321 réponses à ce sujet

[Willowhugger]

Hey willo you mentioned you changed your own view how so?

 

My "canon" (and very headcanony) Mage Warden/Hawke run played on all the most aggressive anti-Circle options possible. Despite how much the Mage Warden loved Wynne, the idea of returning to the Circle was horrifying to him. He had a seething hatred of it and everything it stood for. Likewise, he hated Ser Gregoir, protected Jowan, and looked forward to take the fight to the Templars. He felt similarly in Dragon Age 2, taking pleasure in fighting the Templars with an Anders-like abandon (even if he killed him in the end).

RogueHawke wasn't much better, thinking Bethany would be happier as a Grey Warden than a Circle Mage because he saw the Circles as a form of Purgatory or a Crapsacharine Hell.

I got a little too much into their headspace.

 

It was a bit of a splash of cold water to read over the facts I assembled for this essay that the Enchanters have as much influence as they do, a reminder that Mages are probably MORE protected than the peasant families many come from, and that FREEEDDDDDDOM is kind of impossible when the populace doesn't want you to mix with them in the first place/you NEED to be educated in the use of your powers.

 

Getting rid of Tranquility and allowing mages to be with their children would have probably gone a long way to reconciling me now with the chantry.

[raging_monkey]

Hmm well done my mage warden and hawke were moderates but i think ill have to redo my inq from scratch he was a bit nuts for my taste

[Willowhugger]

Oh, my Inquisitor is still going to be the same guy as my MageWarden and MageHawke.

 

I play the same character in all three.

 

I think he'll just be a little shellshocked by the fact that he led Mages to fight for their freedom.

 

And then the Rift killed thousands of them.

 

...

 

That's going to be a kick to the nuts, that.

[Chari]

Way too biased to be taken seriously
Too pro-mage, anti-templar and anti-Chantry
What a waste of time

[Willowhugger]

Way too biased to be taken seriously
Too pro-mage, anti-templar and anti-Chantry
What a waste of time

Did you read the whole thing, btw?

[Icy Magebane]

Way too biased to be taken seriously
Too pro-mage, anti-templar and anti-Chantry
What a waste of time

To Willowhugger's credit, they did some editing in the second part and the third is actually very neutral...

[Chari]

Did you read the whole thing, btw?

Enough of the first one and your posts to realise you're pro-mage
If one is either pro mage or pro templar it always shows

[Willowhugger]

Enough of the first one and your posts to realise you're pro-mage
If one is either pro mage or pro templar it always shows

 

I look forward to your thoughts on part 2 and Part 3 then!

:-)

[ShadowLordXII]

Neat breakdown of the complexities of this entire mage-templar mess.

 

If I have to be honest, I'd be willing to be pro-templar if the Chantry wasn't so screwed up. Most of the things wrong with the templars can be traced back to Chantry policy and teachings. (There are some individuals who try to help matters, but overall the organization's flaws only allows so much)

 

Meanwhile, most mages aren't abominations and blood mages, but the Chantry's oppression leads more mages to turn to blood magic and demons because they don't feel like they have any other option.

[Chari]

I look forward to your thoughts on part 2 and Part 3 then!
:-)

No

[Willowhugger]

You disappoint me, Chari. You'd think a fan of Lina Inverse and Xellos would be more open minded.

:-p

[Willowhugger]

Neat breakdown of the complexities of this entire mage-templar mess.

 

If I have to be honest, I'd be willing to be pro-templar if the Chantry wasn't so screwed up. Most of the things wrong with the templars can be traced back to Chantry policy and teachings. (There are some individuals who try to help matters, but overall the organization's flaws only allows so much)

 

Meanwhile, most mages aren't abominations and blood mages, but the Chantry's oppression leads more mages to turn to blood magic and demons because they don't feel like they have any other option.

 

I pretty much agree. I think the Templars aren't necessarily people who have to be up in the mages business all the time but it's nice to have an anti-magic fighting force for when things hit the fan. The Templars would be awesome if they were allowed to actually do their job, too, instead of serve as guys hanging around the Circles 24-7 doing guard duty. This makes mages extremely paranoid and if Asunder is any indication, plenty of Templars actively hate mages.

 

This wouldn't be a problem if they weren't in a position of authority over them.

 

Ironically, the ones hunting Maleficar and demons actually seem to be the most reasonable as we see with Kirkwall and the Alienage. Probably because they know what evil mages look like.

The bad apples also ruin the entire barrel as friendly Templars can lead to something like Tevinter while repressive ones lead to something like Kirkwall.

I liked Ser Thrask but he was blinded to the fact some of his allies were, well, psychopaths.

 

It seems very hard to do, "Templars should hunt evil mages and evil mages alone."

 

Sorry Morrigan.

