again isolation is becoming a better option. Away from non-magi since its punish til eternity or kill'em all
But it will be a hard road ahead.
And it will require them holding themselves to a higher moral standard than regular Thedans hold themselves.
Which is unfair and sucks but that's life.
I disagree that arlik solution or hunting mages down won't work it will work if properly executed.
"Any plan which relies on the competence of the people performing it is an inherently bad plan."
-Headcanon Silly Hawke dialogue.
"Any plan which relies on the competence of the people performing it is an inherently bad plan."
-Headcanon Silly Hawke dialogue.
If peoples are properly trained to task they are doing it isn't in case for most of time if it was in case our civilization would fall long time ago.
Isn't that generally the case when they are exposed to and then uplifted by "advanced" societies who made the transition first? Who is going to do that for the people of Thedas? Not the Qunari, I hope...
Well take China for instance in that it's model of history doesn't go the same way as Europe, being the most advanced civilization on Earth until suddenly it wasn't (and the Industrial Revolution sort of jumped everyone as it happened over a very short period of time to change EVERYTHING). We don't know what a changed Thedan society might look like or how for example.
Really, you need someone with an idea how to change it and the force to make it so.
If peoples are properly trained to task they are doing it isn't in case for most of time if it was in case our civilization would fall long time ago.
Properly trained to kill/capture mages, not sympathize with apostates, stand against the families of said beings, and be able to hunt down them better than they have in Thedas before now is something I don't believe the Templars could ever achieve. Especially the moment a country like Fereldan or Orlais decides that it would prefer to have Mage Forces.
See Loghain.
Then the Templars are well and truly ****ed. They are only able to do their jobs now with the support of the countries around them and as we saw with Jowan, it took barely any effort at all for Loghain to render the Templars' advantages moot.
Templars are good at stopping mages but if a regular army faces them? They got nothing.
Isn't that generally the case when they are exposed to and then uplifted by "advanced" societies who made the transition first? Who is going to do that for the people of Thedas? Not the Qunari, I hope...
Oh Icy your being foolish!
Far to the North there are liberal democracies based on Sweden and Greece! (I am joking obviously)
Gaider explained that the next book of WOT would cover the northern lands.
Now we go to genocide and it only took 7 pages.... all pro-mages should be isolationists
I don't know how the game will present the choice but my Inquisitor's goal as now?
MageInquisitor will want to defeat the Templars in open battle and proceed to force their forces as well as the Mages into a single group. The Inquisition will then supervise the Circle system rather than the Templars with Mages being allowed to rise to the top of it but Templars also watching the Mages back and vice versa. They will attempt to destroy immoral uses of magic while using magic for the public good.
I'll have to watch it so it doesn't end up like the Black Divide but the Inquisition will try to channel all that energy to improving the lot of Thedans everywhere.
Hopefully, we can keep the Inquisition out of the civil wars of existing nations too.
I'd have more sympathy for the "we need a Renaissance and Industrial Age period from Medieval" except for the fact that there's been plenty of cultures which have moved directly from Medieval to Modern Democracies.
Sometimes it works great, other times it doesn't.
However, the idea there's a "proper course" of history doesn't really hold weight with me.
While an easy defense to make, that's also one I disagree with as an Anti-Blood Magic user/Pro Mage Terrorist. Not the least because every time I used Blood Magic it seemed to make it WORSE for my party.
Blood Magic as a tool of desperation is a common defense from Blood Magicians but we see plenty of mages using it as an excuse to abuse other people. Hadriana and Denarius are both Blood Mages but neither of them have any claim to being the wronged party. So is the Slaver in the Denerim Alienage. Grace is a murderous scumbag who along with her fellow apostates use blood magic to lash out at people. Hawke may be as Pro-Mage as anyone but is nearly forced to kill himself by the prostitute Apostate. Jowan turned to Blood Magic as a way to catch up with the Amell but it ended up ruining his life and the lives of others.
Just because one is a victim does not give one the right to victimize others. Those mages who resort to Blood Magic and demon worship when backed into a corner more or less just show they're no better than the Templars because the Templars resort to oppression because THEY think they're backed into a corner. You have to draw the line somewhere and avoiding magic which can bring demons down on your head seems like a good a place to do it as any.
Wow, I sound like Wynne now.
And my Mageneto HATES Wynne's politics.
Yes you are correct on you examples of blood mage criminals. Is not the same thing. If someone tries to rape me and I shoot them with a gun it's self defense. If I then go out and shoot men who've done nothing to me it's murder. If I take a gun and kill people with it who are not trying to hurt me it's murder.
