234 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

Dark matter says Hi.

Exactly. We know enough about what gravity does in order to deduce the existence of matter we haven't directly observed, but the mechanism by which one mass exerts gravitational force on another mass eludes us.

[leaguer of one]

Exactly. We know enough about what gravity does in order to deduce the existence of matter we haven't directly observed, but the mechanism by which one mass exerts gravitational force on another mass eludes us.

Ok, I'll give you that. We do know about it because of stars moving at the same rate but that does not default the fact something as minor as turning invisible out of will alone is unexplained.

Even ME has explanations for invisibility.

[Vilegrim]

So, hypothetical question, if a take 50 pound steel two handed hammer, with an appropriate size, and hit the pavement with all my strength, you think the pavement will stay intact? The stone plate i hit, will become rubble. Well, add a bit of exagerration, and you have a split ground. Actually, it doesn't split open and swallow you. It just becomes rubble here and there, you saw the ability live.

 

So yeah, enough with the realism and lore crap.

 

It's a fantasy game. People are gonna be strong enough to break through walls eventually. Lore is created every time you need to see something new and not previously established in the game.

 

But yeah, warriors can be bound by realism, let's have everyone else break those boundaries however. Gonna have some fun gameplay i tell you.

 

 

Or to achieve a similar effect do a low sweep with the blade, even armoured people can be tripped that way, un-armoured people end up maimed (but hp so let that system lets that past) then have swords striking and recovering as fast as they actually do, and needing as little wind up, and getting close to a guy with a 2h sword becomes what it really was like: walking into a wood chipper. Not only is it more 'real' it looks vastly cooler. Just look up the 2h sword scene from Ironclad on youtube, or the Medieval Battle Arena 2h sword tourneys, those things are FAST, like kungfu staff fast.

[Lennard Testarossa]

Even a fantasy world has to be internally consistent. If it possible for a person to make the earth quake with their strength, this should be reflected in the lore. There's nothing that annoys me more than people deflecting any questions about internal consistency in a fantasy world by "Hurr durr, it has dragons and fireballs".

And it isn't actually necessary to include abilites like that. Other games don't do it and are doing fine. The necessity in DA only comes from that silly streamlining philosophy that seems to have taken over in the gaming industry according to which every class needs equally "flashy" abilities. Just keep the abilities of people who can't cast any magic down to earth. There's no reason why archers need to have the ability to fire a "rain of arrows" at their enemies.

 

 

Exactly. We know enough about what gravity does in order to deduce the existence of matter we haven't directly observed, but the mechanism by which one mass exerts gravitational force on another mass eludes us.

 

Well, I'm not sure we can consider the existence of dark matter to be entirely certain. It's still somewhat of an ass pull. And I am not quite sure what you mean by the second part of that sentence. I'd certainly consider curving space to be a mechanism and that specific mechanism is very well established and understood. Or are you talking about mechanism in the sense of the details of gravity in QFT?

[wcholcombe]

Seriously, did someone say it doesn't work because the lore doesn't support it???

 

Are we really getting back to the gameplay/lore segregation issue.

 

In DAO Allistar not taking regular doses of lyrium disagrees with the lore, the fact that half our party didn't contract blight sickness disagrees with the lore, the fact that we could heal the mubari that had blight sickness disagrees with the lore, the darkspawn necromancer bringing the ogre back to life disagrees with the lore, mages teleporting disagrees with the lore, being able to turn Wynne or Morrigan into bloodmages disagrees with the lore.

 

Dragon age is built on gameplay/lore segregation, they don't always agree with each other.

[Beerfish]

Even a fantasy world has to be internally consistent. If it possible for a person to make the earth quake with their strength, this should be reflected in the lore. There's nothing that annoys me more than people deflecting any questions about internal consistency in a fantasy world by "Hurr durr, it has dragons and fireballs".

