271 réponses à ce sujet

[Kenshen]

Hate is to strong for me but dislike a lot then yes.

[WarriorOfLight999]

I don't trust him.

 

In the rebellion to liberate Ferelden, where was he? The Free Marches. He should have been home, helping his sister Rowan, but he wasn't. He also married an Orlesian. Remember that marriages are not 21st century bonds of love in a medieval setting: they are alliances.

 

His raising of Alistair in a stable was utterly cruel, to both Alistair and Maric, who trusted him. It would have been the easiest thing to give Alistair a room in the very large Castle Redcliffe. Illegitimate children of nobles and knights are at least squired off, and this was the son of a King.

 

Eamon shows some misogyny when you speak of Anora. I don't particularly like Anora either, but its another strike against him.

 

There's also the fact that Eamon wanted Cailan to set aside Anora, and marry Celene. That would simply be disastrous. When the Landsmeet is done, Eamon immediately gives word to Celene to send her troops over.

 

Finally, after years of abuse and neglect, Eamon wants Alistair to take the throne, the one thing he had been told his entire life not to do. If Alistair is to be executed, Eamon does not object. It seems to me that for Eamon, Alistair was merely a means to an end, and since the Landsmeet ruled against him, Alistair is now expendable.

 

I see exactly why Loghain had him poisoned, and do not fault him for it. Eamon is a traitor who respects no one, not even his sister, who gave up everything to see Ferelden free.

[theskymoves]

I don't trust him.
 
In the rebellion to liberate Ferelden, where was he? The Free Marches. He should have been home, helping his sister Rowan, but he wasn't. He also married an Orlesian. Remember that marriages are not 21st century bonds of love in a medieval setting: they are alliances.

 

 

He was in the Free Marches because he was a child who had been sent there by his father. (Like... 12 or 14 years old, IIRC.)

 

And I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't like Eamon and I'm not one to defend him... but IMO, criticizing him for not participating in the rebellion is uncalled for.

[WarriorOfLight999]

And yet his father died in the Battle of West Hill. I'd think that's a good time to come back and check out what's going on. Sent over or not, his family is in danger. Teagan could have stayed behind, and Redcliffe could still have a Guerrin to rule it should the worst have come to pass.

 

Keep your tone respectful, by the way.

 

Edit: On his age, there are many discrepancies between the game and the books. Eamon is shown to have graying hair in Origins, even though he's supposed to be younger than Loghain. I'm not so confident that Eamon was only 12 or 14 by the time of West Hill.

[dekarserverbot]

I expected the fact that if Pokemon equals pocket monsters Eamon equals Electronic Arts Money. So Eamon name implies you to give money to EA...

But found that the real reason we are discussing is his Bhelenish attitude

[TEWR]

The game tries to make it so that Eamon is this oh so noble figure, this good guy. While the appearance he has does give off that vibe and it makes him all the more interesting considering his hidden nature, the underlying character of Eamon -- an ambitious noble who wants power and will play the field if he can -- is often lost on many because the nature of DAO caters far too much to a player's power fantasy without keeping them in check and calling them out enough. As a result, they think they're always in the right, every choice they make is good.

 

My DN didn't care for Eamon, but he respected him. As a political figure he was impressive (as far as Ferelden goes anyway) but he was a horrible person.

 

The only reason my DN went to Eamon was because Eamon was a useful political tool for my DN's own ambitions. In the end, Eamon was played.

 

I think disliking him for Alistair's sake is misguided. If Alistair says Eamon is a good man and was good to him, then who are we to argue? Sleeping in the stables notwithstanding.

 

But I have seen plenty of Eamon hatred on here for the way he handles Alistair after we meet him. 

 

It's not unheard of for people who were abused to often think good things of their abusers.

 

Doesn't mean they're actually good people.

[sylvanaerie]

And yet his father died in the Battle of West Hill. I'd think that's a good time to come back and check out what's going on. Sent over or not, his family is in danger. Teagan could have stayed behind, and Redcliffe could still have a Guerrin to rule it should the worst have come to pass.

 

Keep your tone respectful, by the way.

 

Edit: On his age, there are many discrepancies between the game and the books. Eamon is shown to have graying hair in Origins, even though he's supposed to be younger than Loghain. I'm not so confident that Eamon was only 12 or 14 by the time of West Hill.

 

Toolset sets him at 45, which is 5 years younger than Loghain's age.  Since Loghain is approximately 18 during the Ferelden war for independence, that would put Eamon at approximately 13 or so.  I am unsure how long the events of the book cover (how many years) but yes, he was still a kid for most of it.

