635 réponses à ce sujet

[BlueMagitek]

Lambert is still missing in action after his run in with Cole at the end of Asunder. Which has a probability of meaning that he will show up in Inquisition as a surprise for certain people. 

 

Fiona is needed to be alive in order to fulfill what Gaider said about Alistair's parentage being addressed. The only three who know she is his mother is Duncan, Fiona, and Maric, and Duncan and Maric are dead by Inquisition leaving her the only one who knows. 

 

I don't think that's necessarily true.  If Alistair is dead (either through sacrifice by Warden or thrown into the dungeons) I see zero reason for parentage to come up.   It would be interesting if she was alive or dead depending on your choices, but she may be too plot relevant for that.

 

I mean, are we imagining now something like :

 

Inquisitor : So tell me your life story.

Fiona : I was born a slave in Orlais and.... until I had a trist with King Maric and became pregnant.... until I became the Grand Enchanter, and then I found out he had died in the Fifth Blight.

Inquisitor : ...Relevance!

[dragonflight288]

never said they were right in kirkwall all the time. Sides wasnt really referingbto act 3 anything prior is hard to prove since most pro chantry/templars will omit or just rationalize.

 

You're right, but I was pointing out that the Chantry isn't really that neutral. They get involved in national politics, especially when Orlesian interests are there. 

[BlueMagitek]

You're right, but I was pointing out that the Chantry isn't really that neutral. They get involved in national politics, especially when Orlesian interests are there. 

 

This is true.  However, it does, from what I've seen, ensure that there's neutrality for the Circle; it prevents the nobility from abusing the mages' abilities.

 

By that I mean Monarch Bob can't order Circle Dreamer Lora to sleep-murder his enemies.

[raging_monkey]

You're right, but I was pointing out that the Chantry isn't really that neutral. They get involved in national politics, especially when Orlesian interests are there.

tch the chantry should stay out of politics and just do their attempts to control magi

[dragonflight288]

This is true.  However, it does, from what I've seen, ensure that there's neutrality for the Circle; it prevents the nobility from abusing the mages' abilities.

 

By that I mean Monarch Bob can't order Circle Dreamer Lora to sleep-murder his enemies.

 

Dreamers are very rare. Feynriel is one of the only ones in four centuries to survive in the White Chantry lands. They're more common in Tevinter. 

 

While your point is a good one, it's also one that, in the case of Somniari, isn't that applicable because of their scarcity in surviving. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't think that's necessarily true.  If Alistair is dead (either through sacrifice by Warden or thrown into the dungeons) I see zero reason for parentage to come up.   It would be interesting if she was alive or dead depending on your choices, but she may be too plot relevant for that.

 

I mean, are we imagining now something like :

 

Inquisitor : So tell me your life story.

Fiona : I was born a slave in Orlais and.... until I had a trist with King Maric and became pregnant.... until I became the Grand Enchanter, and then I found out he had died in the Fifth Blight.

Inquisitor : ...Relevance!

I haven't imagined how it would go. All I know is that when talking to Lady Insanity he said that the "Fiona is Alistair's mother" will be addressed in Inquisition. And since she is the only person alive who knows that, she is most likely alive. 

Chances are it only comes up if Alistair is alive. I'd like to think they have a touching mother-son moment, but I'm not getting set on ideas. 

[dragonflight288]

tch the chantry should stay out of politics and just do their attempts to control magi

 

Or simply be a religion. 

[BlueMagitek]

Dreamers are very rare. Feynriel is one of the only ones in four centuries to survive in the White Chantry lands. They're more common in Tevinter. 

 

While your point is a good one, it's also one that, in the case of Somniari, isn't that applicable because of their scarcity in surviving. 

You seem to be focusing a bit too much on that I used a Dreamer.

 

Okay, Monarch Bob is now aware that there aren't that many Dreamers.  So he is now prevented from having Circle Enchanter Blood Magic one of his political enemies into completely supporting him and then committing suicide to remove the problem.

 

Edit:

 

My point is that the Chantry does (or at least attempts to) prevent magical abuses by the state from happening.

[raging_monkey]

Or simply be a religion.

do they even keep the qunari in check cause the chantry zealots started the fight with qunari

[BlueMagitek]

I haven't imagined how it would go. All I know is that when talking to Lady Insanity he said that the "Fiona is Alistair's mother" will be addressed in Inquisition. And since she is the only person alive who knows that, she is most likely alive. 