And it isn't actually necessary to include abilites like that. Other games don't do it and are doing fine. The necessity in DA only comes from that silly streamlining philosophy that seems to have taken over in the gaming industry according to which every class needs equally "flashy" abilities. Just keep the abilities of people who can't cast any magic down to earth. There's no reason why archers need to have the ability to fire a "rain of arrows" at their enemies.

 

 

 

Well, I'm not sure we can consider the existence of dark matter to be entirely certain. It's still somewhat of an ass pull. And I am not quite sure what you mean by the second part of that sentence. I'd certainly consider curving space to be a mechanism and that specific mechanism is very well established and understood. Or are you talking about mechanism in the sense of the details of gravity in QFT?

I agree with this for the most part.  Keep and or create useful abilities that are not way over the top.  I referred to the archery or cross bow over the top abilities before. 

[FiveThreeTen]

I'm all for lore/gameplay segregation, but one must admit that most animations were ...sober in DA:O.

 

Finding an animation ridiculous ≠ wanting animations to look realistic

[Lennard Testarossa]

Are we really getting back to the gameplay/lore segregation issue.

 

Dragon age is built on gameplay/lore segregation, they don't always agree with each other.

 

It's impossible to make gameplay and lore always agree with each other. Sometimes it can be sensible to bend the lore somewhat to improve gameplay. That's all pretty much common sense.

 

That does not mean that one should simply ignore the lore and not at least try to keep gameplay and lore as close to each other as is reasonably possible. Making the party members not contract the blight is necessary. Making warriors able to make the earth tremble is silly and unnecessary. Making it possible to give your party members specializations that don't make any sense for them is unnecessary.

[wcholcombe]

That does not mean that one should simply ignore the lore and not at least try to keep gameplay and lore as close to each other as is reasonably possible. Making the party members not contract the blight is necessary. Making warriors able to make the earth tremble is silly and unnecessary. Making it possible to give your party members specializations that don't make any sense for them is unnecessary.

But that right there is my point. From the beginning DA has been built around the combat and class system not being limited by the lore. 

 

Allistaire not having to take lyrium cut out a big part of the templar lore.  Removing blight disease as a threat from DAO removed what is actually one of the principle threats and dangers of a blight.  Flat out ignoring the fact that there is no treatment for blight disease and allowing you to heal the Mabari was a huge departure from the lore-not that I minded getting to save the puppy dog.

[wcholcombe]

I'm all for lore/gameplay segregation, but one must admit that most animations where ...sober in DA:O.

 

Finding an animation ridiculous ≠ wanting animations to look realistic

Hey, a lot of people complained about the boringness of combat for non mages in DAO.  I wasn't one of them, but I remember the complaints on BSN regarding it. BW is listening.

 

In the end it is an animation in combat, which bothers me much less then actual departures from lore in the story-ie no threat of demon possession, no lyrium for templar powers, no blight sickness, non reaction to bloodmages, etc etc etc.

[Patriciachr34]

First of all, Alistair did not take lyrium because he had not t
aken his final vows. In this case DOA does not break lore. Second, splitting the ground with your sword is a tactic that is available to use or not. All of the NPC sub-bosses and bosses will have some extraordinary power that we as PCs need to address. So if splitting the ground with my sword allows me to interrupt a boss spell that's going to pull my beating heart from chest at 20 paces then, by the maker, I'm going to use it. Hope this context helps a bit.

[wcholcombe]

First of all, Alistair did not take lyrium because he had not t
aken his final vows.

David Gaider disagrees with you so I will take his word for it.

 

Also, in the comics Alistair himself says that he started taking lyrium again to have his templar powers.

[Wulfram]

Alistair not taking lyrium fit the lore in da:o, even if that lore has since been changed

[Eterna]

-People shoot lightning from their hands

-Shockwave from 2handed weapon is considered ridiculous

 

 

Do you think these people even recognize their hypocrisy? 

[Joe-Poe]

David Gaider disagrees with you so I will take his word for it.

 

Also, in the comics Alistair himself says that he started taking lyrium again to have his templar powers.

