635 réponses à ce sujet

[Felene]

If the chantry goes, thedas will go down with it.

 

Rome was a centerpiece of its time as well, doing the same practices you proscribed the chantry did. When they fell, the people they once governed fell to ruination, ignorance, and anarchy. Marauding hordes became the dominant power, a cult of personality rose to take over the western world, the east grew powerful then highly isolationist, and the people fragmented into many little "kingdoms", waring amongst themselves and killing, raping, pillaging, and conquering for nearly a thousand years after. This period would come to be known as the dark ages, and it took rediscovering old knowledge in order for people to start pulling themselves out of the muck of what had been wrought before them to clammer back to a semblance of greatness again..sniped

 

Sorry, but that is not how Rome fall. Please watch this 12min video on the fall of Rome.

 

And Dark Ages isn't really that "dark."

 

As for the Chantry, if they stay out of my Inquisitor's way they will stay, but if they don't...

 

My Inquisitor's won't destroy it or anything, but given the option my Inquisitor's will probably significantly weakens it to the point that it can no longer interfere with his/her plans.

[Shadow Fox]

What if people make different decisions than you and get better conequences?

You're talking to the guy who's Wardens have:

 

Done the Dalish boon

 

Made an Elf banon

 

Done the Magi boon

 

put Harrowmont on the throne

 

Helped Burkel open a Chantry

 

Put Anora on the throne as a city elf

 

 

so I'm well versed in my pc's decisions biting them in the ass.

 

In fact I'll be disappointed if it doesn't happen in Inquisition at least once.

[AutumnWitch]

Sorry, but that is not how Rome fall. Please watch this 12min video on the fall of Rome.

 

As for the Chantry, if they stay out of my Inquisitor's way they will stay, but if they don't...

 

My Inquisitor's won't destroy it or anything, but given the option my Inquisitor's will probably significantly weakens it to the point that it can no longer interfere with his/her plans.

 

Thank you so much for posting that video...I wanted to say something but it was way too much to type.

[KaiserShep]

I'd let the Chantry fall. Churches go and come, but Thedas abides.

[Shadow Fox]

I think your misreading what he said. He wants the option to destroy the chantry and orlais but wants it to have some negative consequence which would be a logical outcome i think. It's not that he wants other peoples choices to have a negative effect or maybe I'm misreading it

Yup I want Bioware to make us think we can do something like destroy an entire nation and the backbone of civilization, give the mages their own country or give occupied territory to wandering elves without consequence...

 

Then violently crush that naïve idealism under the cold, uncaring hard boot of reality just as they've done in the previous games.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Sorry, but that is not how Rome fall. Please watch this 12min video on the fall of Rome.

 
And Dark Ages isn't really that "dark."

Thanks for posting the video, though I feel it doesn't dissuade my argument. I already covered the east/west split in my post, and in fact the video seems to back up my post.

"So while the western empire descended into chaos, the eastern half of the empire had its capital in Byzantium."

I already said that the east prospered while the west fell into chaos and ruination. And that's not really an exaggeration as knowledge and trained personal in important fields such as Medicine, Engineering, Governance, etc, either went to the east, or had their works written in a language very few in the west could understand, such as latin, or greek. So dark ages not dark unless you count the loss of building techniques, medical treatment, sanitation, and of course the even more constant civil waring then in the old flavian days.

EDIT: You know its not polite to edit/add onto your post, and not make a note of that editing. Just saying, its a real sure fire way to motherfuck someone and be a general douche.

ECIT II:But whatever, you probably didn't know, so I don't really blame ya or got hard feelings over that.

Next video, explaining europe got fucked up by romes collapse, and considering thedas is mostly based on rome + some byzantine with the tevinter imperium and some persia with the Qunari, whateves.

I'm not seeing the "oh no I was so wrong" thing here. I do like those videos though, even if they're saying what I already know. ((Poli-sci major fresh off of a medievial politics course last semester. So yeah, we covered most of what went on in europe and the medditerranian. Marsilius > Aquinas too pro.))