You are confusing the excuse with the act.
Replace the gun with blood magic and it's exactly the same watch.
If someone tries to rape me and I use blood magic to make them stop it's self defense (and surprisingly less lethal). If I then go out and use blood magic to kill or harm men who've done nothing to me it's murder and assault. If I use blood magic to kill people who are not trying to hurt me for my own personal gain, it's murder.
People need to learn to distance someone making an excuse from the people who actually are telling the truth.
Plus in real life we have laws on what constitutes reasonable self defense. Using blood magic to peacefully stop a rapist, should be perfectly reasonable. Using blood magic to unleash demons to on the world to kill your attacker and then run off to kill anyone else they desire is not. The two should be treated differently because of the crime itself, not the tool used.
Yes you are correct on you examples of blood mage criminals. Is not the same thing. If someone tries to rape me and I shoot them with a gun it's self defense. If I then go out and shoot men who've done nothing to me it's murder. If I take a gun and kill people with it who are not trying to hurt me it's murder.
The thing is, blood magic is like using an Uzi in a crowded restaraunt to stop the people trying to shoot you.
Yes, in certain circumstances it might work.
However, if you summon a demon to stop yourself from being killed and it kills a bunch of people.
Well, that's a problem too.
I think it shouldn't be an "Blood Magic or Murdered" situation but "Can I lightning bolt the guy in the face instead?" situation.
well this is the dragon age time of killing each other well lets have funI agree that there is no "proper" course of history. I would like to point out, however, that there is no ideological or philosophical basis whatsoever in Thedas for a widely accepted theory of sapient rights. The only system that comes close is the Chantry, ironically enough - "all are the Maker's children" and all that - but in practice it doesn't go nearly far enough and is not universally accepted anyway.Without a reason for people to consider others outside their own community to be, well, "people", I don't see how anything even remotely approximating modern Western liberal/social democracy could even be contemplated. Nobody would go along with it. The identities that matter most to Thedosians are corporate, exclusive identities, not universal ones. I am a mage, and you are not. I am Dalish, and you are not. I am a member of House Helmi, and you are not. I am viddathari in service to the Beresaad, and you are not.In order to work, any political system would need to focus more on balancing these communities and their interests against each other, and focus less on compelling them to unify. Which doesn't bring us too terribly far from where we started in the first place.
I agree that there is no "proper" course of history. I would like to point out, however, that there is no ideological or philosophical basis whatsoever in Thedas for a widely accepted theory of sapient rights. The only system that comes close is the Chantry, ironically enough - "all are the Maker's children" and all that - but in practice it doesn't go nearly far enough and is not universally accepted anyway.
Without a reason for people to consider others outside their own community to be, well, "people", I don't see how anything even remotely approximating modern Western liberal/social democracy could even be contemplated. Nobody would go along with it. The identities that matter most to Thedosians are corporate, exclusive identities, not universal ones. I am a mage, and you are not. I am Dalish, and you are not. I am a member of House Helmi, and you are not. I am viddathari in service to the Beresaad, and you are not.
In order to work, any political system would need to focus more on balancing these communities and their interests against each other, and focus less on compelling them to unify. Which doesn't bring us too terribly far from where we started in the first place.
I totally get what you're saying and I totally agree. Also, bluntly, we don't have peace in the world NOW so it'd be silly to say it would work replicating modern Westernized democracy. We'd also need modernized farming techniques, trading networks, and technology. I mentioned "The Freedom of Property" in my essay and that mages have freedom of property more than most Thedans. Being free from hunger, disease, and homelessness is a freedom which allows the Mages to worry about other kinds.
I will say, however, it's notable there's some precedent for IMPROVING the rights of man, though.
Ironically, elves, humans, and other races meet as equals in the Grey Wardens, the Circle of Magi, and the Inquisition. So there's a precedent for getting rid of racism in certain groups.
That can be built on.
Properly trained to kill/capture mages, not sympathize with apostates, stand against the families of said beings, and be able to hunt down them better than they have in Thedas before now is something I don't believe the Templars could ever achieve. Especially the moment a country like Fereldan or Orlais decides that it would prefer to have Mage Forces.
See Loghain.
Then the Templars are well and truly ****ed. They are only able to do their jobs now with the support of the countries around them and as we saw with Jowan, it took barely any effort at all for Loghain to render the Templars' advantages moot.
Templars are good at stopping mages but if a regular army faces them? They got nothing.