[Chari]

You disappoint me, Chari. You'd think a fan of Lina Inverse and Xellos would be more open minded.
:-p

Sorry, senpai, but if a mazoku even thinks about being wrong it hurts them. Literally. Hard to be a being of pure energy and mind...
I understand why circles and templars need to be, though I disagree with how crude they can be
I just don't care generally. I'm rather neutral when it comes to this conflict. Pro mages who see oppressors in people who just try to control folk capable of burning people alive with a thought and pro templars who see monsters in every mage made me lose all the interest in it

[Willowhugger]

Sorry, senpai, but if a mazoku even thinks about being wrong it hurts them. Literally. Hard to be a being of pure energy and mind...
I understand why circles and templars need to be, though I disagree with how crude they can be
I just don't care generally. I'm rather neutral when it comes to this conflict. Pro mages who see oppressors in people who just try to control folk capable of burning people alive with a thought and pro templars who see monsters in every mage made me lose all the interest in it

My general opinion in the article is "Here's the mages greviances", two "Blood Mages are pretty damn dangerous" and "Thedas is a pretty horrible place while Mages have it pretty good all things considered."

[Chari]

My general opinion in the article is "Here's the mages greviances", two "Blood Mages are pretty damn dangerous" and "Thedas is a pretty horrible place while Mages have it pretty good all things considered."

Still feels too pro mage
A mage doesn't need to be a blood mage to be dangerous. The magic itself is an incredible power hence it has to be controlled

[Willowhugger]

It should be controlled by the mage.

However, a lot of mages seem to be asshats.

What does it say my MageHawke and MageWarden have killed more Mages than most Templar....Chapters.

 

They're worried about that.

[Chari]

It should be controlled by the mage.
However, a lot of mages seem to be asshats.

What does it say my MageHawke and MageWarden have killed more Mages than most Templar....Chapters.

They're worried about that.

A mage is a person
People are cruel, selfish and mischievous generally
Hence there has to be someone who supervise us
Especially when these people can use frigging magic. And to make sure they won't be on the same side, the supervisors should not be mages
We don't need Tevinter 2.0

[Aimi]

It should be controlled by the mage.

[dragonflight288]

Hey, Willow, here's a thought.

 

I recently replayed the mage origin, and you may be interested in this. There's an enchanter training an apprentice how to use fire spells, but the mage sets himself alight because he panics and, as his mentor said, the flames react to his emotions. 

 

Another enchanter is trying to help his apprentice overcome fear by trying to help him know he can stand firm with his shield spell and withstand whatever is thrown at him, and that he needs to strengthen his will otherwise he would be easy prey to a demon. 

 

Essentially, the really powerful mages also need to have a strong mastery of their emotions, or at least be emotionally stable. 

[raging_monkey]

A mage is a personPeople are cruel, selfish and mischievous generallyHence there has to be someone who supervise usEspecially when these people can use frigging magic. And to make sure they won't be on the same side, the supervisors should not be magesWe don't need Tevinter 2.0

while prefer not to do broad strokes you are right about mages being human and capable of depravity... your alright

[dragonflight288]

A mage is a person
People are cruel, selfish and mischievous generally
Hence there has to be someone who supervise us
Especially when these people can use frigging magic. And to make sure they won't be on the same side, the supervisors should not be mages
We don't need Tevinter 2.0

 

True, but mages aren't the only ones who are a danger to thos around them.

Spoiler

 

It is important to note that the autonomy of the Circle's may not even lead to Tevinter 2.0 because the mages of the White Chantry have been separated from Tevinter for 1000 years, have developed their own cultures within the Circles, with an entire fraternity, one of the stronger ones, being loyal to the Chantry. 

[Chari]

True, but mages aren't the only ones who are a danger to thos around them.

Spoiler

It is important to note that the autonomy of the Circle's may not even lead to Tevinter 2.0 because the mages of the White Chantry have been separated from Tevinter for 1000 years, have developed their own cultures within the Circles, with an entire fraternity, one of the stronger ones, being loyal to the Chantry.

Only some templars use red lyrium, a unique substance never seen before
Every mage of any age, skills, gender and race is capable of becoming an abomination
It's like being born with guns instead of hands. You may not always want to hurt people but sometimes it just blows up and there is no way back

[ShadowLordXII]

Only some templars use red lyrium, a unique substance never seen before
Every mage of any age, skills, gender and race is capable of becoming an abomination
It's like being born with guns instead of hands. You may not always want to hurt people but sometimes it just blows up and there is no way back

 

Any templar can also pick up and use red lyrium. They can also use their martial arts training to oppress anyone beneath them (like crusaders did).

[raging_monkey]

Point is if magi and templars fight its gonna be mutual destruction

[Chari]

Any templar can also pick up and use red lyrium. They can also use their martial arts training to oppress anyone beneath them (like crusaders did).

The red lyrium is a rare object attainable only if enough effort is used. Martial arts training requires a lot of effort and skills
Magic and threat of being possessed is always with magi regardless of effort, capabilities and interest. It is a part of being a mage
To make it more clear: a templar is like a person who was taught how to use a sword in a fight. A mage is a person who was born with guns instead of hands and infinite ammo. The first one might abuse their power but take away the sword and they're just strong humans. The second one always has this power unless you cut their arms off