92 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

I find it funny that this is the only thing you can you can pick apart from that list of dysfunction. It doesn't make the disorder false btw.

I disagree with virtually everything on the list, but that was the one that I could immediately say was objectively wrong.

 

 

Yeah cause trying to actually save a city instead of pretending to save it by saving your nut job buddy makes you so much better.   How about actually come up with a real reason why your choice is better instead of reducing your argument to fallacies.

You're murdering civilians, I'm trying to protect them (a choice not related to saving Anders, incidentally).

 

 

As a nut job.

Your dream still failed.

[General TSAR]

Initially because the rat deserved it.

 

But come to think of it, Anders was becoming more and more frightened by Justice and wanted it gone. Hell, he might have been fearful that he was becoming more indoctrinated. After he bombed the Chantry, he begged me to kill him. I didn't do that because he might become a Martyr, so I had him fight with the Templars to kill all the Mages (including Merill) as a way to repent and to ruin his image as a revolutionary. He'll commit suicide after the battle but at least he repented for some of his sin.

[Hazegurl]

I disagree with virtually everything on the list, but that was the one that I could immediately say was objectively wrong.

 

 

 

Seems like that was all you could pick a part from that list of crazy.

 

You're murdering civilians, I'm trying to protect them (a choice not related to saving Anders, incidentally).

 

Yet you murder mages in the street anyway. Then you abandon the city and go off on the run with your basket case buddy who can't tell friend from foe and has proven to murder countless innocent mages and citizens whenever the whim strikes him to do so. Siding with the mages imo is more of a F U to Kirkwall than protecting the city. You leave it behind not help it in anyway.

 

Your dream still failed.

Anyone who looks up the info on Kirkwall will see his name on a report. But according to the above post not every mage know him or what he did. Even in Asunder, he's not considered much of a rally cry for freedom like he wanted. Just a nut job who went too far. I would say that is a much better compromise.

[Xilizhra]

Seems like that was all you could pick a part from that list of crazy.

Very well.

 

He's not paranoid; virtually all of his suspicions are accurate except that the Tranquil Solution had been approved (and considering that the Tranquil in the Gallows weren't exactly hidden, or being subtle about their undying, frequently sexual allegiance to Ser Alrik, I can hardly blame him for thinking so; it instead seems that Cullen, Meredith and the others are oblivious morons).

He isn't fighting delusions of insignificance or lost value per se; he was perfectly content to continue running away from things before joining with Justice, and doesn't seem overly guilty about his past, just determined to do more now.

You could call the revolution "grandiose," but I wouldn't; it'd seem to be much too easy a mental disorder to slap onto anyone who would try such a thing.

 

 

Yet you murder mages in the street anyway. Then you abandon the city and go off on the run with your basket case buddy who can't tell friend from foe and has proven to murder countless innocent mages and citizens whenever the whim strikes him to do so. Siding with the mages imo is more of a F U to Kirkwall than protecting the city. You leave it behind not help it in anyway.

Bullshit. I fight one mage who had herself murdered other mages and who attacked me. Every other enemy is a demon or a templar. I help the city significantly by both killing all the demons (that the templars are ignoring) and killing the leader of the military-religious junta currently occupying the city. But more importantly, I'm trying to stop the slaughter of hundreds, at least, of innocents at the hands of said junta.

 

 

Anyone who looks up the info on Kirkwall will see his name on a report. But according to the above post not every mage know him or what he did. Even in Asunder, he's not considered much of a rally cry for freedom like he wanted. Just a nut job who went too far. I would say that is a much better compromise.

We shall see in Inquisition.

[Hazegurl]

Very well.

 

He's not paranoid; virtually all of his suspicions are accurate except that the Tranquil Solution had been approved (and considering that the Tranquil in the Gallows weren't exactly hidden, or being subtle about their undying, frequently sexual allegiance to Ser Alrik, I can hardly blame him for thinking so; it instead seems that Cullen, Meredith and the others are oblivious morons).

He isn't fighting delusions of insignificance or lost value per se; he was perfectly content to continue running away from things before joining with Justice, and doesn't seem overly guilty about his past, just determined to do more now.

You could call the revolution "grandiose," but I wouldn't; it'd seem to be much too easy a mental disorder to slap onto anyone who would try such a thing.