[Gtdef]

Chantry is pointless. They want to spread the chant in the four corners of the world, but the world is round. I'm not that good in geometry but I was thinking, if they put 4 chanters, one on top of the other, and all of them sing, will the maker come?

[Felene]

.snip

 

The reason for posting the first video is to break down the example of Rome in your post for "fall of religious institute = fall of governments said religious institute reside in."

 

And since fall of Rome isn't really cause by religion along in any cases(including before or after split into East and West. A simple wiki search for Roman Empire will state the cause for the fall of Roman Empire for you, as directly quoted from the wikipedia page-

 

"...Following the death of Theodosius I, the last Emperor to rule a united Empire, the dominion of the Empire was gradually eroded by abuses of power, civil wars, barbarian migrations and invasions, military reforms and economic depression. The Sack of Rome in 410 by the Visigoths and again in 455 by the Vandals accelerated the Western Empire's decay, while the deposition of the Emperor Romulus Augustus in 476 by Odoacer is generally accepted to mark the end of the Empire in the west. The Eastern Roman Empire endured for another thousand years, eventually falling to the Ottoman Turks under Mehmed II in 1453."

 

As you can see, the reason for the fall of Roman Empire is... wait for it... invasions of barbarians or Turks! There is no mention of Christianity falls apart and not to mention both the Catholic church and Eastern Orthodox Church still doing well onto this day.

 

So if we were to use our world history to predict what would happen to a government when the dominated religions(like the Chantry) falls apart?

 

Well for the religion part, the "old religion" will either fold into the "new religion" or be replace by it. And the government itself follows or not depends on the situation. But if we were to use the case of Roman Empire(again I know) history tells us nothing will happen to it. When the Paganism was replace by Christianity, the Roman Empire still maintain as a single unify country, it didn't fall apart!

 

And how does that factor into whether or not player should let Chantry falls apart or strengthen it in DA? Absolutely nothing! We are getting so off topic here that the Mods just might lock this down right now!

 

p.s. This will be my last reply since I am a douche(douchette?) either way.

 

p.p.s. In case Jensaarai Bronitarian  or anyone else needs a TL;DR:.

[TheKomandorShepard]

It depends all on what goals you have in my case yes they need to fall so i could replace them with religion that fits me and allow me control folks.Chantry was way too incompetent when it comes with dealing with mages for my taste.  

[Ieldra]

@The Topic:
As much as I dislike the Chantry, I do not think it would be wise to destroy it at this time, even assuming that we could. As someone else already pointed out, it is a functional supranational organisation whose fall would only invite even less pleasant factions to fill the power vacuum. The Inquisition will be influential, but not ubiquitous enough to fill it, and it will have a role too specialized to make a serious attempt in the first place.

There is, at the moment, an uneasy power balance between Tevinter, the nations united by Orlesian Andrasteanism and the qunari. Unless I can gauge with some confidence what will happen if we upset it, I would not make the attempt. The Elder One and the possible changes in the magical macrostructure of Thedas are unknown factors in this as well. And last but not least, the destruction of the Chantry would result in a big loss of goodwill among the populations of several nations, and I can't be interested in that.

So, while from an ideological viewpoint, I'd like to see the Chantry fall, I will most likely not work towards it myself. Weakening its influence and removing its monopoly over ruling the mageborn and the lyrium trade, that I will do, because I intend to take over these tasks myself. If the game lets me.

Edit:
It is a word I do not use lightly, but the idea that we could change the religion of various nations, just like that by virtue of our Inquisitorial badassery, that is hubris. Even acquiring the memetic power to force a re-interpretation of dogma is a non-trivial task. We might be able to do that, but definitely not more.

[Elfquisitor]

[dragonflight288]

You're talking to the guy who's Wardens have:

 

Done the Dalish boon

 

Made an Elf banon

 

Done the Magi boon

 

put Harrowmont on the throne

 

Helped Burkel open a Chantry

 

Put Anora on the throne as a city elf

 

 

so I'm well versed in my pc's decisions biting them in the ass.

