635 réponses à ce sujet

[Lilaeth]

That's technically the Seekers that do that.

 

And what a good job they did with Meredith and Co!

[Steelcan]

They would be less dangerous if they weren't caged and treated like slaves.  Happier people are less resentful, and less likely to listen to the proffered blandishments of a demon.  And leaving their kids with them would actually take up time they would normally spend on magical pursuits - so surely in your view that would be a good thing?

well its a good thing mages aren't, despite what Anders would have you believe

[Lilaeth]

who will fininace this not i. I am too cheap hehe. The orlaisians even agree that kirkwall was extreme so chantry propaganda isnt as strong

 

Well, like I said before, who pays for the money to run the circles now?

[LobselVith8]

That's technically the Seekers that do that.

 

And yet a Knight-Commander ruled Kirkwall as the de facto Viscount for three years, who was trying to usurp control of the City Guard and even had a death squad, without the Seekers stepping in to reign in the templar. That's not exactly encouraging.

[Mistic]

We know from the Magi Origin that the First Enchanter can sign off on the Rite of Tranquility without seeing the evidence against the mage in question, and that the First Enchanter can feel pressured into doing so as a matter of survival in the Circle (which is what Irving talks about when he discusses Jowan's Rite, and how if it was up to him, things would be different). In the conversation, Irving admits, "Greagoir says he has proof - and eyewitness testimony - that Jowan has been practicing blood magic. I cannot say more. Were it left to me, things might be different. But the Chantry..." Irving later adds, "If you want to survive you must learn the rules and realize that sometimes, sacrifices are necessary."

 

Yes, but the Mage Origin also says that Greagoir was right all along. Jowan was a blood mage. In fact, after playing the Mage Origin, and then saving Irving in the Circle quest and seeing Greagoir's reaction, it's evident those two know each other well.

 

For all we know (and I repeat, we do know that the bloog magic accusation was right), Greagoir had honest eyewitnesses and collected enough evidence. Since blood magic is an incredibly serious crime in every Thedosian society (even in Tevinter is officially illegal, even if the law enforcers are too weak to punish the culprits), Jowan's punishment was clear. Maybe a kind man like Irving wanted to convince Jowan of the error of his ways, but once Greagoir knew it, the First Enchanter couldn't do anything else but to accept the Rite of Tranquility.

[Icy Magebane]

I prefer to think of it as humanity, or simple decency, not sentimentality.

Idealism at best.

 

Who pays for mages to live in the circles?  And if we go back to my idea of mage settlements, those children could be the first non-mages to live in them.  They could serve apprenticeships in trades like any other youngster does in Ferelden, then come back and set up in business, if they want to.  Yes, it would require an injection of capital to get these settlements off the ground - I say the money should come from the organisations responsible for taking mages from their families when they themselves were children.

If the Chantry loses all control over the Circles, where are they supposed to get the money to fund these reparations?  Churches get their money from donations, and previously the Circles were kept afloat by the sale of enchanted items, potions, and the like.  If the Chantry loses this additional income, they won't have the money to pay for schooling and child welfare on "mage settlements."  In fact, if we are going to accept this model, the mages can pay for their own children.  The Chantry shouldn't have to pay money to help build communities for those who rebelled and struck out on their own...  why would they, who would force them to do it, and where would the money come from? 

 

If the Circles continued as normal but with this new rule that the children of mages get to live their for 15-18 years, there wouldn't be nearly enough money coming in to finance this...  None of the problems related to what happens to these children once they come of age are resolved either... it's a logistical nightmare no matter what angle you approach it from.

[Master Warder Z_]

And yet a Knight-Commander ruled Kirkwall as the de facto Viscount for three years, who was trying to usurp control of the City Guard and even had a death squad

 

Only occurred due to Plot reasoning.

 

Inane is it is, storytrumps lore even occasionally

[Steelcan]

>kind man like Irving

>wants to make sure the Chantry loses a student like he will

[TTTX]

And what a good job they did with Meredith and Co!

We unfortunately don't know if the Seekers knew about Meredith before S hit the fans, but by the sound of Cassandra they didn't know the details of what happened in Kirkwall or at least she didn't.

[Lilaeth]

Just because someone developed something first doesn't mean that it was all grand and perfect. What the Romans did was perfect these technologies and spread them. Other civilizations may have come up with the basic framework of these ideas, but the Romans applied them on a massive scale.

I'll just leave this here:
http://www.history.c...lt-ancient-rome

It seems that you are a little biased about the Romans and the Celts.

 

And it seems that you are quite pro-Roman yourself.  We all have our blind spots.

[Steelcan]

And it seems that you are quite pro-Roman yourself.  We all have our blind spots.

AD VICTORIAM NAM ROMANAM

[X Equestris]

We unfortunately don't know if the Seekers knew about Meredith before S hit the fans, but by the sound of Cassandra they didn't know the details of what happened in Kirkwall or at least she didn't.

Many Seekers are also former-Templars, so some may overlook certain things.