Chances are it only comes up if Alistair is alive. I'd like to think they have a touching mother-son moment, but I'm not getting set on ideas. 

 

I'm actually a bit tired on Alistair, but to each their own.

[Shadow Fox]

I haven't imagined how it would go. All I know is that when talking to Lady Insanity he said that the "Fiona is Alistair's mother" will be addressed in Inquisition. And since she is the only person alive who knows that, she is most likely alive. 

Chances are it only comes up if Alistair is alive. I'd like to think they have a touching mother-son moment, but I'm not getting set on ideas. 

I'd like to think he'd ram his sword though her gut for abandoning him.

[BlueMagitek]

I'd like to think he'd ram his sword though her gut for abandoning him.

 

She did leave the Wardens.  Duncan certainly showed Alistair what to do to people who tried to back out of simply joining the organization. 

[dragonflight288]

You seem to be focusing a bit too much on that I used a Dreamer.

 

Okay, Monarch Bob is now aware that there aren't that many Dreamers.  So he is now prevented from having Circle Enchanter Blood Magic one of his political enemies into completely supporting him and then committing suicide to remove the problem.

 

Edit:

 

My point is that the Chantry does (or at least attempts to) prevent magical abuses by the state from happening.

 

This is true. At times it seems to be taken excessively far. I mean, only seven mages were allowed to go to Ostagar when the King was calling for an army. 

[raging_monkey]

This is true. At times it seems to be taken excessively far. I mean, only seven mages were allowed to go to Ostagar when the King was calling for an army.

its a horde of diseased monsters. Less than 7 is insulting. But in hindsight damn

[BlueMagitek]

This is true. At times it seems to be taken excessively far. I mean, only seven mages were allowed to go to Ostagar when the King was calling for an army. 

 

Which very well may have saved the population of the Circle, at least for a time, given how terribly Ostagar went.   Though, in that situation, it could have had to do with the Templars.  More mages assisting against darkspawn means more Templar to guard them from the darkspawn and the soldiers in the camp as well as to potentially stop them from fleeing, which is really difficult mid battle.  It also exposes the Templars to the taint.  All in all, fighting against Darkspawn is a bad situation for everybody.

 

And before we get into this : no, more mages wouldn't have done anything given the battle plan.

[Shadow Fox]

She did leave the Wardens.  Duncan certainly showed Alistair what to do to people who tried to back out of simply joining the organization. 

*in the Fade*

 

Duncan: "That's my boy!"

 

*Maric, Katriel, Rowan, Cailan, Loghain and Riorden all back away*

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'd like to think he'd ram his sword though her gut for abandoning him.

That wouldn't stop her, and you know it.

 

She did leave the Wardens.  Duncan certainly showed Alistair what to do to people who tried to back out of simply joining the organization. 

She only left because she was cured of the Taint. You can't be a Warden without it. 

[BlueMagitek]

She only left because she was cured of the Taint. You can't be a Warden without it. 

 

Fortunately it's very, very easy to gain that problem.

 

Also, Ser Jory hadn't acquired the taint yet, he only backed out when he heard that's what you had to do to join.

 

Fiona, on the other hand, not only had that knowledge, but I'm sure a number of other Warden secrets (given that she's a mage, almost certainly that blood magic is required for the Joining, which is probably a greater problem than what Jory knew).  Much greater security threat than random knight #5.

[dragonflight288]

Which very well may have saved the population of the Circle, at least for a time, given how terribly Ostagar went.   Though, in that situation, it could have had to do with the Templars.  More mages assisting against darkspawn means more Templar to guard them from the darkspawn and the soldiers in the camp as well as to potentially stop them from fleeing, which is really difficult mid battle.  It also exposes the Templars to the taint.  All in all, fighting against Darkspawn is a bad situation for everybody.

 

And before we get into this : no, more mages wouldn't have done anything given the battle plan.

 

Uldred: Your majesty, the tower and its beacon are unncessary, the Circle is prepared to-

Grand Cleric: We will not trust any spells to your lives mage! Save them for the darkspawn. 

 

or a dialogue between Wynne and Loghain that roughly goes like this. And I'm paraphrasing. 

 

Wynne: You abandoned your king and left him to die. 

Loghain. You did the same thing. Why didn't you try and help him. 

