321 réponses à ce sujet

[raging_monkey]

I can agree to that. Blood magic gets a bad rap due usage by its darker practioners but it is amoral and that translates to evil to some

[Ieldra]

In short, it's not the One Ring but I'm comfortable saying my Blood Mage Hawke and Warden realize it's just a STUPID school of magic to pursue if you're not a wannabe Palpatine.

I disagree. Jowan ended up pretty decent. And as I said, it's nice to have a power reserve that can't be taken from you, and even better that spells powered by blood magic appear to go right through a templar's protection. Nothing for everyday use, but handy in an emergency.

As for the temptation, there is that, yes, but it's not so great unless you live in a culture where the disappearance of a few slaves can go uncommented. Tevinter's culture of slavery and its culture of blood sacrifice go hand in hand. The latter can't exist without the former.

[Ieldra]

I can agree to that. Blood magic gets a bad rap due usage by its darker practioners but it is amoral and that translates to evil to some

One wonders why. It isn't as if any of our tools had built-in ethics. I still think blood magic is reviled because in addition to being a powerful tool that can be abused, it's rather disgusting. Don't laugh, disgust actually underlies most of our notions of purity and any moral imperatives derived from them. If someone tells you "X is immoral" and you can't for the heck of it see a rational reason why it should be, look for notions of purity and disgust. Take sex, for instance. That it's enjoyable masks the fact that it's actually somewhat icky. Thus, sex is "dirty" and purity includes chastity.

[raging_monkey]

I disagree. Jowan ended up pretty decent. And as I said, it's nice to have a power reserve that can't be taken from you, and even better that spells powered by blood magic appear to go right through a templar's protection. Nothing for everyday use, but handy in an emergency.As for the temptation, there is that, yes, but it's not so great unless you live in a culture where the disappearance of a few slaves can go uncommented. Tevinter's culture of slavery and its culture of blood sacrifice go hand in hand. The latter can't exist without the former.

wouldntbitbbe safer or at least more enlightened if blood magic more known from a academic stand point rather religious

[Mistic]

That was a very nice read    The forum rarely offers the option to articulate a coherent argument or analysis.

[schall_und_rauch]

Interesting read.

 

My stance on the whole mage-vs-templar thing can be summed down to the opinion that mages don't worry me. And I don't believe the templars when they say I should be worried. I'm more likely to be shanked in a bar than eaten by an abomination. You can hear those coming a mile away.

"Grr. Argh!" "Oh, is that an abomination coming to eat us? We should get out of here!"

[Ieldra]

wouldntbitbbe safer or at least more enlightened if blood magic more known from a academic stand point rather religious

That goes for the whole controversy about magic. The Chant of Light condemns the magisters for something that isn't evil in the least (the breach of the Golden City) while making no mention at all of the monstrous evil committed in the same context (killing hundreds of slaves for power). From my POV, that's a rather f*cked-up value hierarchy.

[Master Warder Z_]

I disagree. Jowan ended up pretty decent

 

Right, Lying to everyone, Studying the forbidden, Attacking Mages and Templars, poisoning a noble, teaching a child magic which resulted in hundreds of deaths.

 

Honestly if he had a higher body count i'd compare him to Mao.

[raging_monkey]

That goes for the whole controversy about magic. The Chant of Light condemns the magisters for something that isn't evil in the least (the breach of the Golden City) while making no mention at all of the monstrous evil committed in the same context (killing hundreds of slaves for power). From my POV, that's a rather f*cked-up value hierarchy.

agreed but curious why demonize all magi for a anchient incident. Punishment shouldnt last eternity

[Master Warder Z_]

agreed but curious why demonize all magi for a anchient incident. Punishment shouldnt last eternity

 

Because the after effects aren't done.

 

Darkspawn still exist, the Blights will still happen.

 

Until that ends?

 

That crime cannot, nor should it be it, be forgiven.

[raging_monkey]

If it ends what then by your words. I am curious my friend

[Master Warder Z_]

If it ends what then by your words. I am curious my friend

 

Then we will see what the state of the world is then.

[raging_monkey]

Thats... actually pretty fair and leanient Z *shocked monkey*

[Ieldra]

agreed but curious why demonize all magi for a anchient incident. Punishment shouldnt last eternity

My hypothesis is that it works the same way as justifications of racism. First there is the wish to look down on some group, and that takes shapes once a convenient justification comes along. The wish to look down can be fueled by different things. Jealousy of the powers a mage could wield, the need to feel on top of *someone* because you don't want to see that you have no power. Such things. On the political side, having a convenient scapegoat can be useful for stabilizing a regime. Then, specific ideological reasons. A belief that humans shouldn't have such powers (again, possible driven by jealousy or fear), or, yet again, notions of purity, the idea that it's a virtue to remain "untainted" by magic, which goes hand in hand with making the mageborn untouchable (this was actually recently argued in this forum, to my surprise, by a particularly endarkened mind, if he wasn't roleplaying). And so on.

