Well, who else would Alistair turn to for advice tho? If Bryce was alive, he would have been a better candidate. As it is, he's the only one left who seems to be savy, powerful and respected. And he knows Alistair. But as i said my gut tells me otherwise. I just dont see hard evidence to support it.
Could turn to Barkspawn.
Barkspawn never lies. 
I was prepared to jump in and say "How can anyone hate Eamon" but then reading everyones posts I can see why now. He never even bothered to tell his wife that Alistair was not his bastard
Could turn to Barkspawn.
Barkspawn never lies.
I hated him from my second playthrough.
My first playthrough was seeing everyone in the way I was supposed to for a first playthrough but my second playthrough was more looking deeper.
Eamon and Maric are the top two of crappy dads and it made it worse. Loghain came off as more sympathetic to me.
Did Maric really think Eamon would actually look after Alistair? Maric would have been far better off sending Alistair to a family that doesn't have children so he would have been treated like a child should have been treated.
And I don't give a damn about Eamon or Isolde. Both of them allowed a child to live in the stables. Alistair himself says he was locked in a cage for a day. I'm sorry - what kind of people not realise they had not seen a child for nearly a day?
Then Alistair was sent to the Chantry which in return caused him to be conscripted by the Duncan.
I truly do not like Eamon for his attitude toward Anora (who is awesome in her own way) and of Alistair. I had noticed that whenever Eamon announces that Alistair will be King - Alistair protests and Eamon scolds him like he is a child for not standing up for his duties and I actually have the urge to wish that I could mash a button and slap Eamon.
Of course Alistair is going to protest over being the King - He was taught all his freaking life that he was not going to become a King, that he was never going to get anywhere near the the Throne! What the hell did that old man expect Alistair to do? Jump for joy that he was going to get his hands on the Throne?
The funny thing is - I always ask Alistair (away from Eamon) what does he think. He admits to my warden that he does think he would make a good King (especially if hardened) which is why I find it funny when people protest that Alistair doesn't want to become King.
He only protests when people assume he will take the throne without asking him. By asking him - you are listening to what he think.
If I had my way - I would have gladly left Eamon and Isolde to rot in a nearby ditch, gave Connor lots of cuddles, assuring him that he was going to be fine, gave Teagan the Job of being the Arl since he proved to be the more decent sort and allowed Alistair to choose his path for himself.
Unfortunately game requires me to save Eamon's ass. Who cares he is the late King's mother's brother. He clearly has no respect for women if Anora is not suitable to rule and this makes me question what would have happened if Rowan had not died at the time Maric had disappeared? Would he have pushed to get his own sister off the Throne and make Calian the King as soon as possible?
I understand that Maric wanted to keep Alistair safe - as supporting Fiona's wishes but holy - could he have not found a family that would have not lead to this whole bloody situation? I find it really ironic that by sending Alistair to Eamon, he has directly put his son in front of the bloody throne.
Plus it doesn't help that I feel slimy whenever I come across Eamon. I don't know what it is but I get this way more with my female wardens that I do with my male wardens *shudders*
So Alistair is either King with Queen Cousland or my wardens (if they survive FB) as his Chancellors or He dies in the FB or he stays as a Grey Warden while Anora gets the throne. (And Eamon can stay in his old home, far away from Alistair as possible)
And the most ironic thing is - Alistair is actually safer as a King in Inquisition *sighs*
I think when Maric gave Alistair to Eamon he was still not married and was childless. I could be wrong. And I think at one point he did look after Alistair til Isolde the witch came. Still does not absolve Eamon for being so under the skirt and letting things happen.I hated him from my second playthrough.
My first playthrough was seeing everyone in the way I was supposed to for a first playthrough but my second playthrough was more looking deeper.
Eamon and Maric are the top two of crappy dads and it made it worse. Loghain came off as more sympathetic to me.
Did Maric really think Eamon would actually look after Alistair? Maric would have been far better off sending Alistair to a family that doesn't have children so he would have been treated like a child [/s]
I hated him from my second playthrough.