Wynne: I was by myself. I didn't have an army to back me up.

Loghain: And I didn't have any magic to help wipe out enough of the horde to get through them in time. Hypocrite. 

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, but Chantry prejudice did play a large part in why so few mages were there and how much/little they could actually participate, and that in turn was part of why things went fubar. By far, not the only reason. I actually am a proponent of Loghain's retreat there as I also felt it was the best course of action at the time. 

[raging_monkey]

Uldred: Your majesty, the tower and its beacon are unncessary, the Circle is prepared to-Grand Cleric: We will not trust any spells to your lives mage! Save them for the darkspawn.  or a dialogue between Wynne and Loghain that roughly goes like this. And I'm paraphrasing.  Wynne: You abandoned your king and left him to die. Loghain. You did the same thing. Why didn't you try and help him. Wynne: I was by myself. I didn't have an army to back me up.Loghain: And I didn't have any magic to help wipe out enough of the horde to get through them in time. Hypocrite.  I'm not saying you're wrong, but Chantry prejudice did play a large part in why so few mages were there and how much/little they could actually participate, and that in turn was part of why things went fubar. By far, not the only reason. I actually am a proponent of Loghain's retreat there as I also felt it was the best course of action at the time.

tactical retreat but chantru should be good for belief aside from that keep it away from magi

[BlueMagitek]

Uldred: Your majesty, the tower and its beacon are unncessary, the Circle is prepared to-

Grand Cleric: We will not trust any spells to your lives mage! Save them for the darkspawn. 

 

or a dialogue between Wynne and Loghain that roughly goes like this. And I'm paraphrasing. 

 

Wynne: You abandoned your king and left him to die. 

Loghain. You did the same thing. Why didn't you try and help him. 

Wynne: I was by myself. I didn't have an army to back me up.

Loghain: And I didn't have any magic to help wipe out enough of the horde to get through them in time. Hypocrite. 

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, but Chantry prejudice did play a large part in why so few mages were there and how much/little they could actually participate, and that in turn was part of why things went fubar. By far, not the only reason. I actually am a proponent of Loghain's retreat there as I also felt it was the best course of action at the time. 

 

I'm not saying there's no distrust.  Though, you know, the Grand Cleric was completely spot on about not trusting Uldred's spells. >_>

 

I also wouldn't take Loghain and Wynne's banter too seriously, because they have quite a dislike for each other.  Especially looking back at the cinematic; how many fireballs, storms and various other spells are necessary to hold off the tide long enough for Loghain and his army to march down the cliff, get to Cailan and the Wardens and back?  I don't think it was possible in that circumstance.   But we aren't going to get anywhere with this, so I'm just going to concede the point. 

 

The Chantry (or just the Templar) only allowed for 7 mages to join the King to fight off what was meant to be a darkspawn raiding party.  This resulted in there not being a significant amount of mages and templar on the battlefield when everything went to hell, because, surprise, turns out it was a blight.

[dragonflight288]

*shrug* I can't really argue with your points as they are quite valid, but they don't really address mine. 

 

Chanry prejudice, or even just templar prejudice is keeping so few mages away from the battlefield. Even though no one believed it was a blight, the King WAS calling for an army. And the Horde grew larger with each battle. 

 

I can understand not sending the full strength of the Circle, but only seven? That's merely a token amount compared to what the King of the country they served in was calling for. It's like sending the bare minimum just to say you did your part while keeping back as much as you can for prejudiced reasons.

 

That's the estimation I got from that whole thing. 

[raging_monkey]

*shrug* I can't really argue with your points as they are quite valid, but they don't really address mine.  Chanry prejudice, or even just templar prejudice is keeping so few mages away from the battlefield. Even though no one believed it was a blight, the King WAS calling for an army. And the Horde grew larger with each battle.  I can understand not sending the full strength of the Circle, but only seven? That's merely a token amount compared to what the King of the country they served in was calling for. It's like sending the bare minimum just to say you did your part while keeping back as much as you can for prejudiced reasons. That's the estimation I got from that whole thing.

funny we are weapons but why not use us for our power

[Lilaeth]

Sigh.  Looks like I'm going to have to roll a mage and see if I can lay waste to the Chantry! 

[raging_monkey]

Sigh.  Looks like I'm going to have to roll a mage and see if I can lay waste to the Chantry! 

chantry does good but laying waste to the religion makes us magi look bad