 

In fact I'll be disappointed if it doesn't happen in Inquisition at least once.

 

Ah. Fair enough. 

[Milan92]

I don't think we'll be able to let the Chantry 'fall' per se. I can see the Inquisition spearheading a reformation movement a la Martin Luther though.

 

I feel I should name my Inquisitor, Thomas.

[Urazz]

Yeah, I don't think we'll be able to let the Chantry fall but we can probably weaken some more and cause it to splinter much like we saw the Catholic Church did in our own history.

[Jaison1986]

Not even I think we will be completely able to eradicate them. That being said I hope we have options to weak their influence, perhaps, have Inquisition take over roles originally held by the chantry. Forbid them to raise an military force in their name would be an step in the right direction. 

[Br3admax]

Not even I think we will be completely able to eradicate them. That being said I hope we have options to weak their influence, perhaps, have Inquisition take over roles originally held by the chantry. Forbid them to raise an military force in their name would be an step in the right direction. 

We'd never be able to do that either. Nor should we have the power to tell the backbone of Thedas that they can't fund their own enterprises. 

[Reaverwind]

I won't be hindering or helping the Chantry per se, but I do think it's high time for a Reformation / break-up.

[lordsaren101]

There has never been a greater time in the history of the series than now to tear down the lies and fabrication of the Chantry and it's false prophet Andraste. The maker is a fairy tale. Unfortunately this fairy tail has spawned a millenia of violence and oppression. The biggest difference between Ancient Tevinter and modern Thedas? Ancient Tevinter's made no excuses for their debauched behavior. The Chantry murders, brainwashes and subjugates the unwashed masses through their heretical and false god.

 

Thedas needs to make it's own way, and until the maker's false faith is cast down and the blasphemous Andraste relegated to a history book enlightenment will never occur. The Qun is just as bad, but that is a topic for a different thread. 

 

Let men worship what gods they will. The Chantry operates on fear and seeks to destroy any belief that isn't in line with their own fictional deity. The result they declared everything else to be false and persecute and murder anyone that doesn't comply. Hopefully Dumat will burn the chantry into oblivion and show just how disgusing, sycophantic and fictional Andrastrianism actually is.

[General TSAR]

Sure, and watch the Qunari steamroll over Thedas.

 

There has never been a greater time in the history of the series than now to tear down the lies and fabrication of the Chantry and it's false prophet Andraste. The maker is a fairy tale. Unfortunately this fairy tail has spawned a millenia of violence and oppression. The biggest difference between Ancient Tevinter and modern Thedas? Ancient Tevinter's made no excuses for their debauched behavior. The Chantry murders, brainwashes and subjugates the unwashed masses through their heretical and false god.

 

Thedas needs to make it's own way, and until the maker's false faith is cast down and the blasphemous Andraste relegated to a history book enlightenment will never occur. The Qun is just as bad, but that is a topic for a different thread. 

 

Let men worship what gods they will. The Chantry operates on fear and seeks to destroy any belief that isn't in line with their own fictional deity. The result they declared everything else to be false and persecute and murder anyone that doesn't comply. Hopefully Dumat will burn the chantry into oblivion and show just how disgusing, sycophantic and fictional Andrastrianism actually is.

So salty. 

[lordsaren101]

Much the way the Chantry steamrolled all of Thedas? I think not. Free of the Chantry and its corruption, people will taste freedom, and they will not bend knee to horned barbarians either. 

[General TSAR]

Much the way the Chantry steamrolled all of Thedas? I think not. Free of the Chantry and its corruption, people will taste freedom, and they will not bend knee to horned barbarians either. 

You're adorable.

 

Tell me, what organization will stop the future Qunari invasion? 

[raging_monkey]

Inquisition

[General TSAR]

Ahh so you already know the major points of DAI yes?

[lordsaren101]

You're adorable.

 

Tell me, what organization will stop the future Qunari invasion? 

 

I am quite adorable. We don't need a religious organization to stop them. We need a united Imperium. Not one dictated by false faiths.