271 réponses à ce sujet

[Qun00]

Hey, Anders left the Wardens easily enough. Why not her?

Nah, she wouldn't have to. The HoF mantains his title as Warden-Commander even if he went through the mirror with Morrigan to look after Kieran.
 

[ThomasBlaine]

Hey, Anders left the Wardens easily enough. Why not her?

 

The more I think about it, the more I think Maric acknowledging Alistair wouldn't be the huge deal people make it out to be. Succession goes from father to eldest male heir, i.e. eldest son if he has one. Alistair is the younger brother. If Cailan and Alistair been full blood-brothers, would Maric have had to kill or get rid of his younger son just because the boys might fight over the crown one day? No, he'd keep him. Just give him a Teyrndom or something so Alistair would have some providence to be responsible for so he wouldn't have time or desire to take the whole country from his elder brother. (Then again, it seems to be an inherent Theirin trait not to want to rule. Maric, Cailan, and Alistair ALL dislike ruling and try to pass the responsibility off to someone else first chance they get.)

 

Besides, that doesn't really change the fact that Maric passed him off to someone who neglected and allowed his wife to mistreats him, and as likely as not knew that abuse was going on and did nothing. Not even so much as a letter or a visit to Eamon saying, "Hey! I see how you're treating my kid. Knock it off." Nut-up, dude. It takes more to raise a kid than just rolling off a woman and then passing the bundle of stink off to someone else.

 

Maric and Fiona both brought him into this world, so I'm not giving them a free pass for just dumping him in it. 

 

To be honest I think you're vastly underestimating the difficulties Fiona and Maric each would have faced if they'd tried to "keep" Alistair, and the difficulties he would have faced growing up with either of them.

 

An elven apostate with a working phylactery living on the run with a baby isn't a realistic alternative to anything, and Maric was still very much beholden to the Landsmeet, most of whom adored Rowan, despised elves, feared mages, hated Orlesians and would demand to know the identity of the child's mother. He couldn't just do whatever he wanted with Ferelden's line of succession. Both of them wanting to distance Alistair from that makes some sense, and giving him to Maric's apparently estimable and honorable brother-in-law to foster would be a sensible decision on the face of it.

 

That brother-in-law then completely having dropped the ball and Maric's failure to pick up on and/or correct that before getting himself captured by foreigners for a decade and a half is the real idiocy. Alistair could have grown up better than fine if Eamon hadn't been such an ass or Maric had made more of an effort to manage the situation. That's where the parental responsibility, and common sense, lapsed in my mind. That, and Maric and Fiona not keeping it in their pants in the first place.

 

None of which changes the severe degree to which Eamon is an incompetent, ungrateful, traitorous, scheming ******* and abusive and exploitative father figure, obviously.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

An elven apostate with a working phylactery living on the run with a baby isn't a realistic alternative to anything, and Maric was still very much beholden to the Landsmeet, most of whom adored Rowan, despised elves, feared mages, hated Orlesians and would demand to know the identity of the child's mother. He couldn't just do whatever he wanted with Ferelden's line of succession. Both of them wanting to distance Alistair from that makes some sense, and giving him to Maric's apparently estimable and honorable brother-in-law to foster would be a sensible decision on the face of it.

The Landsmeet only needs to know about Alistair if he's going to be an heir, which it took a Blight and a succession crisis for them to accept in canon because they don't like the thought of royal bastards inheriting. All those reasons why Fiona isn't an acceptable mother to a king's heir don't matter because Alistair's simply not the heir. And since he's not the heir or even a substitute that would be accepted under normal circumstances, Maric can evade or simply refuse to answer any questions about Alistair's mother, if he chooses to tell the Landsmeet about him at all.

[Illegitimus]

The Landsmeet only needs to know about Alistair if he's going to be an heir, 

 

 

If he was brought into the palace they'd know.  

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

If he was brought into the palace they'd know.  

It depends on two things: whether they're spying on their king (which is arguably mild treason, though probably at least a few are doing it anyway) and how secret it's kept (stashing Alistair in Redcliffe was a good way to avoid being seen as his father figure, but it could probably be done even if they were under the same roof if Alistair was represented as... for example, a son of the seneschal or another important servant.)

 

And even if he can't (or chooses not to) keep it secret, all he has to do is point out that since Alistair's not the heir and wouldn't be accepted by the Landsmeet it doesn't really matter who his mother was. An unpopular king would lose points for that, but after what he did to Ceorlic those who have reason not to love Maric are scared and those who love him are probably quietly scared of him, so he's safe barring a considerably worse breach of conduct.

 

During Origins Loghain implies that Rowan was still alive when Maric decided where Alistair was going, and in that context preserving her appearance of honor (to say nothing of the peace of his household) at the cost of the substance of Maric's honor (which is a ship that you can argue had already sailed) was an understandable reason for Maric to do what he did. The thing is, my understanding is that The Calling retconned the timeline and therefore obviated the very best reason for Maric not to take a more active hand in raising Alistair.