 

 

Did you miss when he tells you that Templars were searching for him and it turns out they were looking for refugees and not bothering him at all? Did you miss his constant complaining about the Grey Wardens being after him yet not a single Grey Warden gave a damn about him? Even Meredith knew about him and did nothing cause he was Hawke's friend. He was hardly in Fenris's position. See Fenris had people actively searching for him. Enemies we actually came across who wanted to recapture him.  Anders was just itching like a paranoid crack head in Darktown. I would say that the Tranquil Solution quest was the only time he had a legit worry that turned out half true. This was a time when I understand Anders's worry for the mages. Of course he had to ruin it by then allowing his demon to run amuck and near causing the life of a innocent mage. The fact that he had "Justice" inside of him to further fuel his delusions made it worse. And yeah claiming that you would be some sort of spark of revolution by murdering your own is grandiose. He was a fanatic who couldn't see past himself and int he end didn't really care for mages. I would even say that his attitude was very similar to Morrigan's in DAO in the end. The mages deserved death because they allowed themselves to be imprisoned. The difference is that at least Morrigan was straight forward and honest about it.

 

Bullshit. I fight one mage who had herself murdered other mages and who attacked me. Every other enemy is a demon or a templar. I help the city significantly by both killing all the demons (that the templars are ignoring) and killing the leader of the military-religious junta currently occupying the city. But more importantly, I'm trying to stop the slaughter of hundreds, at least, of innocents at the hands of said junta.

 

The mages were defending themselves and naturally went out of control proving why it's okay for Hawke, especially a Mage Hawke to see this outcome  coming a mile away and side with the Templars instead. You got attacked by their summoned demons anyway and who knows how many citizens were attacked and killed by them. Meanwhile a Templar sided Hawke also kills the demons, makes sure Aveline's city guards are rescuing the people, and leave Templars alive who can aid the civilians further. Not seeing how that is a choice that places one on par with Quentin or whatever your so called argument was.  In the end both options are correct, siding with Templars doesn't make anyone evil anymore than siding with mages makes you automatically good.

 

We shall see in Inquisition.

 

I guess we will. But I kill him off anyway so I don't care. That was Hawke's story. My inquisitor will other things to worry about than some long dead basketcase of a mage.

[Xilizhra]

 

 

Did you miss when he tells you that Templars were searching for him and it turns out they were looking for refugees and not bothering him at all? Did you miss his constant complaining about the Grey Wardens being after him yet not a single Grey Warden gave a damn about him? Even Meredith knew about him and did nothing cause he was Hawke's friend. He was hardly in Fenris's position. See Fenris had people actively searching for him. Enemies we actually came across who wanted to recapture him.  Anders was just itching like a paranoid crack head in Darktown. I would say that the Tranquil Solution quest was the only time he had a legit worry that turned out half true. This was a time when I understand Anders's worry for the mages. Of course he had to ruin it by then allowing his demon to run amuck and near causing the life of a innocent mage. The fact that he had "Justice" inside of him to further fuel his delusions made it worse. And yeah claiming that you would be some sort of spark of revolution by murdering your own is grandiose. He was a fanatic who couldn't see past himself and int he end didn't really care for mages. I would even say that his attitude was very similar to Morrigan's in DAO in the end. The mages deserved death because they allowed themselves to be imprisoned. The difference is that at least Morrigan was straight forward and honest about it.

If you want. From my perspective, he was utterly selfless and only too driven in certain areas.

 

 

The mages were defending themselves and naturally went out of control proving why it's okay for Hawke, especially a Mage Hawke to see this outcome  coming a mile away and side with the Templars instead. You got attacked by their summoned demons anyway and who knows how many citizens were attacked and killed by them. Meanwhile a Templar sided Hawke also kills the demons, makes sure Aveline's city guards are rescuing the people, and leave Templars alive who can aid the civilians further. Not seeing how that is a choice that places one on par with Quentin or whatever your so called argument was.  In the end both options are correct, siding with Templars doesn't make anyone evil anymore than siding with mages makes you automatically good.

No, it isn't okay. It never was and never will be.

Also, the demons appear spontaneously; the only mage who might have actually summoned demons was the same one I mentioned who attacked me (and killed other mages). And Aveline's guards will protect the civilian populace in the mage ending too, so that leaves no excuse either.

Your Hawke is worse than Quentin for having a much higher body count of innocents, for reasons that are no better.

[HiroVoid]

Because it was the right thing to do.

[Hazegurl]

If you want. From my perspective, he was utterly selfless and only too driven in certain areas.

 

 

Then we agree to disagree

 

No, it isn't okay. It never was and never will be.

 

Oh well, too bad for you that you can't accept a different choice in a game that gives us superficial choices.

[Kamon89]

My Hawke was always in favour of independence for Mages, probably because of his father. 