 

I'm presuming the whole poisoning and demonic influence aged his features prematurely.  Also, genetics vary from person to person, so perhaps that contributed as well to his looking older than he should.

[theskymoves]

Toolset sets him at 45, which is 5 years younger than Loghain's age.  Since Loghain is approximately 18 during the Ferelden war for independence, that would put Eamon at approximately 13 or so.  I am unsure how long the events of the book cover (how many years) but yes, he was still a kid for most of it.

 

I'm presuming the whole poisoning and demonic influence aged his features prematurely.  Also, genetics vary from person to person, so perhaps that contributed as well to his looking older than he should.

 

*cracks knuckles and pages through The Stolen Throne because I know it's in here somewhere*

 

Ah, yes! Here it is... page 259, of the print edition. Following the rebellion force's defeat at the Battle of West Hill (8:99 Blessed, per the time line in The World of Thedas), Maric learns from Rowan that her father was killed.

 

Spoiler

Maric stared at her, stunned. "No... oh, Rowan! What about your family?"

 

Rowan thought of her two younger brothers, Eamon and Teagan, still with cousins in the Free Marches. She hadn't even considered how they might be handling the news. Eamon would be fifteen now, Teagan only eight. They were still just boys.

 

If Eamon is 15 in 8:99 Blessed, that makes his age in 9:30 Dragon... 44? 45? (I can never get a handle on the Thedan calendar and just what happens to that extra not-zero-not-100 year.) So this is one of the rare instances when the toolset age is pretty accurate. (And thank you for pointing that out, sylvanaerie.  )

 

The timeline puts the assassination of Queen Moira in 8:96 Blessed , so the events of TST occur over a period of several years.

[Cousland27]

Yeah, I never liked Arl Eamon or his wife.  Which is why I made my character Chancellor and a weak Alistair King.  So that I can be the one who pulls the strings.  

[Kenshen]

 

Edit: On his age, there are many discrepancies between the game and the books. Eamon is shown to have graying hair in Origins, even though he's supposed to be younger than Loghain. I'm not so confident that Eamon was only 12 or 14 by the time of West Hill.

 

Hair turning grey is not just a sign of old age. I went to high school with a guy who was probably 75% grey by the time we graduated.  Then there was someone like my grandfather who died at the age 68 with a full head of dark hair.  

[WarriorOfLight999]

All poignant observations, I simply wasn't very confident with the toolset or the book by themselves, because sometimes they conflict. In this case, it would seem they do not. Thank you Sylvan and Sky for showing the facts, respectfully so.

[Riven326]

Arl Eamon is a good man who is only human and made mistakes in raising Alistair.

[dragonflight288]

On my first playthrough, I really liked him.

 

Now, now I'm not so sure. I mean, in feudal societies, Alistair is actually far luckier than most orphans. Sure, Eamon was sent the King's illegitimate child to raise, but I think people are really missing a big point here.

 

Maric never acknowledged Alistair. This was done to keep Cailan's claim to the throne secure. 

 

As such, Eamon was one of the only people to know of Alistair, and if his job was not to raise the King's son, but to keep King's son from wanting the throne and keeping him out of the way of Cailan's ascending to it, Eamon was far more generous than a noble of such a time period would be. Alistair had a place to sleep, food, shelter, clothes, and Eamon did nothing about the rumors pegging Alistair as his son, until Isolde threw a fit over it. 

 

And when Alistair was sent to the Chantry, he again had food, clothes and shelter. He is very lucky compared to what most orphans would have faced. 

 

However, I don't care at all that even though Alistair is to be kept away from the line of succession, he is still denied all choice on what he wants to be or where he wants to be, until Duncan conscripts him. 

 

Also, some of Eamon's lines have made me very cautious. Like when he's describing why Alistar would be a good king, finishing with "If that training fails him, he knows who to turn to for aid." Everyone knows that Eamon is Alistair's first choice unless the Warden becomes Chancellor or marries him if a female Cousland. 

 

Eamon seems to be popular among the common people, and doesn't abuse them or take advantage of them, so that sets him above many nobles already. But he is very quick to push for Alistair taking the throne. I can at least buy his reasons. If we want to oppose Loghain, it means putting someone with a stronger claim to the throne than Anora has, which is a tall order since she married the late king and already is the queen, and that means Alistair. 

