321 réponses à ce sujet

[Puppy Love]

That's pretty extreme.

The extremists that are never going to back down, and keep a cycle of terrorism and terrorism going being taken down is extreme?  Why?  It's their fault all those reasonable people on both sides are in danger.  I'm saying target the actual criminals and problem people.  Is better than the kill them all, or kill one side group think.  Is also better than trying to make peace with people who will sabotage it the second you turn your back.  There is no peace as long as the extremists on either side hold power.

[raging_monkey]

Equally extreme.

true but ive argued for comprise doesnt work. Best case isolation for mages

[HiroVoid]

true but ive argued for comprise doesnt work. Best case isolation for mages

If we're talking about the 'send all mages to an island' route, I doubt most would be okay with that due to people still wanting magic and the fact that the mages could start up a kingdom that would later invade them if isolated to one place like that.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The extremists that are never going to back down, and keep a cycle of terrorism and terrorism going being taken down is extreme?  Why?  It's their fault all those reasonable people on both sides are in danger.  I'm saying target the actual criminals and problem people.  Is better than the kill them all, or kill one side group think.  Is also better than trying to make peace with people who will sabotage it the second you turn your back.  There is no peace as long as the extremists on either side hold power.

The Geth-Quarian conflict in ME3 disproves that assertion. Han'Gerrel is still alive after negotiating peace and yet he never betrays you or the Geth, and he is as Anti-Geth as you will ever find. 

[Puppy Love]

The Geth-Quarian conflict in ME3 disproves that assertion. Han'Gerrel is still alive after negotiating peace and yet he never betrays you or the Geth, and he is as Anti-Geth as you will ever find. 

The Geth-Quarian conflict is fantasy.  Find a real world example.  We can make up any story we want, only reality demonstrates real outcomes.

[HiroVoid]

The Geth-Quarian conflict is fantasy.  Find a real world example.  We can make up any story we want, only reality demonstrates real outcomes.

As much as I don't really care for how the Geth-Quarian war is handled, its as much fantasy as Dragon Age is, along with being another game made by Bioware, so its as good an example as any.

[The Baconer]

The Geth-Quarian conflict in ME3 disproves that assertion. Han'Gerrel is still alive after negotiating peace and yet he never betrays you or the Geth, and he is as Anti-Geth as you will ever find. 

 

For the brief period of the conflict's end, to the Space Magick, sure.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The Geth-Quarian conflict is fantasy.  Find a real world example.  We can make up any story we want, only reality demonstrates real outcomes.

So a fantasy example won't work as a valid comparison to an argument about fantasy factions? lol okay. 

[Puppy Love]

Not to mention immediately after the conflict it's war with the reapers.  After which the universe is basically reset.  So no time has passed for anything from either side to really have happened to ruin the peace anyway.

[raging_monkey]

If we're talking about the 'send all mages to an island' route, I doubt most would be okay with that due to people still wanting magic and the fact that the mages could start up a kingdom that would later invade them if isolated to one place like that.

id like to live on a island, nice shores,a tree or two. But really jokes aside from he argument ive seen on both sides both have advocated extreme measures ,pro magi prefer total automony or ideal based system or a rise of a magoecracy, pro templar wish a return to the status quo with limits to mages harsher punishments

Some i even like wish for comprise but get cast down. So while i always open to comprise im not completly against a reset

[Puppy Love]

So a fantasy example won't work as a valid comparison to an argument about fantasy factions. lol okay. 

A real world example has more impact.  We can make up any story want to have whatever we want work.

 

I could say, all they need is to have a party and relax and everything will work out.  Then Bioware could go and have that actually happen in game.  Does not make that solution any less ridiculous because Bioware decided to go with it.  Real life can demonstrate how things work out in practice.  Something a made up story cannot.

[HiroVoid]

id like to live on a island, nice shores,a tree or two. But really jokes aside from he argument ive seen on both sides both have advocated extreme measures ,pro magi prefer total automony or ideal based system or a rise of a magoecracy, pro templar wish a return to the status quo with limits to mages harsher punishments

Some i even like wish for comprise but get cast down. So while i always open to comprise im not completly against a reset

Honestly, its kinda hard to come up with a system without proper statistics such as 'How often does a mage get possessed?', 'How much damage does the average demon do before it is killed?', 'Can demons hide in society after possessing a mage where they can get others possessed without others noticing?', etc.  Pretty sure one of my old joking solutions was to let the mages be free and then put em' back in the Circle if it ends up with more peasant deaths than mage deaths.  Also, possibly put a limit on mages in rulership/important economy positions.