 

As such he was attracted to Anders immediately, though wary of the 'spirit' in him and how far was too far to go in aid of the cause.

 

When he wrangled out of Anders that he had no intention of ridding himself of Justice and he was blackmailing Hawke he was suspicious, even worried.

 

When Anders revealed his act of terrorism, Hawke was heartbroken, the man he loved, with whom he shared a position on how they, as Mages should be allowed to live, had slaughtered innocent people.

 

Hawke, who had always questioned established authority and had preferred to act as judge rather than let the law deal with any transgressions against him, felt that Anders must pay for the innocent blood he spilled. He would never change, Justice or Vengeance or whoever Anders had become, had betrayed Hawke's most intrinsic belief, that people should live free from the tyranny of others. Holding back tears, he ended Anders' life, and was determined to never love again.

[-TC1989-]

I try to see both templars, and mages as equals. But the deeper I get into Dragon Age.... the more I tend to side with the templars. A big reason for this is because of the unpredictability of mages, and the chaos they can bring. It's hard to trust a group of people, that usually can't be responsible with their power, or their "gift".

 

Now I don't mind having to kill templars if I have to, but I just don't view them nearly as dangerous as mages. Now in the case of Anders, killing him had nothing to do with a "Death to mages!" type of viewpoint, it was the fact he had gone insane. I couldn't sit by and let him continue down his path, and risk having him kill more people out of a sense of "justice".

[Maverick_One]

I killed Anders. I was friends with Anders. Didn't agree with him, but friends don't always see eye to eye. They do help you when you need it though. Remember the Deep Roads expedition and what would of happened to Carver or Bethany if he had not of been there? They do things that inevitably disappoint you. I killed Anders because I saw no other way to separate him and Justice. In doing so I sent him to The Maker and he will judge him. As for the spirit I do not know what has happened to him but perhaps he was destroyed with no body to inhabit thus the corruption of Justice is undone. That is why I kill Anders in every playthrough.

[Elite Midget]

I killed Anders on my canon FemHawke, who romanced Anders, for these reasons.

 

1) Anders guilt tripped and used her so that he could set the bomb up.

2) Anders was clearly losing control to the Spirit and my FemHawke refused to see it until after the bombing. At that point she knew that the man that she loved was truly lost.

3) Anders wanted to die, my FemHawke wanted to finally give him some peace and to be freed from the spirit so she gave Anders a quick death.

4) To prevent a Holy War/March upon Kirkwall as Hawke is their Champion thus has certain responsibilities to the people.

5) To prevent Sebastion from bringing his armies to Kirkwall.

6) To show that Mages, even those that are close to Hawke, weren't above the law when they commit such heinous actions.

[AzukiJin]

 

He would show the world that mages could police their own. He would lead the revolt against the Templars tyranny and whenever they mentioned Kirkwall, he'd say a mage was the one who avenged Elthina. He would police their own and show mages DESERVED their freedom.

 

This about "police" their own is what the "New" Tevinter imperium is all about, man. 

[Elite Midget]

This about "police" their own is what the "New" Tevinter imperium is all about, man. 

I dunno, nothing seems to give off the impression that they would better police themselves in the long term. 

[Lulupab]

oh well, too bad for you that you can't accept a different choice in a game that gives us superficial choices.

Then blame the bad writing. There is no moral reason to side with Templars. When you side with mages you fight and kill those who are a danger to the city and help innocent mages who had absolutely nothing to do with this escape, Oh and Aveline and his guards protect the civilians too. In Templar side you also do all this but perform ethnic cleansing on mages who didn't do anything wrong.

[KaiserShep]

Siding with the mages imo is more of a F U to Kirkwall than protecting the city. You leave it behind not help it in anyway.

 

I gotta say, I don't really mind the idea of saying F U to Kirkwall. If I lived in a city where a crazy necromancer killed my mother and a religious military order overreached its authority and took control, I'd flip that city the bird and leave it to rot too. That said, I don't believe that the Templars should have the authority to assume control over the entire city and its guard, and I would have opposed them for that alone.

 

I guess it doesn't matter though. I'd go so far as to raze all of Kirkwall to the ground just to save Bethany.

[Lulupab]

I guess it doesn't matter though. I'd go so far as to raze all of Kirkwall to the ground just to save Bethany.

This is also important in my perspective. When siding with mages you are killing Templars and when Carver says he is on your side just like Bethany the option to kill him is not even given because there is simply no reason to. He doesn't have to die just becaise he is a Templar and he is joining you to fight.

