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[Willowhugger]

MageWardenHawkeQuisitor was Ander's best friend and vice versa. Since escaping the Circle by becoming a GreyWarden and retiring in Kirkwall, he'd loathed the injustices of the Templars and wanted to do everything he could to help his people. He didn't believe in war, though, because he'd already survived one war. MageWardenQuisitorHawke was more or less content to just strike out at Templars every now and then. He wasn't a Snarky Hawke but a Diplomatic Hawke who had an almost saintly demeanor with rare exceptions. He spared even loathesome criminals if it meant giving people a chance at redemption.

 

However, he killed Anders.

 

MageWardenHawkeQuisitor understood why Anders did what he did. He understood that the Tranquil Solution was a serious danger, that the Chantry put band-aids over serious injustices, and that Elthina was the worst sort of appeaser who allowed Templars and fanatics like Petrice to run wild. However, he also knew where this would lead. Blood Magic, Murder, Terrorism, and the treatment of Mages as animals while Mages used desperate measures to retaliate. The Resolutionists under Leliana were why they'd broken up.

 

Anders: There is justice in the world.
Isabela: Is there? You want to free the mages. Let's say you do, but to get there, you kill a bunch of innocent people.
Isabela: What about them? Don't they then deserve justice?
Anders: Yes.
Isabela: And then what? Where does it end?
Isabela: It's like a bar brawl. People are continuously pulled into the fray, and nobody remembers why it started.
Isabela: Justice is an idea. It makes sense in a world of ideas, but not in our world.

 

Hawke disagreed.

 

He would show the world that mages could police their own. He would lead the revolt against the Templars tyranny and whenever they mentioned Kirkwall, he'd say a mage was the one who avenged Elthina. He would police their own and show mages DESERVED their freedom.

Just as Anders intended.

 

He killed his friend and whispered in his ear as he died. "I will see our people free."

Sebastian, Hawke's surrogate kid brother and representative of the people of the world in his mind, nodded and said, "We will free the mages from the Templar's tyranny."

Hawke hoped Anders found peace in death.

[HTTP 404]

There is something creepy about your Hawke Willowhugger.  I strangely like that.

[Willowhugger]

I admit I'm a sucker for dramatic tragedy.

[Hibernating]

I didn't kill him on any of my playthroughs, regardless of if I sided with the mages or templars.
If I sided with the mages, its only because I was a fanatical (to the point of thinking Tevinter has the right ideas) supporter of the mages and agreed with what he did. I felt dirty after that playthrough.

If I sided with the Templars, its because during the Rivalry storyline he reveals that its all justice and that justice is slowly destroying him. So I let him redeem himself somewhat by wiping out the Mages after which he suggests he will go commit suicide, which is a more peaceful way to die.
Getting him to side with you against the mages during a rivalry arc is also the biggest f@$k you to justice you can do in the game, which for me is an added bonus.

 

*edit, Thats an amazing picture OP. Thanks for sharing.

[ICevoL]

On the majority of my play-throughs of DA2, I let Anders live. Since listing all the various Hawkes and their reasons for the decision they made would take WAY too long, I'll just discuss my (mostly unspoiled) first Hawke.

 

Jacyn Hawke had already lost one companion to a combination of his temper and being a "for the greater good" type of person.  He couldn't forgive Isabella when she returned with the Tome (after lying to his face about giving it up), and he also considered Kirkwall's innocents to be more important than one so-called friend who'd repeatedly lied to him, so he gave her to the Arishok when pushed to do so.  He instantly regretted it when the Arishok said the Qunari would be back eventually.

 

When it came to Anders in a similar situation (lying regarding his personal quest in Act 3), Jacyn stayed his hand and asked the other companions for their opinions.  He was the most swayed by Merrill saying, "He should come with us.  Do what he can to put things right." So... Anders lived in that game 

[Dova]

I always let Anders live.

To shorten up a lot of paragraphs: It was necessary. The war was always there and determined to happen, but Elthina kept putting it on pause. You can't put a war on pause like she was trying to do. It makes things more agitated when more people are caught in the fray on picking sides, which the Chantry would of had to side with Templars which would of made destroying and/or locking up mages much more easier.

And the good side of me feels bad for Anders, if rival path is taken. He's loosing himself to Justice and he can't stop it. Same with Friendship but he wants to believe it's him with these ideas, not Justice. 

I did a PT with Anders, I rivaled him and sided with Templars up until the end and sided with Mages and let him live, and I think it was a truly great scene, which has sense then always let him live. 

 

Sometimes it helps looking at another view point. But I do agree with those who want to kill him because he killed innocents. I just wish Sebastian would of been in the Chantry at the explosion... 

[thats1evildude]

I killed Anders because he doesn't get to condemn a bunch of innocent people to death and then walk away to be the Pancho Villa of Mage Independence. The cause doesn't need him; in fact, he's a liability.

[Lhawke]

Only the once in my horrible hawke pro templar friends with Petrice playthrough.

