And it seems that you are quite pro-Roman yourself. We all have our blind spots.
Snip.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree, especially as you seem to have mis-read my post(s). I already said I was finished with this.
Technically the Circle is supposed to be its own entity with the Templars only acting as guards and liaisons from the Chantry. The Circle is supposed to have a say in how it is run and the Templars are supposed to only act or exert authority when abuse of magic is involved. But as the Chantry gained more and more influence they've held a tighter grip on the Circle Mages and have given the Templars too much authority they weren't originally supposed to have.
And now, because the Chantry screwed the pooch, they have to start over from scratch and reinstate the Inquisition to try and restore balance to a world gone mad. The Chantry gave its people too much power and didn't put a leash on them, like Meredith, High-Seeker Lambert or even Petrice! Should they even be allowed to have any authority over anything when this is done?
The most massive flaw in the Chantry is the fact that they claim to speak for the Maker and that everything they do is done with his blessing. This has caused everyone to look to the Chantry as if it has all the answers and now that its fallen, people are scrambling like decapitated chickens. I think what it needs is the Inquisition to not only restore balance but take over the Chantry's role of keeping it in balance. Like the Grey Wardens, it is an organization built towards a single goal and that goal is to keep the world in balance and from ripping itself apart.
The Chantry can remain as the heart of it religion but no longer having the same militaristic or political pull it used to have.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree, especially as you seem to have mis-read my post(s). I already said I was finished with this.
Sadly they're the only ones I bothered looking up since they are the largest mage in power culture.
But if you want to see the dalish...they too have clans that have to hunt their keepers because they go abomination. It's not often but it happens.
So what are you arguing then? You say the methods they use are subpar and offer no better examples.
Are we talking about the Circle as a way of educating mages or a way of hunting abominations, because your second example conflates the two.
And I was arguing about enforcement of consistent minimum standards among all Chantry circles. This is on reflection slightly unfair. We can assume they guarantee a student can resist possession by a demon on the day of their harrowing. None of this has a thing to do with how competent or otherwise they are to perform the task, or whether they offer a superior method of magical education.
be it qunari or magi chantry is not at whole fault its it followersTechnically the Circle is supposed to be its own entity with the Templars only acting as guards and liaisons from the Chantry. The Circle is supposed to have a say in how it is run and the Templars are supposed to only act or exert authority when abuse of magic is involved. But as the Chantry gained more and more influence they've held a tighter grip on the Circle Mages and have given the Templars too much authority they weren't originally supposed to have. And now, because the Chantry screwed the pooch, they have to start over from scratch and reinstate the Inquisition to try and restore balance to a world gone mad. The Chantry gave its people too much power and didn't put a leash on them, like Meredith, High-Seeker Lambert or even Petrice! Should they even be allowed to have any authority over anything when this is done? The most massive flaw in the Chantry is the fact that they claim to speak for the Maker and that everything they do is done with his blessing. This has caused everyone to look to the Chantry as if it has all the answers and now that its fallen, people are scrambling like decapitated chickens. I think what it needs is the Inquisition to not only restore balance but take over the Chantry's role of keeping it in balance. Like the Grey Wardens, it is an organization built towards a single goal and that goal is to keep the world in balance and from ripping itself apart. The Chantry can remain as the heart of it religion but no longer having the same militaristic or political pull it used to have.
Are we talking about the Circle as a way of educating mages or a way of hunting abominations, because your second example conflates the two.
And I was arguing about enforcement of consistent minimum standards among all Chantry circles. This is on reflection slightly unfair. We can assume they guarantee a student can resist possession by a demon on the day of their harrowing. None of this has a thing to do with how competent or otherwise they are to perform the task, or whether they offer a superior method of magical education.
Since educating mages tends to lower the amount of abominations you get...
Superior method than what? Every mage society we see has other mages (that are past a certain level of skill) teaching mages. I mean give me something better since it's apparently not good enough. All mages do not have the same level of magical ability. That is made abundantly clear. Some can barely light fires. Others like our wardens/hawkes/inquisitors are whirlwinds of magical destruction.
Oh boy, if you dislike Rome so very much, you must loathe almost every other ancient culture. Because most of them were far, far more cruel and violent, look at the Chinese, Mongols, Huns, Germans, Celts, Carthaginians, Macedonians and (many) Greek city states.
See, this is where I think you misinterpreted my main gripe with Rome - that they have either passed themselves off as the creators of a lot of stuff they didn't create, or that others gave them the credit. yes, they adapted and spread the tech - but they didn't create it. As for violent cultures, my ancestry is Scottish, Irish, Viking, Norman, English and South African. I'm lucky if I can get through a day without at least one major blow up! 
Now I'm going to make myself a sandwich, as I seem to have forgotten to make myself any dinner.
be it qunari or magi chantry is not at whole fault its it followers
Oh no, monkey, the buck stops with the Chantry. They're supposed to be in charge! It's like all those RL stories of people being abused by priests. The Church has to shoulder the blame - the abuse was done by their employee, under their auspices. Same with the Chantry and the treatment given to mages.
As for violent cultures, my ancestry is Scottish, Irish, Viking, Norman, English and South African. I'm lucky if I can get through a day without at least one major blow up!
Since educating mages tends to lower the amount of abominations you get...
Superior method than what? Every mage society we see has other mages (that are past a certain level of skill) teaching mages. I mean give me something better since it's apparently not good enough.
So we've generalised from Chantry circles, to any circle system and now to any method of educating mages whatsoever? This is all getting very nebulous.