But when Bethany does the same the option to kill her is there because according to right of annulment she has to die and sparing her kinda makes Hawke a hypocrite but its the right choice morally. However you just killed many more sisters, mothers sons etc... for something they didn't do.

As I said above, I saw no moral reason to side with Templars.

[Bardox9]

If the choice was available I would have just made Anders tranquil. It the only punishment that hits his crime, IMO. A quick death is too good for him. Just letting him go doesn't work either. He is, whether he will admit it or not, an abomination. But since tranquility is not an option, I usually kill him... then I side with the mages even though I blame the entire mess in Act 3 on Orsino. What can I say, I am a man of contradictions.

[Lulupab]

If the choice was available I would have just made Anders tranquil. It the only punishment that hits his crime, IMO. A quick death is too good for him. Just letting him go doesn't work either. He is, whether he will admit it or not, an abomination. But since tranquility is not an option, I usually kill him... then I side with the mages even though I blame the entire mess in Act 3 on Orsino. What can I say, I am a man of contradictions.

 

Actually tranquility was never an option on Anders. If you read asunder about tranquility cure and paid attention to what he did with Karl (temporay curing him bu just using magic nearby him) Anders like all the possessed mages is completely immune to tranquility. His connection to the fade can never be severed when a piece of fade itself lives inside him, shining like a beacon, literally.

[Ranadiel Marius]

Then blame the bad writing. There is no moral reason to side with Templars. When you side with mages you fight and kill those who are a danger to the city and help innocent mages who had absolutely nothing to do with this escape, Oh and Aveline and his guards protect the civilians too. In Templar side you also do all this but perform ethnic cleansing on mages who didn't do anything wrong.

Um, you can save innocent mages on the Templar path. You are explicitly given a choice of sparing mages who refuse to fight, twice if you count Bethany. The only mages killed by my Hawke were the ones trying to kill him.

[Lulupab]

Um, you can save innocent mages on the Templar path. You are explicitly given a choice of sparing mages who refuse to fight, twice if you count Bethany. The only mages killed by my Hawke were the ones trying to kill him.

 

Well YOU can, doesn't mean other templars spared them. Majority of mages will die in annulment and only handful survive by escaping on time if you side with Templars. 

[Ranadiel Marius]

Well YOU can, doesn't mean other templars spared them. Majority of mages will die in annulment and only handful survive by escaping on time if you side with Templars.

Cullen expressly gives orders to spare those mages if you decide to spare them. If someone ignores his orders, that really isn't Hawke's fault. And the majority of the mages die in the annulmeny with only a handful escaping regardless of who you side with.

[Lulupab]

Cullen expressly gives orders to spare those mages if you decide to spare them. If someone ignores his orders, that really isn't Hawke's fault. And the majority of the mages die in the annulmeny with only a handful escaping regardless of who you side with.

 

Its confirmed many more escape if you side with mages. 

[herkles]

My hawke had several reasons why she decided to knife Anders.

 

Anders and Ella: In my play-through Bethany joined the circle. At the start of Act 2 she writes a letter to her sister in which she is saying things are alright in the circle, but she also says this. 

 

"I've started mentoring apprentices. I enjoy time with the children, teaching them basic spells. One of them, Ella, has taken a shine to me. Adorable!"

 

Then later when Hawke meets Ella during Ander's quest. She wanted to kill Ser alrik, she hated that man. After that fight though, Anders nearly killed Ella, he did not but he was so close, just because he was called a demon. This pissed my hawke off. Why? because from the family letter hawke got, she thought that anders was going to take away one of the few good things about being in the circle for her sister. Anders lost it. She gave Anders one last chance to sort of never let this happen. 

 

the chantry bombing

The bombing of the chantry was the last straw to my hawke. She saw this as a sign that Anders can't be controled that he will lash out and go insane and kill anyone to get his way, as seen with ella even if they are innocent. Not to mention throughout all of the game, my snarky hawke was doing all she could to keep the peace. She didn't side with anyone till the end and was hoping for some sort of compromise. Anders removed that and that also pissed her off. 

 

Sebastian's words

Not the whole I promise vengence on Kirkwall if you let him leave speach. No, not those words. the words "if I was in the chantry, would you be questioning this" Which was true. My Hawke loves Sebastian, so this was a minor but important thing. If He was in the chantry, she would have killed anders a lot quicker and much more brutal. 

 

So for those three main reasons, my hawke decided to knife Anders.  All that said, she chose to side with the mages when Meredith said that all mages in the circle would be killed. Bethany was a circle mage in this playthrough. So Hawke just straight-up refused. She wouldn't go through with something that could kill her little sister.