My first playthrough was seeing everyone in the way I was supposed to for a first playthrough but my second playthrough was more looking deeper.
Eamon and Maric are the top two of crappy dads and it made it worse. Loghain came off as more sympathetic to me.
Did Maric really think Eamon would actually look after Alistair? Maric would have been far better off sending Alistair to a family that doesn't have children so he would have been treated like a child should have been treated.
And I don't give a damn about Eamon or Isolde. Both of them allowed a child to live in the stables. Alistair himself says he was locked in a cage for a day. I'm sorry - what kind of people not realise they had not seen a child for nearly a day?
Then Alistair was sent to the Chantry which in return caused him to be conscripted by the Duncan.
I truly do not like Eamon for his attitude toward Anora (who is awesome in her own way) and of Alistair. I had noticed that whenever Eamon announces that Alistair will be King - Alistair protests and Eamon scolds him like he is a child for not standing up for his duties and I actually have the urge to wish that I could mash a button and slap Eamon.
Of course Alistair is going to protest over being the King - He was taught all his freaking life that he was not going to become a King, that he was never going to get anywhere near the the Throne! What the hell did that old man expect Alistair to do? Jump for joy that he was going to get his hands on the Throne?
The funny thing is - I always ask Alistair (away from Eamon) what does he think. He admits to my warden that he does think he would make a good King (especially if hardened) which is why I find it funny when people protest that Alistair doesn't want to become King.
He only protests when people assume he will take the throne without asking him. By asking him - you are listening to what he think.
If I had my way - I would have gladly left Eamon and Isolde to rot in a nearby ditch, gave Connor lots of cuddles, assuring him that he was going to be fine, gave Teagan the Job of being the Arl since he proved to be the more decent sort and allowed Alistair to choose his path for himself.
Unfortunately game requires me to save Eamon's ass. Who cares he is the late King's mother's brother. He clearly has no respect for women if Anora is not suitable to rule and this makes me question what would have happened if Rowan had not died at the time Maric had disappeared? Would he have pushed to get his own sister off the Throne and make Calian the King as soon as possible?
I understand that Maric wanted to keep Alistair safe - as supporting Fiona's wishes but holy - could he have not found a family that would have not lead to this whole bloody situation? I find it really ironic that by sending Alistair to Eamon, he has directly put his son in front of the bloody throne.
Plus it doesn't help that I feel slimy whenever I come across Eamon. I don't know what it is but I get this way more with my female wardens that I do with my male wardens *shudders*
So Alistair is either King with Queen Cousland or my wardens (if they survive FB) as his Chancellors or He dies in the FB or he stays as a Grey Warden while Anora gets the throne. (And Eamon can stay in his old home, far away from Alistair as possible)
And the most ironic thing is - Alistair is actually safer as a King in Inquisition *sighs*
DAO is a complex game, IN my 1st playthrough i made a lot of Bad decisions (Put my trust on Arle Eamon, Harrowant, Alistair unhardened as sole king, seen Duncan as a good figure ecc.. and an Ultimate sacrifice) 2nd playthrough i had put more attention on all the characters (Eamon back to redclieffe,Bhelen on the throne, Anora&HNM on the throne, Loghain redemption)
Well, who else would Alistair turn to for advice tho? If Bryce was alive, he would have been a better candidate. As it is, he's the only one left who seems to be savy, powerful and respected. And he knows Alistair. But as i said my gut tells me otherwise. I just dont see hard evidence to support it.
The only other person he'll turn to is a Warden he is good friends with and asks to serve the crown. And unhardened Alistair pretty much leaves the running of the kingdom to Anora if married or to his chancellor while he shirks his duties whenever possible.
A hardened Alistair actually tries to learn statecraft, to the surprise of everyone.
The only other person he'll turn to is a Warden he is good friends with and asks to serve the crown. And unhardened Alistair pretty much leaves the running of the kingdom to Anora if married or to his chancellor while he shirks his duties whenever possible.