If you read my previous comment you'll find you're discussing one of the things I mentioned as having nothing to do with my argument. My argument is related to consistency or lack thereof in the Chantry circle system.
true but who deciedes the punishment not the chantry like most groups they downplay or cover-up incidents and the inquisition isnt powerful enough to reign them in from information given and magi, elves, especially qunari fall outside their concernOh no, monkey, the buck stops with the Chantry. They're supposed to be in charge! It's like all those RL stories of people being abused by priests. The Church has to shoulder the blame - the abuse was done by their employee, under their auspices. Same with the Chantry and the treatment given to mages.
true but who deciedes the punishment not the chantry like most groups they downplay or cover-up incidents and the inquisition isnt powerful enough to reign them in from information given and magi, elves, especially qunari fall outside their concern
The Crown should decide their punishment. After all, the mages are still subjects of the Crown, so the Crown should extend them some protection. I think Alistair would agree.
considering the fact he was barred from giving the circle automony i no longer place hope in non-magi which led to my isolationist policiesThe Crown should decide their punishment. After all, the mages are still subjects of the Crown, so the Crown should extend them some protection. I think Alistair would agree.
considering the fact he was barred from giving the circle automony i no longer place hope in non-magi which led to my isolationist policies
I think he might be in a stronger bargaining position now. I suppose we'll have to wait and see how badly the conflict has affected everything/everyone. Plus my painkillers are kicking in, so my brain's not working quite as well as it was 10 minutes ago!
orlais's ground zero ans it spread to fereldan enough to the point of a peace brokering so idk still think the isolationists were rightI think he might be in a stronger bargaining position now. I suppose we'll have to wait and see how badly the conflict has affected everything/everyone.
orlais's ground zero ans it spread to fereldan enough to the point of a peace brokering so idk still think the isolationists were right
When this is all over, there might not be enough people and/or infrastructure left to do anything but huddle together in the ruins. 
hopefully but if somebody eats my bannanas its gonna start againWhen this is all over, there might not be enough people and/or infrastructure left to do anything but huddle together in the ruins.
So we've generalised from Chantry circles, to any circle system and now to any method of educating mages whatsoever? This is all getting very nebulous.
If you read my previous comment you'll find you're discussing one of the things I mentioned as having nothing to do with my argument. My argument is related to consistency or lack thereof in the Chantry circle system.
*sigh* My first point was the Chantry system was functional and had a basic mage teaching other mage that you see in every other mage society in the game.
Alright. That's fair. So basically we're arguing two different points and my time is better spent elsewhere.
considering the fact he was barred from giving the circle automony i no longer place hope in non-magi which led to my isolationist policies
hopefully but if somebody eats my bannanas its gonna start again
What if somebody destroys all the banana trees??? 
And on that note, g'night all!!
hold up my friend chantry didnt let merideth rule they just stayed neutral and how would it look if the chantry did step in? Just to some but like it or not merideth kept the power vaccum in check. I dislike their practices on magi and uniformity but sometimes they are right
The Chantry did get involved with a trade dispute with Dumar's predecessor. He was taxing Orlesians more than other countries, so the Chantry ordered Meredith's predecessor, Knight-Commander...er, forgot his name to get involved and help Orlais out. He said no, it was not a templar's duty to get involved with politics.
This little exchange however had the Viscount kill him and attempt to drive out the templars from Kirkwall entirely. Meredith took control of the Templars as she was Knight-Captain, led the assault and arrested him. He was tried and sentenced by Elthina and Dumar was selected as the new Viscount. It was kind of an open secret however that Meredith was in charge unofficially, even before Hawke arrived.
Hawke: Knight-Commander's orders? That's a templar title.
Guard: Well Dumar may be Viscount, but Meredith is the power in Kirkwall. I'd hate to see what would happen if he did something she didn't want.
This little exchange is before Act 1 even starts.
That was before the Breach and the rise of the Inquisition. Things seem to be different in now, with the Inquisitor able to support either Lambert's templars or Fiona's mages and bring them into the Inquisition as an ally; supporting mages fighting for their autonomy from the Chantry seems like it's now become a viable path to pursue.
do we know if Lambert or Fiona are actually still alive?
Wiping them both out would allow the war to end more easily with the factions being weakened
never said they were right in kirkwall all the time. Sides wasnt really referingbto act 3 anything prior is hard to prove since most pro chantry/templars will omit or just rationalize.The Chantry did get involved with a trade dispute with Dumar's predecessor. He was taxing Orlesians more than other countries, so the Chantry ordered Meredith's predecessor, Knight-Commander...er, forgot his name to get involved and help Orlais out. He said no, it was not a templar's duty to get involved with politics. This little exchange however had the Viscount kill him and attempt to drive out the templars from Kirkwall entirely. Meredith took control of the Templars as she was Knight-Captain, led the assault and arrested him. He was tried and sentenced by Elthina and Dumar was selected as the new Viscount. It was kind of an open secret however that Meredith was in charge unofficially, even before Hawke arrived. Hawke: Knight-Commander's orders? That's a templar title.Guard: Well Dumar may be Viscount, but Meredith is the power in Kirkwall. I'd hate to see what would happen if he did something she didn't want. This little exchange is before Act 1 even starts.
do we know if Lambert or Fiona are actually still alive?
Wiping them both out would allow the war to end more easily with the factions being weakened
Lambert is still missing in action after his run in with Cole at the end of Asunder. Which has a probability of meaning that he will show up in Inquisition as a surprise for certain people.
Fiona is needed to be alive in order to fulfill what Gaider said about Alistair's parentage being addressed. The only three who know she is his mother is Duncan, Fiona, and Maric, and Duncan and Maric are dead by Inquisition leaving her the only one who knows.
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