And no, the breach of the Golden City was not a crime. It was an expedition into the unknown which resulted, accidentally or by manipulation of an unknown force, in a disaster. In our times, we would demand damages from those responsible, but we would not morally condemn them. Not for that, anyway.

[raging_monkey]

Heh reasonable i just figured it was class and wealthbissue since magi better educated and have generally more money then the average person. And few people generally believe what they post if it sounds overtly cruel

[Ieldra]

Heh reasonable i just figured it was class and wealthbissue since magi better educated and have generally more money then the average person.

That would fall under "jealousy", plausible as a contributing factor. However, that alone is insufficient as an explanation, since it's shared by several other groups.

[raging_monkey]

Hmm perhaps circles should be open to the public (for x amountvof tutition) like a community college it will allieviate the jealous issue the rest is eugenics

[Icy Magebane]

Hmm perhaps circles should be open to the public (for x amountvof tutition) like a community college it will allieviate the jealous issue the rest is eugenics

To study what, exactly?  The Circle isn't a school where they teach blacksmithing... mages have access to arcane lore because it's necessary for them to be able to resist demons in the Fade.

[Master Warder Z_]

To study what, exactly?  The Circle isn't a school where they teach blacksmithing... mages have access to arcane lore because it's necessary for them to be able to resist demons in the Fade.

 

Exactly, beyond that studying of the fade by the common people likely wouldn't work overly well anyway.

 

Most of those that could likely afford to go to the circle, already have their own tutors who teach them the skills needed for lordship, Beyond that?

 

Most of the populace of Thedas appear to be...well ignorant and illiterate.

[raging_monkey]

To study what, exactly?  The Circle isn't a school where they teach blacksmithing... mages have access to arcane lore because it's necessary for them to be able to resist demons in the Fade.

Perhaps but they could be like diagna or we could just give them a basic education

[Ieldra]

Hmm perhaps circles should be open to the public (for x amountvof tutition) like a community college it will allieviate the jealous issue the rest is eugenics

That's something I've argued before. Isolation breeds suspicion, and suspicion breeds persecution. On the mages' side, isolation breeds disregard. Remember the Illusive Man from ME? I think he got this way because he was isolated from those he originally set out to protect and advance. There were external factors at work, too, but the isolation helped him along, I'm sure.

I think everyone would profit from more contact between the Circles and general society, and the Circles might actually become decent places to live for the mageborn, provided the templars can be convinced to be less intrusive. All this contingent on there being a Circle system in the first place. I'm curious about the options DAIs story will provide in that.

[raging_monkey]

That's something I've argued before. Isolation breeds suspicion, and suspicion breeds persecution. On the mages' side, isolation breeds disregard. Remember the Illusive Man from ME? I think he got this way because he was isolated from those he originally set out to protect and advance. There were external factors at work, too, but the isolation helped him along, I'm sure.I think everyone would profit from more contact between the Circles and general society, and the Circles might actually become decent places to live for the mageborn, provided the templars can be convinced to be less intrusive. All this contingent on there being a Circle system in the first place. I'm curious about the options DAIs story will provide in that.

after me3 i stopped listening to reaper-husks lol. But yes while i feel templars are intrusive i get their reasons but i am also curious how DAI will resolve this they played it up to the point of maddness

[Master Warder Z_]

Remember the Illusive Man from ME?

 

He was the best Lawful evil character Bioware ever did...and then they completely ruined him.

 

And i will never forgive them for it, never ever.

[Icy Magebane]

Perhaps but they could be like diagna or we could just give them a basic education

This just seems rather impractical given the average techological level of the Thedosian nations.  Peasants need to worry about planting crops and raising animals.  Some of them may need to learn some form of craftsmanship like tailoring, leather working, or metallurgy, but education for the sake of learning is the result of advanced technology and modern conveniences.  It would mean little for a farmer to have an understanding of arcane lore or the nature of magic... Dagna went to the Circle with something very specific in mind.  The average peasant, or even the average noble, probably wouldn't get much benefit from pure scholarship, regardless of the subject.

 

You're talking about skipping from the Middle Ages to the Modern Age, with no Renaissance or Industrial Age in between.

[Master Warder Z_]

You're talking about skipping from the Middle Ages to the Modern Age, with no Renaissance or Industrial Age in between.

 

I think its amusing that most Pro Mages seem to wish to do this.

 

Impractical as it is.