 

Otherwise no, my Hawke does not regard herself as being entitled to judge and execute people. If Kirkwall wants Anders executed they'll have to arrest him and do it themselves. Until order is restored to Kirkwall Anders is with Hawke.

 

There might have to be one other time though. My what would Wynne do and a romanced Sebastian playthrough.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Killing Anders was long overdue. I would have done it in the Chantry before killing any of those Templars. Only one thing to do to a mad dog.

 

I also didn't like him and thought his views were crazy.

 

Even if I supported his mad ideas I would not have liked the way he went about with it. I agree that sometimes extreme actions are necessary, so it's not even the bombing thing that bothers me, but Anders' plan just plain sucked. He had no escape route, forced a fight that he had no real chance to win, and couldn't have even logically ensured that this act would have the effect he intended or if it would have been just another Circle annulment that the rest of Thedas either wouldn't have any knowledge of or wouldn't really care about (by all accounts it sounds like Fiona is the one who really starts the upcoming mage-Templar war, not Anders and the Kirkwall Incident). It was total defeatism and some misplaced idea of "justice." Stupid idiot. Basically the mages' Meredith.

[Joe-Poe]

Because Anders was a fool and I don't suffer fools to live

[GodBrandon]

I always kill Anders. Carver's banter with Anders is essentially how I feel about him. He just complains about being a mage too much and I disagree with just about everything he says. Carver said it best: "I don't hate you because you're a mage, I hate you because you won't shut up about it"

 

Even if I did like him, you can't just blow up a chantry and get away with it.

[AutumnWitch]

My Mage Hawke killed Anders to protect him from being tortured or worse at Meredith's hand not because of what he did.

 

*proceed with name calling*  sigh....

[congokong]

The OP is rather presumptuous, yes? It is a nice image though. I believe there is a recent thread on this subject.

[congokong]

On the majority of my play-throughs of DA2, I let Anders live. Since listing all the various Hawkes and their reasons for the decision they made would take WAY too long, I'll just discuss my (mostly unspoiled) first Hawke.

 

Jacyn Hawke had already lost one companion to a combination of his temper and being a "for the greater good" type of person.  He couldn't forgive Isabella when she returned with the Tome (after lying to his face about giving it up), and he also considered Kirkwall's innocents to be more important than one so-called friend who'd repeatedly lied to him, so he gave her to the Arishok when pushed to do so.  He instantly regretted it when the Arishok said the Qunari would be back eventually.

Wow. On my first playthrough Isabela abandoned me because it wasn't until I looked up online how to recruit her that she joined the party. By then Act 1 was almost over so I never got her to high enough friendship.

 

Anyway, were you role-playing when you betrayed her or did you really just hate the character at that point? I've never given her to the Arishok. My Hawkes almost always being mages made hating the qunari easy. Even though Isabela's actions caused everything, it was just a book. The qunari with their "follow the qun" insanity caused them to sit idle for all those years and their conversion fanaticism caused them to attack the city. Isabela's actions caused it but the qunari are responsible. Hell, I'd put a lot of blame on the Viscount for placating the qunari so extensively to the point of giving lands, assisting them with their endeavors, and never forcing them to leave. Imagine if the roles were reversed. Do you think the qunari would tolerate some shipwrecked Maker worshippers on Pal-Valen to the point the Viscount did; even letting them take qunari fugitives as Chantry converts?

 

It doesn't bode well for Kirkwall's defenses that one ship-wrecked Dreadnought filled with qunari are enough to leave Kirkwall's hands tied for 4 years.

[Willowhugger]

 

Do you think the qunari would tolerate some shipwrecked Maker worshippers on Pal-Valen to the point the Viscount did; even letting them take qunari fugitives as Chantry converts?

 

Odd fact: Qunari don't force you to give up your belief in the Maker, just live by the Qun.

Which is a fact probably lost on Chantry followers.

[Shadowrun1177]

I rarely let Anders live on any of my play throughs. I played a mage Hawke on my first play through and used Anders as my healer cause I spec'd myself for damage which left me with no healer for the final fights. That was one my biggest issues with DA2 if you killed Anders and Bethany was dead either from the fact of you being a mage or dying in the deep roads you were screwed and had to try on relying on potions if mage Hawke wasn't able to heal. They kind of forced you to have mage Hawke have healing abilities or let Anders live if you so you could have someone who could heal.

[ICevoL]

<snip>

 

were you role-playing when you betrayed her or did you really just hate the character at that point? I've never given her to the Arishok.

 

<snip>

 

Since this isn't an Isabella thread, I'll keep my response brief.

 

Was I role playing? Yes.

 

Did I (or more accurately, the Hawke I was playing) hate Isabella? No.  Being angry with someone for lying to you =/= hatred. I also said that Hawke was considering the ramifications to the rest of the city that would come from not giving her to the Arishok.  Since one of his RP characteristics from the start was "the needs of the many over the needs of the few", he gave her up mostly in the hope that the Qunari would leave Kirkwall alone.  The anger bit (Jacyn Hawke had a nasty temper) was the lesser part of his decision.