Of course it is possible proper teachings from young age and good traning should solve that problem.Not rly from understand mages are under chantry control not orlais or ferelden pretty much reason why alistair can't do much about it.
Loghain in fact was renegade that came to power thanks to blight and chaos but still in the end would end poorly if went against the chantry.So country don't have anything to say about how mages are treated.
They don't have to face regular army they are only to face mages and mages only same as wardens are for darkspawn.
Of course it is possible proper teachings from young age and good traning should solve that problem.Not rly from understand mages are under chantry control not orlais or ferelden pretty much reason why alistair can't do much about it.
Loghain in fact was renegade that came to power thanks to blight and chaos but still in the end would end poorly if went against the chantry.So country don't have anything to say about how mages are treated.
They don't have to face regular army they are only to face mages and mages only same as wardens are for darkspawn.
Loghain was a renegade and it was a Blight but he was only a renegade after he lost. If he'd won, he'd have been King. The response from the chantry to Loghain and jowan?
"That's not right!"
The Grey Wardens do the same thing to the Templars in Awakening.
"He's with us."
"You can't take that Apostate!"
"I'm pretty sure we can."
As long as mages make things fall down, people will want them and then the Templars have to deal with not only the mages but the people protecting them. Take a look at the Dwarves.
What happens when the Mages build a Circle there. The Chantry threatens an Exalted March but that doesn't mean it didn't happen nor would they be able to necessarilly get one. One of the things in history which happened to the Crusades was the Pope kept calling them until people....stopped caring.
Yes you are correct on you examples of blood mage criminals. Is not the same thing. If someone tries to rape me and I shoot them with a gun it's self defense. If I then go out and shoot men who've done nothing to me it's murder. If I take a gun and kill people with it who are not trying to hurt me it's murder.
You are confusing the excuse with the act.
Replace the gun with blood magic and it's exactly the same watch.
If someone tries to rape me and I use blood magic to make them stop it's self defense (and surprisingly less lethal). If I then go out and use blood magic to kill or harm men who've done nothing to me it's murder and assault. If I use blood magic to kill people who are not trying to hurt me for my own personal gain, it's murder.
People need to learn to distance someone making an excuse from the people who actually are telling the truth.
Plus in real life we have laws on what constitutes reasonable self defense. Using blood magic to peacefully stop a rapist, should be perfectly reasonable. Using blood magic to unleash demons to on the world to kill your attacker and then run off to kill anyone else they desire is not. The two should be treated differently because of the crime itself, not the tool used.
Mages don't "just use" blood magic to get themselves out of bad situations, it has to be studied and mastered like any other form of magic. Alternatively, the knowledge can be given by a demon. The point is that learning blood magic is forbidden, and even though it can be used in a non-hostile manner such as self-defense, the mage in question is already in violation of the law by having previously learned it.
In your example, the victim could be committing an act of self-defense by shooting the rapist with an unregistered gun, but in that case they would still be in violation of the law and subject to punishment for the specific crime of unlawful possession of a firearm (not murder).
The thing is, blood magic is like using an Uzi in a crowded restaraunt to stop the people trying to shoot you.
Yes, in certain circumstances it might work.
However, if you summon a demon to stop yourself from being killed and it kills a bunch of people.
Well, that's a problem too.
I think it shouldn't be an "Blood Magic or Murdered" situation but "Can I lightning bolt the guy in the face instead?" situation.
How about this, can I use blood magic to make this person stop and turn himself in, or lightning bolt him in the face and kill him? Remember blood magic is mind control as well as demon summoning.
Is more having a stun gun and automatic fire on the same weapon, and lumping the people that use the stun gun in with the people that use the automatic fire option, and telling people instead of using the weapon with the non lethal option, to use a shot gun instead.
How about this, can I use blood magic to make this person stop and turn himself in, or lightning bolt him in the face and kill him? Remember blood magic is mind control as well as demon summoning.
Is more having a stun gun and automatic fire on the same weapon, and lumping the people that use the stun gun in with the people that use the automatic fire option, and telling people instead of using the weapon with the non lethal option, to use a shot gun instead.
Like I said, I think Blood Magic can be used morally and ethically.
Hawke and the Warden can both be ethical blood mags.
Merrill is an ethical Blood Mage.
However, I think the vast-vast majority of people will abuse it and it should probably be outlawed on that regard.
Merrill was smart, clever, and careful but even she got outsmarted by a demon.
Maybe exceptions can also be made as we saw with Malcolm Hawke binding Corypheus.