 

I really hate Isolde though. She showed absolutely no care for the lives lost in Redcliff so long as she could keep her son alive and out of the Circle, any sacrifice was acceptable. And she was the one pushing the harsh treatment of Alistair. 

[GodBrandon]

Eamon was cool, but Ysolde was whiney af. Someone should of just back handed her

[KatDancer]

Dislike him intensely.  One would think that if Maric asked his brother-in-law to raise his illegitimate son, he at least would have expected him to be treated like a ward -- otherwise he could have slung him into a Chantry orphanage himself.

 

He's made into a servant, living in the stables and sleeping with the dogs until Isolde's dislike transcends "making sure the castle was not a home" and he's slung into the chantry to become a Templar -- and as far as they know, eventually addicted to lyrium.  Alistair is not given the option to leave and he is only allowed once conscripted.  He tells you on the way to Redcliffe that it was made VERY clear to him that he was a commoner, in no way an heir to the throne -- so he knew basically that he was an embarassment and that his treatment was pretty coldly planned out.  After all, Duncan was the only one who cared what Alistair wanted.

 

The moment Eamon wakes, he tries to force Alistair against his will to take the throne -- with Eamon as his top advisor. 

 

Yeah, I dislike him.  I dislike him more than Isolde; he allowed her to treat Alistair like crap.  And his affections for Orlais are traitorous.  He married an Orlesian right after the occupation which "caused problems" with Maric -- I'll bet it did!  And we find out he was trying to get Cailan to set Anora aside for Celene.  For CELENE?  His father DIED to get Orlais out of Ferelden and for political power he is willing to hand his brainless nephew and the country to Orlais!

 

Yeah, put me in the 'he's a complete *******, gives a **** about no one but himself and making himself indispensable to whomever is in power' group..

[WarriorOfLight999]

Good to see you here, Kat! Read some of your stories.

 

Indeed! My sentiments exactly. In fact, I find his marriage to Isolde not only traitorous, but a complete insult to Rowan as well, who sacrificed love and happiness for the good of Ferelden. It's amazing how different Teagan and Eamon truly are from eachother.

 

Yes, Alistair should have been treated better, or handed over to the Couslands. I'm certain Bryce and Eleanor would not have been so callous and cruel to a son of Maric. What's more, if Anora/Loghain win the Landsmeet and Alistair is exiled/executed, Eamon doesn't say/do much to change the situation. For all that Alistair talks of Eamons' quality, I suspect that the young man simply ceased to be of use to him. Until Teagan shows up in Kirkwall, that is.....

 

Eamons' intentions are completely suspect. As much as I dislike Loghain, he had the right idea of getting rid of Eamon. A shame he simply didn't hire the Crows.

[Kenshen]

Well to be fair if Alistair is exiled it means the Landsmeet has made a decision and everyone has to live with it so to speak.  What can Eamon really do at that point or most likely face the same fate if he objects.  I never understood the executed one not even sure if I have ever had that outcome but he is one of 3-4 grey wardens and they play an important part in ending the blight.  Would be stupid to kill him before the final battle.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Yeah, I dislike him.  I dislike him more than Isolde; he allowed her to treat Alistair like crap.  And his affections for Orlais are traitorous.  He married an Orlesian right after the occupation which "caused problems" with Maric -- I'll bet it did!  And we find out he was trying to get Cailan to set Anora aside for Celene.  For CELENE?  His father DIED to get Orlais out of Ferelden and for political power he is willing to hand his brainless nephew and the country to Orlais!

While I agree that what Cailan was planning was foolish, we never find out for sure whether or not Eamon was on board with the specific marriage Cailan had in mind. All we know is that Eamon wanted Cailan to enter another, since he didn't believe Cailan's current one was doing what it needed to.* (If he was, you are of course correct in your assessment of Eamon's behavior in this.) And while I find what he allowed Isolde to do upsetting, marrying her wasn't in and of itself treasonous.

 

* Yes, I am aware that there's every chance that Cailan was the infertile one in the marriage.

[TEWR]

Well to be fair if Alistair is exiled it means the Landsmeet has made a decision and everyone has to live with it so to speak.  What can Eamon really do at that point or most likely face the same fate if he objects.  I never understood the executed one not even sure if I have ever had that outcome but he is one of 3-4 grey wardens and they play an important part in ending the blight.  Would be stupid to kill him before the final battle.