[TTTX]

And yet a Knight-Commander ruled Kirkwall as the de facto Viscount for three years, who was trying to usurp control of the City Guard and even had a death squad, without the Seekers stepping in to reign in the templar. That's not exactly encouraging.

indeed, I wonder what the Seekers were doing that was so important they couldn't look at Meredith.

[Steelcan]

indeed, I wonder what the Seekers were doing that was so important they couldn't look at Meredith.

getting resurrected in isolated temples

[raging_monkey]

Well, like I said before, who pays for the money to run the circles now?

contrary to popular belief we fund ourselves the chantry is like a older over protective brother lol(that was joke to lighten the mood) anyway circle breaks off we have war chantry deciedes they arent worth the trouble we get a war better to stay isolated than trying to be apart of the world that hates you for being "gifted"

[Lilaeth]

Idealism at best.

 

If the Chantry loses all control over the Circles, where are they supposed to get the money to fund these reparations?  Churches get their money from donations, and previously the Circles were kept afloat by the sale of enchanted items, potions, and the like.  If the Chantry loses this additional income, they won't have the money to pay for schooling and child welfare on "mage settlements."  In fact, if we are going to accept this model, the mages can pay for their own children.  The Chantry shouldn't have to pay money to help build communities for those who rebelled and struck out on their own...  why would they, who would force them to do it, and where would the money come from? 

 

If the Circles continued as normal but with this new rule that the children of mages get to live their for 15-18 years, there wouldn't be nearly enough money coming in to finance this...  None of the problems related to what happens to these children once they come of age are resolved either... it's a logistical nightmare no matter what angle you approach it from.

 

The Chantry forcibly take the children and raise them in Chantry-run homes - all they have to do is leave the children with their parents and divert the money that would have gone to the homes to the Circles to pay for the children.  Letting mages have jobs to earn money would make them less dependent on Chantry funds too.  With some co-operation it could be done.  And if you want to be more pragmatic, look on it as having a bunch of hostages in the circle that can't do magic, but that the mages are emotionally tied to.

[TTTX]

Many Seekers are also former-Templars, so some may overlook certain things.

Indeed, it could also be because Lambert was in charge and he wasn't the biggest mages fan to say the least.

[Lilaeth]

AD VICTORIAM NAM ROMANAM

 

 

Romani ite domum!  

[LobselVith8]

Yes, but the Mage Origin also says that Greagoir was right all along. Jowan was a blood mage. In fact, after playing the Mage Origin, and then saving Irving in the Circle quest and seeing Greagoir's reaction, it's evident those two know each other well.

 

The Magi Origin says that Irving signed the Rite of Tranquility without even knowing what the evidence was; Jowan's guilt has nothing to do with the simple fact that Irving wasn't privy to this information, and yet was asked to sign a Rite against Jowan based on the say-so of the Knight-Commander.

 

For all we know (and I repeat, we do know that the bloog magic accusation was right), Greagoir had honest eyewitnesses and collected enough evidence. Since blood magic is an incredibly serious crime in every Thedosian society (even in Tevinter is officially illegal, even if the law enforcers are too weak to punish the culprits), Jowan's punishment was clear. Maybe a kind man like Irving wanted to convince Jowan of the error of his ways, but once Greagoir knew it, the First Enchanter couldn't do anything else but to accept the Rite of Tranquility.

 

Delegating all that power and authority to the Chantry and the templars is part of the reason why some of us strongly disagree with the status quo that was put in place for the mages. It's not as though some characters don't feel the same way; Irving, who is supposed to be a moderate in the Circle, tells the mage protagonist: "And Chantry and templars are models of magnanimity? They would make us all tranquil if they could, and call it a kindness. They fancy themselves our guardians sitting smugly on their righteousness."

[raging_monkey]

Indeed, it could also be because Lambert was in charge and he wasn't the biggest mages fan to say the least.

he was fair... a arse but fair

[Steelcan]

The Chantry forcibly take the children and raise them in Chantry-run homes - all they have to do is leave the children with their parents and divert the money that would have gone to the homes to the Circles to pay for the children.  Letting mages have jobs to earn money would make them less dependent on Chantry funds too.

the Circles earn money through enchanting services, we are never led to believe that the Circles are a money drain on the Chantry

[Ryzaki]

>kind man like Irving

>wants to make sure the Chantry loses a student like he will

 

To be fair Jowan was a complete idiot that got himself caught practicing bloodmagic. Irving's hands were pretty much tied.

 

Also the proof was eyewitness accounts no? He tells the warden this before you even go into the basement if you ask.

[Steelcan]

To be fair Jowan was a complete idiot that got himself caught practicing bloodmagic. Irving's hands were pretty much tied.

 

Also the proof was eyewitness accounts no? He tells the warden this before you even go into the basement if you ask.

he's still not a nice guy, he was fairly petty in this

[Lilaeth]

the Circles earn money through enchanting services, we are never led to believe that the Circles are a money drain on the Chantry

 

But the Chantry does spend money on raising mage children, so why not leave them with their parents?

[Neon Rising Winter]

the Circles earn money through enchanting services, we are never led to believe that the Circles are a money drain on the Chantry

And probably the key reason as to why they would not be keen to surrender them. Large organisations can be noticably reticent to lose control of major sources of income.