[raging_monkey]

Honestly, its kinda hard to come up with a system without proper statistics such as 'How often does a mage get possessed?', 'How much damage does the average demon do before it is killed?', 'Can demons hide in society after possessing a mage where they can get others possessed without others noticing?', etc.  Pretty sure one of my old joking solutions was to let the mages be free and then put em' back in the Circle if it ends up with more peasant deaths than mage deaths.  Also, possibly put a limit on mages in rulership/important economy positions.

i remember made me laugh. But after acually listening the rhetorics and "facts" its hard to keep the idealist alive

[Hanako Ikezawa]

A real world example has more impact.  We can make up any story want to have whatever we want work.

 

I could say, all they need is to have a party and relax and everything will work out.  Then Bioware could go and have that actually happen in game.  Does not make that solution any less ridiculous because Bioware decided to go with it.  Real life can demonstrate how things work out in practice.  Something a made up story cannot.

So you want a real world example of two groups of people who have grudges with each other working together without betraying each other?

Alright: Great Britain and France.

Those two nations have centuries of grudges against each other, and yet have not been at war with each other for two centuries. 

[raging_monkey]

So you want a real world example of two groups of people who have grudges with each other working together without betraying each other?Alright: Great Britain and France.Those two nations have centuries of grudges against each other, and yet have not been at war with each other for two centuries.

fair point

[Puppy Love]

They were at war for two centuries.  It took them two centuries for that conflict to die down.  We're talking a war with pent up hate exploding in which both sides are run by complete psychopaths completely unwilling to compromise.  It is not the same thing.  Sure you want to let them duke it out for 2 centuries, that's a great solution.

[raging_monkey]

Double post ignore

[raging_monkey]

They were at war for two centuries.  It took them two centuries for that conflict to die down.  We're talking a war with pent up hate exploding in which both sides are run by complete psychopaths completely unwilling to compromise.  It is not the same thing.  Sure you want to let them duke it out for 2 centuries, that's a great solution.

They were at war for two centuries.  It took them two centuries for that conflict to die down.  We're talking a war with pent up hate exploding in which both sides are run by complete psychopaths completely unwilling to compromise.  It is not the same thing.  Sure you want to let them duke it out for 2 centuries, that's a great solution.

she never said that

[Puppy Love]

she never said that

The templars and mages just began their war.  Two factions warring for centuries finally getting over it and moving on is not the same thing.  I'm not saying the mages and templars cannot get over it and work together.  I'm saying as long as their no compromise extremist factions exist there will be no peace.  There are at this point terrorists on both sides, and they need to be taken care of.  The only way to do this is unite the non extremists on both sides, and root out and form a consensus to criminalize the extremists and take them out of power.

[Master Warder Z_]

The essay is well written, but the obligatory right wing slant was slightly nauseating.

 

Were liberal feels hurt?

[raging_monkey]

The templars and mages just began their war.  Two factions warring for centuries finally getting over it and moving on is not the same thing.  I'm not saying the mages and templars cannot get over it and work together.  I'm saying as long as their no compromise extremist factions exist there will be no peace.  There are at this point terrorists on both sides, and they need to be taken care of.  The only way to do this is unite the non extremists on both sides, and root out and form a consensus to criminalize the extremists and take them out of power.

i half agree that extremists should put down on both sides pupp but even if we reset the system where its fair to both sides. Whats to stop this from occuring again. I side with both groups despite preffering isolationism. What about the non-mages caught in the crossfire

[Willowhugger]

The essay is well written, but the obligatory right wing slant was slightly nauseating.

 

Do you mean left-wing? I'm sort of a crazed leftist.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

They were at war for two centuries.  It took them two centuries for that conflict to die down.  We're talking a war with pent up hate exploding in which both sides are run by complete psychopaths completely unwilling to compromise.  It is not the same thing.  Sure you want to let them duke it out for 2 centuries, that's a great solution.

So you immediately brush away a perfectly valid example of what you asked for. You are either trolling or just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. 

[Puppy Love]

There is no perfect solution, just better ones that are more likely to last longer.  There has yet to be any human society or organization that has stood the test of time.  Asking for a perfect solution is silly.  There is no such thing as a guarantee.

[Willowhugger]

The extremists that are never going to back down, and keep a cycle of terrorism and terrorism going being taken down is extreme?  Why?  It's their fault all those reasonable people on both sides are in danger.  I'm saying target the actual criminals and problem people.  Is better than the kill them all, or kill one side group think.  Is also better than trying to make peace with people who will sabotage it the second you turn your back.  There is no peace as long as the extremists on either side hold power.

 

I kind of agree.

There's a third ending to the Mage-Templar War that's called "Hawke's Solution."

"I'm going to keep killing the crazies amongst you Blood Mages and Fascist Religious Fanatics until SOMEONE sane rises to the top on both sides."