Mages don't "just use" blood magic to get themselves out of bad situations, it has to be studied and mastered like any other form of magic. Alternatively, the knowledge can be given by a demon. The point is that learning blood magic is forbidden, and even though it can be used in a non-hostile manner such as self-defense, the mage in question is already in violation of the law by having previously learned it.
In your example, the victim could be committing an act of self-defense by shooting the rapist with an unregistered gun, but in that case they would still be in violation of the law and subject to punishment for the specific crime of unlawful possession of a firearm (not murder).
This is true. I can agree with this.
The problem here is, that there is no way to be a legal blood mage. So it's usually learned from demons, and as a criminal act. Like drugs and prostitution, it is far easier to regulate if there are legal ways to go about it as it reduces and lessens the criminal element and makes it safer.
Keeping it illegal makes it impossible to track, and makes sure only the criminals are armed with this weapon.
Loghain was a renegade and it was a Blight but he was only a renegade after he lost. If he'd won, he'd have been King. The response from the chantry to Loghain and jowan?
"That's not right!"
The Grey Wardens do the same thing to the Templars in Awakening.
"He's with us."
"You can't take that Apostate!"
"I'm pretty sure we can."
As long as mages make things fall down, people will want them and then the Templars have to deal with not only the mages but the people protecting them. Take a look at the Dwarves.What happens when the Mages build a Circle there. The Chantry threatens an Exalted March but that doesn't mean it didn't happen nor would they be able to necessarilly get one. One of the things in history which happened to the Crusades was the Pope kept calling them until people....stopped caring.
From what i remember loghain was shaking in fear when warden pointed he helped apostate escape to grand cleric and could do nothing more than tell that he will accept consequences.
Grey wardens have right to recruit apostate or anyone this is accepted for sake that wardens are necessity.Sorry but i failed those protectors when templars take away mages from nobles or when they pull RoA.Not at all mages are walking bombs and pretty much sure now peoples more than ever will see what damage and how dangerous mages are on their own skin so peoples even without help will want burn mages.And in fact countries have access to mages mostly in time of cricis like qunari or blights hell not even then they are still chantry forces. Peoples won't risk for bunch of walking bombs that they hate anyway.
Like I said, I think Blood Magic can be used morally and ethically.
Hawke and the Warden can both be ethical blood mags.Merrill is an ethical Blood Mage.
However, I think the vast-vast majority of people will abuse it and it should probably be outlawed on that regard.
Merrill was smart, clever, and careful but even she got outsmarted by a demon.
Maybe exceptions can also be made as we saw with Malcolm Hawke binding Corypheus.
Hawke and warden were pc that didn't had fear about any consequences of being mage . blood mage or templar.
Merrill was dumb as hell and pretty much plot armor is only thing that protected her from becoming abomnation.
Malcolm hawke was only sane blood mage and he used that once and could explode...
This is true. I can agree with this.
The problem here is, that there is no way to be a legal blood mage. So it's usually learned from demons, and as a criminal act. Like drugs and prostitution, it is far easier to regulate if there are legal ways to go about it as it reduces and lessens the criminal element.
Decriminalizing blood magic? Hm... I'm not sure how that would ever be acceptable considering the stigma attached. This isn't like gambling or alcohol prohibition. The people of Thedas are very serious about this and blood magic carries a death penalty in every nation except Tevinter. It's possible that attitudes could change, but it would probably take centuries... I mean, we're talking about a capital offense that has been accepted by a highly superstitious population for over a thousand years. It would take a lot of time to get past that mindset...
This is true. I can agree with this.
The problem here is, that there is no way to be a legal blood mage. So it's usually learned from demons, and as a criminal act. Like drugs and prostitution, it is far easier to regulate if there are legal ways to go about it as it reduces and lessens the criminal element.
I dunno, drugs and prostitution are mostly victimless crimes if everything if safe, sane, consensual and the victims are adults aware of the risks. All big ifs.
What's the legal justification for summoning demons, mind-control you can use at any time, and magic which works best if you kill someone for it?
Blood Magic seems like a sucker's bet in some ways.
A way for demons to increase their presence on Thedas.
Peoples won't risk for bunch of walking bombs that they hate anyway.
The Carta shows they will by the number of mages that Jarvia had in her service.
As long as mages provide power, they will have allies.
We also saw that Templars are no more immune to bribery, corruption, and sympathy than other groups.
You'd need Space Marine-levels of devotion to keep the Psykers down and they barely do that in Warhammer 40K.
That's my .02 and I'm dropping it.
Merrill was dumb as hell and pretty much plot armor is only thing that protected her from becoming abomnation.
We finally agree on something.
Retour en haut