[Aren]

 

 

During Origins Loghain implies that Rowan was still alive when Maric decided where Alistair was going, and in that context preserving her appearance of honor (to say nothing of the peace of his household) at the cost of the substance of Maric's honor (which is a ship that you can argue had already sailed) was an understandable reason for Maric to do what he did. The thing is, my understanding is that The Calling retconned the timeline and therefore obviated the very best reason for Maric not to take a more active hand in raising Alistair.

I don't think the writers retconned something,they just have problems in doing the math and as such they are a disaster when it comes  to the timeline

[Qun00]

they are a disaster when it comes to the timeline

*cough*mahariel*cough"

[ModernAcademic]

I don't understand why he is not hated by fans?
 
This guy was entrusted in raising a king's bastard son, but let Isolde abuse him, and made him sleep on haystacks in stables.
 
Both Alistiar and some people around him knew about his lineage; yet Arl Eamon did not even bother giving him a room other servants would have been given. He was part of Isolde's abusing of Alistiar, or at least treated him very poorly, then sent him to a chantry.
 
I really hate Eamon and tried to find ways to kill him to no avail. To put it simply, I think the guy is a dick and I take issue with not being able to call him such. I can't even ask Alister why he loves the guy who knew of his royal lineage but forced him to sleep in stables with horse shits and kicked him out to monastery against his will. One of definate WTH moments in DA:O.
 
What is your thoughts of Arl Eamon?

I hate him for thinking about politics during a time of crisis. He doesn't even offer the Warden any aid on his/her mission.

Where child Alistair is concerned, I hate Isolde for pressuring her husband to the point he deprived an innocent of having a real home.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I hate him for thinking about politics during a time of crisis. He doesn't even offer the Warden any aid on his/her mission.

Where child Alistair is concerned, I hate Isolde for pressuring her husband to the point he deprived an innocent of having a real home.

Most of this is legitimate, but "thinking about politics in a time of crisis" really isn't. One of the major problems he has to solve is that the country's soldiers are currently killing each other. Yeah, he manipulates the situation to benefit himself and to dye the country in his colors, and that's (arguably) a legitimate thing to call him out on, but if the worst he did was politic in a time of crisis there'd be nothing to call him out on because part of the crisis is political. (And the main thing he does that ends up benefiting him really does seem like a good idea at the start of the Landsmeet arc, when you don't realize that there's any chance of turning Anora against Loghain and therefore don't know that there's any alternative to Alistair as king besides Eamon himself. So that's a questionably fair allegation too.)

[Illegitimus]

I hate him for thinking about politics during a time of crisis. He doesn't even offer the Warden any aid on his/her mission.
 

 

Politics is exactly what he should be thinking about in a time of crisis because the best possible thing he could do for the warden is help get Loghain out of the way.  And all the human troops at the Battle of Denerim are his.  

[Aren]

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I've never done that myself, so how does he really react? Does Dragon Age Confessions have it here?

 

Edit: If this is actually what Eamon looks like if you do this, I think his facial expression is this game's version of "really hurting, but keeping it together due to a combination of needing to keep his eyes on the bigger picture and knowing there's nothing he can do anyway." Though a possibly-wrong interpretation of one screenshot is less than I'd want to draw conclusions based on.

[Mike3207]

It' s been a  while, but I think it was in the vein of "I hope you've made the right decision Warden. You've ended the line of Maric, and in  return we get Anora. Let's hope you have not made a huge mistake."

 

He doesn't show a  lot of emotion about the death of Alistair. You'd think from his reaction Alistair was a total stranger to him. Of course, none of the companions show a lot of emotion about Alistair's death, to be fair. Maybe they all think if they say anything they'll be next.

 

I'm actually interested what happens if you import a execute Alistair scenario into Inquisition. I don't think anything is said about him in Da2, but I wonder if they retcon Alistair as King anyway in Inquisition.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

It' s been a  while, but I think it was in the vein of "I hope you've made the right decision Warden. You've ended the line of Maric, and in  return we get Anora. Let's hope you have not made a huge mistake."

 

He doesn't show a  lot of emotion about the death of Alistair. You'd think from his reaction Alistair was a total stranger to him. Of course, none of the companions show a lot of emotion about Alistair's death, to be fair. Maybe they all think if they say anything they'll be next.

I don't know if I like the implications of this for Eamon's character. I'm beginning to really think the people who don't think of Eamon as an adequate father figure for Alistair really have something.

 

I think the companions not showing emotion is just that Bioware didn't go to the effort. Though I could imagine Zevran (who lived because you suffered it and lives because you still do) or Shale (who probably doesn't care much) reacting that way anyway. Wynne, on the other hand, is not nearly as pragmatic as they are and really seems to care for Alistair barring this.

[sniper_arrow]

It' s been a  while, but I think it was in the vein of "I hope you've made the right decision Warden. You've ended the line of Maric, and in  return we get Anora. Let's hope you have not made a huge mistake."

 

He doesn't show a  lot of emotion about the death of Alistair. You'd think from his reaction Alistair was a total stranger to him. Of course, none of the companions show a lot of emotion about Alistair's death, to be fair. Maybe they all think if they say anything they'll be next.

