars can be that force, given the abuses in Kirkwall.  It needs to be a new, neutral force - no Chantry input.

yes we should let the actions of an isolated Circle affect a system that has worked well for over a millennia