 

Execution only comes up if Alistair renounces his Wardenhood because Loghain was spared and he isn't going to marry Anora. At that point, Alistair's making it very clear that he's putting his own desires for vengeance above that of the priority at hand -- the Blight -- because he falsely believes it's what Duncan would've wanted (to kill Loghain that is). Duncan, the man who said to a Human Noble Warden that a Grey Warden's duties are more important then vengeance.

 

Anora seeks to have him executed not because she wants to, but more because if she doesn't Alistair's name can and will be used as a rallying cry by her opposition who want either a puppet for their own goals or a Theirin heir on the throne. If Alistair doesn't renounce his claim to the throne (which he only does if he's still a Warden and he does so gladly) it's dangerous to let him just go.

 

So it's not like he's really even an option for the Blight anymore. He's not a part of the forces. He quit.

 

Dislike him intensely.  One would think that if Maric asked his brother-in-law to raise his illegitimate son, he at least would have expected him to be treated like a ward -- otherwise he could have slung him into a Chantry orphanage himself.

 

He's made into a servant, living in the stables and sleeping with the dogs until Isolde's dislike transcends "making sure the castle was not a home" and he's slung into the chantry to become a Templar -- and as far as they know, eventually addicted to lyrium.  Alistair is not given the option to leave and he is only allowed once conscripted.  He tells you on the way to Redcliffe that it was made VERY clear to him that he was a commoner, in no way an heir to the throne -- so he knew basically that he was an embarassment and that his treatment was pretty coldly planned out.  After all, Duncan was the only one who cared what Alistair wanted.

 

The moment Eamon wakes, he tries to force Alistair against his will to take the throne -- with Eamon as his top advisor. 

 

Yeah, I dislike him.  I dislike him more than Isolde; he allowed her to treat Alistair like crap.  And his affections for Orlais are traitorous.  He married an Orlesian right after the occupation which "caused problems" with Maric -- I'll bet it did!  And we find out he was trying to get Cailan to set Anora aside for Celene.  For CELENE?  His father DIED to get Orlais out of Ferelden and for political power he is willing to hand his brainless nephew and the country to Orlais!

 

Yeah, put me in the 'he's a complete *******, gives a **** about no one but himself and making himself indispensable to whomever is in power' group..

 

Actually, Eamon only urged Cailan to drop Anora for another woman (because he perceives Anora as barren, when Anora will tell you Cailan had his mistresses on the side, though you never hear of a bastard heir of his which raises questions about his fertility). It's never even outright stated Cailan was on board with marrying Celene in the game. It's only implied. Originally Gaider had planned for that to be part of the base game, but the idea was scrapped and eventually revisited sort-of in RtO.

 

General aside not aimed at you, but basically because it applies to Eamon: Loghain had every reason in the world to doubt Eamon and where he'd stand (along with where Alistair would lean). Traditionalist asshat who married an Orlesian woman and put a Theirin in an organization with close ties to the Empire, where said Theirin eventually wound up in an organization exiled from Ferelden for rebelling against the crown amongst other things and is primarily composed of Orlesian Wardens. To say nothing of fears that Eamon would be too blinded by his familial relation to Cailan to think things through (which is true)

[Aren]

I was sorry to waste the ashes of Andraste to save the life of this manipulator, Eamon is a master manipulator many players do not even realize his duplicity.

[TEWR]

I was sorry to waste the ashes of Andraste to save the life of this manipulator, Eamon is a master manipulator many players do not even realize his duplicity.

 

I take solace in the fact that my Aeducan manipulated Eamon more then Eamon manipulated him.

[Xetykins]

I am indifferent to him. Aside from being a hard headed loyalist, never in the game suggests that he has designs for making Alistair a puppet. Its just all speculations. Though my gut tells me otherwise.

[TEWR]

I am indifferent to him. Aside from being a hard headed loyalist, never in the game suggests that he has designs for making Alistair a puppet. Its just all speculations. Though my gut tells me otherwise.

 

It's not all speculation. He's actually very easy to read if you examine his dialogue and it's clear he wants to be the advisor to the throne (saying to Alistair that he "knows who to turn to for advice").

[Xetykins]

It's not all speculation. He's actually very easy to read if you examine his dialogue and it's clear he wants to be the advisor to the throne (saying to Alistair that he "knows who to turn to for advice").

Well, who else would Alistair turn to for advice tho? If Bryce was alive, he would have been a better candidate. As it is, he's the only one left who seems to be savy, powerful and respected. And he knows Alistair. But as i said my gut tells me otherwise. I just dont see hard evidence to support it.