 

I'm actually interested what happens if you import a execute Alistair scenario into Inquisition. I don't think anything is said about him in Da2, but I wonder if they retcon Alistair as King anyway in Inquisition.

 

Alistair is still dead in Inquisition if he was executed. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I'm actually interested what happens if you import a execute Alistair scenario into Inquisition. I don't think anything is said about him in Da2, but I wonder if they retcon Alistair as King anyway in Inquisition.

I've imported three saves* so far, and Alistair was king in none of them. As far as I can tell, he's still nobody of consequence in the Drunkistair save, and dead in the Sacrifice Alistair save. And he certainly wasn't king in the save where I gave him absolutely the ending he wanted by not doing anything to interfere with his Warden career. (As a side note, have you played Inquisition? Or read anything about the bits of the plot that concern the Grey Wardens or Redcliffe?)

 

* Well, okay not really, but I did my utmost to make my Keep states match what I would have imported.

[Mike3207]

I haven't played Inquisition yet, though I did previously order a copy from Amazon. i returned it when i realized it wouldn't be able to register it. Registration is a big deal for me when it comes to DA games.

 

I still intend to get the game sometime in the next month ot two. I haven't been following closely at all, so I know nothing about the Gray Wardens or Redcliffe. I am surprised about the Drunkistair revelation-I thought that cameo in DA2 meant Eamon would be returning him to the throne.

[Sifr]

I've imported three saves* so far, and Alistair was king in none of them. As far as I can tell, he's still nobody of consequence in the Drunkistair save, and dead in the Sacrifice Alistair save. And he certainly wasn't king in the save where I gave him absolutely the ending he wanted by not doing anything to interfere with his Warden career. (As a side note, have you played Inquisition? Or read anything about the bits of the plot that concern the Grey Wardens or Redcliffe?)

 

* Well, okay not really, but I did my utmost to make my Keep states match what I would have imported.

 

If you import the worldstate where Alistair was exiled and became a wandering drunk, he's still a Warden in DAI. The explanation is apparently that at some point, Alistair sobered up and rejoined the Wardens after his appearance in DA2.

[GoldenGail3]

I haven't played Inquisition yet, though I did previously order a copy from Amazon. i returned it when i realized it wouldn't be able to register it. Registration is a big deal for me when it comes to DA games.
 
I still intend to get the game sometime in the next month ot two. I haven't been following closely at all, so I know nothing about the Gray Wardens or Redcliffe. I am surprised about the Drunkistair revelation-I thought that cameo in DA2 meant Eamon would be returning him to the throne.

I suggest you get some popcorn while playing DAI;it's not the best game out there...

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

If you import the worldstate where Alistair was exiled and became a wandering drunk, he's still a Warden in DAI. The explanation is apparently that at some point, Alistair sobered up and rejoined the Wardens after his appearance in DA2.

If and only if Loghain does the US, I assume, since I saw Loghain but not Alistair. But either way, that's not him being king.

 

 

I haven't played Inquisition yet, though I did previously order a copy from Amazon. i returned it when i realized it wouldn't be able to register it. Registration is a big deal for me when it comes to DA games.

 

I still intend to get the game sometime in the next month ot two. I haven't been following closely at all, so I know nothing about the Gray Wardens or Redcliffe. I am surprised about the Drunkistair revelation-I thought that cameo in DA2 meant Eamon would be returning him to the throne.

Since you want to play and haven't (and by some miracle have dodged spoilers) I'll be nonspecific, but you meet whoever you chose to rule Ferelden (Anora, Alistair, or both, though not the Warden even if the Warden is on the throne with either) in Redcliffe if you side with the mages. You also have War Table missions where you do favors for the Crown of Ferelden even if you don't. You also have a Warden ally for some of the game who can be Alistair (if he's still a Warden) Loghain (if he's still alive) or Stroud (if neither is still serving as a Warden.)

 

As for putting Alistair on the throne, I didn't necessarily expect any attempt at doing that to succeed, since Anora presiding over the end of the Blight would mean that she's got public approval that would be hard to get rid of. Though until Inquisition proved that wasn't the case I thought Teagan retrieving Alistair might be a hint that the Guerrins were behind a revolt borrowing his name that happens during the epilogue of Origins, and that it really did use Alistair.

[Sifr]

If and only if Loghain does the US, I assume, since I saw Loghain but not Alistair. But either way, that's not him being king.

 

If I was to hazard a guess. I suspect the in-universe explanation for why a Warden Loghain overrides a Warden Alistair, is probably as simple as Alistair refusing to serve in the same country as Loghain. And Clarel not wanting to have their meetings devolve into Thunderdome whenever the two of them happen to be placed in the same room as each other.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

If you import the worldstate where Alistair was exiled and became a wandering drunk, he's still a Warden in DAI. The explanation is apparently that at some point, Alistair sobered up and rejoined the Wardens after his appearance in DA2.

The Keep doesn't acknowledge that Alistair met with the Inqusitior in a worldstate where he became a drunk and Loghain died, and the wiki doesn't mention it. If you encountered this personally, I can only assume it was a glitch.