A hardened Alistair actually tries to learn statecraft, to the surprise of everyone.
Shouldn't you be angry at Maric? He seemed to be quite the ******* letting his son live in those conditions
A Cousland I can understand and maybe a dwarf noble, but the rest of the Origins though? Its madness
That's exactly the issue. Alistair doesn't have political know-how, nor does he have the connections to find someone to help him. He'll stick with the people he knows.
And that's why he can easily be made a puppet-king by Eamon if our Warden chooses not to get involved, by either marrying him as a female Cousland or doesn't become the chancellor and if Alistair isn't hardened.
The implications of Eamon's intentions are there in the his dialogue. Anora even outright says that Alistair wouldn't go to anyone else and pretty much everyone knew it, and a sole ruler Alistair appoints Eamon to be his steward while he's fighting the blight, and Eamon quite happily takes that role.
It's hard for me to actively hate Arl Eamon, largely because he seems so much a product of his upbringing and his time. He's not the most appealing character, but he's probably no worse than Bryce Cousland or Urien Kendells would be.
Having said that, however, I can certainly see why someone would hate him. He did treat Alistair badly, he does come off as being somewhat arrogant and entitled, and it's hard to imagine him putting Alistair forward as candidate for the throne without having some ulterior motive.
A Cousland I can understand and maybe a dwarf noble, but the rest of the Origins though? Its madness
Modifié par springacres, 06 février 2015 - 02:07 .
It's hard for me to actively hate Arl Eamon, largely because he seems so much a product of his upbringing and his time. He's not the most appealing character, but he's probably no worse than Bryce Cousland or Urien Kendells would be.
Having said that, however, I can certainly see why someone would hate him. He did treat Alistair badly, he does come off as being somewhat arrogant and entitled, and it's hard to imagine him putting Alistair forward as candidate for the throne without having some ulterior motive.
THIS.
King Alistair: I want you as chancellor and general, oh, and as Warden-Commander of Ferelden you're now in charge of the Arling of Amaranthine.
My elf mage Warden: Alistair, I know I'm your friend and you trust me, but... are you sure you're feeling all right? You want to put an elvhen mage as overlord over human nobles whose families have held their lands for generations?
It's hard for me to actively hate Arl Eamon, largely because he seems so much a product of his upbringing and his time. He's not the most appealing character, but he's probably no worse than Bryce Cousland or Urien Kendells would be.
Having said that, however, I can certainly see why someone would hate him. He did treat Alistair badly, he does come off as being somewhat arrogant and entitled, and it's hard to imagine him putting Alistair forward as candidate for the throne without having some ulterior motive.
THIS.King Alistair: I want you as chancellor and general, oh, and as Warden-Commander of Ferelden you're now in charge of the Arling of Amaranthine.My elf mage Warden: Alistair, I know I'm your friend and you trust me, but... are you sure you're feeling all right? You want to put an elvhen mage as overlord over human nobles whose families have held their lands for generations?
Well said! The only part I am - not completely disagree but can add something is about "understand hatred because of treating Alistair badly". The only "bad" part here is not thinking about possibility to ever use Alistair as a heir to the throne. Shortsighted to say the least. Still, even that can be explained by honoring the wish of his king. But treating Alistair-baby poorly? That you can say only from very modern point of view. Alistair was not made a stable-boy or any kind of servant. He knew about his father, he was allowed to call Eamon "uncle" and see him as a relative, he was not thrown out on the street or forgotten - he was sent to templars, a highly regarding order of warriors. And even there Eamon visited him (!). So what if Alistair slept sometimes in the stables? Big deal for that historical time! Alistair never knew hunger, he was dressed, he was taken care of. And about Eamon's putting up with Izold's wishes - yes, he did, he loved her, for god sake, so much loved that married despite all negativity it brought upon him.
With historical period taking into account - no, not only I am not hating him myself, I can not understand other's hatred.