 

 

To keep this post on-topic, one of the few Hawkes I had that killed Anders did so because he was Rivaled and Hawke was siding with the Templars.  He asked Anders to join him in the fight.  Anders responding "I rather die" made Hawke go, "OK" and grab the murder knife.  I like to RP a bunch of different characters, and that particular Hawke was a Templar supporter all the way.

[themikefest]

I kill him every time, all the time.

 

He killed a lot of folks that had nothing to do with his crap.

[congokong]

Odd fact: Qunari don't force you to give up your belief in the Maker, just live by the Qun.

Which is a fact probably lost on Chantry followers.

That is interesting, but I'm sure Chantry teaching come into conflict with the Qun somewhere down the road. Most people treat the qun as a religion when it's more a philosophy. It does share that "certainty" religious people have though.

[ObserverStatus]

I killed Anders because he was a bunghole.

[CrazyGobstopper]

The recent thread that congoking mentioned is here, and was last posted in only a week ago.

 

I'll quote my post from that thread, in answer to this one:

 

Two of my three Hawkes killed Anders.

 

Alec did it reluctantly, feeling that Anders had left him with no other choice. He had liked and respected Anders and considered him a friend. He sympathized with the plight of mages that were targeted for the misdeeds of others. He sided with the Kirkwall Circle against Meredith's paranoia, but recognized that Anders had to face justice for his murders in blowing up the Chantry.

 

Marian had few qualms about killing Anders, as she had been only pro-Templar throughout most of her time in Kirkwall. She understood that not all mages would resort to blood magic or were otherwise bad people, but had encountered so many bad mages that she strongly believed a Templar-policed Circle was the only option. She would've been willing to support reforms in the way that some Templars would abuse their authority over mages, and so she sided with the Templars against the mages and accepted the position of Viscount - first and foremost for her own ambition, but also because she knew she could be a force for change in Kirkwall.

 

Valerie was the only one of my Hawkes that did not kill Anders. She was a mage and ardently in favor of mage freedom. She believed that a mage rebellion was inevitable, but was conflicted because she knew countless innocents would die in any war between mages and the Chantry. She would never have intentionally aided or condoned Anders' decision to destroy the Chantry and kill anyone within at the time of the explosion, but was practical enough to know that it didn't matter once the action was already finished. She didn't believe that Anders was entirely culpable for his actions, due to the spirit with which he shared his body. She stood defiantly with the Kirkwall mages against the Templars, resigning herself to the expectation that she, her lover Anders, and her other companions were likely fighting the first battle in that inevitable rebellion.

Modifié par CrazyGobstopper, 14 septembre 2014 - 12:18 .

[Willowhugger]

I just posted this over in a Sebastian thread.

 

It helps to know that my MageWardenHawkeQuisitor playthrough was always going to be the Goody-Two-Shoes one. I played a Diplomatic Hawke for my "canonical" Hawke going into Inquisition even if I think everyone agrees that Snarky Hawke should be the canonical one. He was, after all, meant to be my Paragon Warden after some Eluvian shenanigans.

 

Anyway, my Apostate Mage was a firm believer in Mage Liberation. He rivaled Fenris, Rivaled Aveline, Friendshiped Anders, Rivaled Carver (The Grey Warden), and Friendshiped Merrill. One quality that my Goody-Two-Shoes Fellow had about Mage politics was simple, though, that "If you are evil, you die."

 

And it became very-very problematic to watch mage-after-mage live up to the absolute WORST stereotypes the Templars used to justify their imprisonment. Murder of the innocent, selling your soul to demons, selling the souls of Templars, and performing unspeakable experiments on MY MOTHER.

 

Very-very reluctantly, my Hawke came to a simple conclusion.

Some mages are scum, just like some regular people are scum.

 

And Scum gotta be cleaned.

 

But in the Hawke's head there was always the little niggling detail that virtually every one of the scumbags he dispatched tended to claim that they were only doing all this evil because they were oppressed by the Templars. It all came to a head in Hawke's mind when he confronted Ser Thrask's group, one of the few Templar-Mage alliances ever, and the mages resorted to Blood Magic and demon worshiping.

 

Getting the Good Templars killed.

 

Clearly, Hawke realized, someone needed to lead by example. To show mages that you don't HAVE to be a monster because someone is a monster to you.

And, unfortunately, the first time Hawke had to test that philosophy was his best friend.

Tragic.

[X Equestris]

Odd fact: Qunari don't force you to give up your belief in the Maker, just live by the Qun.
Which is a fact probably lost on Chantry followers.

The Qunari probably tolerate lingering beliefs in gods in recently converted places, but I imagine there are certain places where various beliefs conflict.

[Beerfish]

Fenris said it best,,,,

 

Anders "You hate me because I'm a mage!"

Fenris "No, I hate you because you won't shut up about it."

 

A dagger in the back was too good for him.