That and Alistair never said anything about not taking lyrium in DAO I just assumed he was piffering from the hundreds of unused lyrium potions i had lying around. Would have been to much micromanaging if he actually had to drink lyrium during game play.

[Lennard Testarossa]

-People shoot lightning from their hands

-Shockwave from 2handed weapon is considered ridiculous

 

 

Do you think these people even recognize their hypocrisy? 

 

God, this nonsensical point has been adressed countless times. "It has dragons" is not a justification for anything and certainly not one for abandoning internal consistency.

People can shoot lightning from their hands because they have magic. It is well established in the lore that there is such a thing as magic and that some people can use it.

Warriors do not possess any ability to cast any magic. So where do they get the ability to make the ground tremble?

[Lady Luminous]

But... whirlwind is my favourite ability and I'm a dual wielder! No fair.

[Lady Luminous]

God, this nonsensical point has been adressed countless times. "It has dragons" is not a justification for anything and certainly not one for abandoning internal consistency.

People can shoot lightning from their hands because they have magic. It is well established in the lore that there is such a thing as magic and that some people can use it.

Warriors do not possess any ability to cast any magic. So where do they get the ability to make the ground tremble?

 

Unless it's a force equation? If you create a fissure simply by having the right leverage and strength there will be outward ripples starting from the centre fracture? 

[Eterna]

God, this nonsensical point has been adressed countless times. "It has dragons" is not a justification for anything and certainly not one for abandoning internal consistency.

People can shoot lightning from their hands because they have magic. It is well established in the lore that there is such a thing as magic and that some people can use it.

Warriors do not possess any ability to cast any magic. So where do they get the ability to make the ground tremble?

 

Fade powers. 

[Rawgrim]

Does the Dragon Age lore explicitely say you can't do it, however? I haven't personally come across anything that says that fighting is exactly as grounded as real life lore-wise.

 

The lore doesn't explicitly say there arn't space ships in Nevarra either. The lore explains how Thedas works, and goes into depth about the differences in that world compared to our world. Setting the stage, if you will.

[Hrungr]

Dragon Age ‏@dragonage

Think fast! #DAI pic.twitter.com/e5jCarnRJB

 

[Rawgrim]

In the Baldurs Gate games warriors couldnt do anything but basic attacks until they got into their epic levels. It worked ok since it was simply a *dumed down* (in the loosest sense of the word) 2.0 DnD simulator but Dragon Age is a bit more complicated.

For those of you upset because of Lore reasons, dragons being able to fly and breath fire are pretty physics defiant?
If we are willing to fall back on, dragons can do it because of magic, then can we fall back on the Inquisitor Warrior being able to do magic super human/other blows because they have been touched by the fade? Little do you know that the green hand mark grants the ability to wield really big ass swords and have colorful smashing effects.

That, or perhaps the laws of physics are different in a world where souls have physical properties? F=MA + soul POWAH. Perhaps all the laws of physics and biology are different? WHERE DO DWARVES GET THEIR VITAMIN D FROM HUH? LETS ASK THE REAL QUESTIONS

 

BG is an old game, though. During that time games didn't tend to have many animations.

 

Warriors can't use magic, that is the deal. The lore states that only mages can use magic, and they get sent to a circle because of it. Iron Bull uses the same ability, so its not tied to the bit where the inquisitor has been touched by the fade.

 

If the laws of physics and biology is different in Thedas, they should\would have told the players that in the first game.

[Rawgrim]

Fade powers. 

 

Iron Bull doesn't have fade powers.

[Rawgrim]

-People shoot lightning from their hands

-Shockwave from 2handed weapon is considered ridiculous

 

 

Do you think these people even recognize their hypocrisy? 

 

- The world of Thedas has magic. How magic works is explained in the lore. So within those frames set by the writers, shooting lightning from your hands is perfectly possible in that world.

 

- Yes. Since the game tells us only mages can use magic, and the one creating the shockwave is not a mage.