One of the biggest reasons I can think of why Eamon wouldn't have put Alistair's name forward earlier was because Cailan was alive and Maric never acknowledged Alistair as his son.
At the Landsmeet, we're pushing him forward as king without proof that he actually does have a stronger claim to the throne than Anora, who married the late-king and Alistair's half-brother.
There was no possibility to push him forward previous because they had no proof, and after Eamon was cured, not supporting Alistair meant supporting Anora, and by default, Loghain. But I do think Eamon was also planning on using it as a way to get some measure of influence over the throne that would be impossible without Alistair being the king.
Now, on a slightly different note, we can ask Loghain if he joins our party why Maric never acknowledged Alistair as his son. Loghain tells us that Maric very nearly did, but didn't out of respect for Queen Rowan's memory.
I take solace in the fact that my Aeducan manipulated Eamon more then Eamon manipulated him.
The best part is during the night at Redclieffe, if you made Anora queen, or Cousland Prince/King with Anora when you talk to him and look at his expression, that face is priceless.
I liked Eamon at first because I had little reason not to - he was helping me out, Alistair vouched for him, was supposedly well respected.
I really don't like him now for the reasons most people have mentioned above. His treatment of Alistair was pretty awful - like, I know it's partially an extension of his conservative character, and that there's protocols with dealing with acknolwedged and unacknowledged bastards, but honestly, if he was going to treat him like a servant or a commoner, why not give him away to a childless couple in Redcliffe? If the intention for an unacknowledged bastard son is for them to be nonexistant, then give them away to a remote farmer's family who owe you a favour, don't tell them anything about the truth, and make sure he never surfaces again. No awkward involvement with politics, no problems. Under that position at least Alistair would have a stable authority figure - father or mother or aunt or whatever - to guide him: given the idealistic view he attaches to Duncan (and to a lesser extent, Eamon), his upbringing was likely very aimless and improvised before the chantry.
The fact that he doesn't give Alistair away suggests to me that his unacknowledged bastard status still had some political value - which, given Maric's lack of family, and Eamon's genuine belief in Theirin bloodline, would make an awful lot of sense. Eamon seems to take a rather practical, occasionally cold approach to politics - he wants to preserve what he considers valuable, and if that involves crowning a kid he abadoned or pushing Cailan to re-marry, then he'll do it. So I think Alistair's upbringing is this awkward half-way between where he *can't* just dump the child - he's not just any noble bastard, but a royal bastard, after all - because that would involve dumping some potentially crucial political power. But he can't acknowledge Alistair as his own. So Alistair grows up knowing he's unwanted, which by itself is awful, but I think Eamon's in this difficult position of not particularly wanting this child, and not being able to acknolwedge him for decorum's sake, but having to keep him close. Hence the stables, hence the cold, but also hence his friendliness with Teagan and other knights in Redcliffe.
Part of me questions how much of this is based on his loyalty to the Theirn bloodline and his conservativism though - his marriage to Isolde (who wasn't the brightest, yes, but still could be some Orlesian plot), alongside his encouragement of Cailan's marriage to Celene, suggest some different political motivating factors at play. Which mean his push for Alistair to take the throne becomes a potential threat to Ferelden's independence. And so I'm *very* suspicious of him. I think there's some guilt there - explaining the actions at the Chantry - but also potentially that, along with the fixed locket, could be a manipulative ploy to get Alistair onside rather than genuine concern for him. He's definitely puppeteering Alistair, I think, given how quickly he pushes him to be on the throne when he realises Alistair is of use, and so I'm not exactly inclined to love him - but the question is, for what cause? Conservativsm or Orlais?
I'd agree that Maric was also an awful dad - if he wanted his kid to have an normal life, why give his child to Eamon? why not give his child to a commoner? This is the question of abandoment notwithstanding, although I don't imagine being an acknowledged bastard would exactly be fun and games (think: King Lear). And given how badly he was screwing up with Cailan, being incredibly absent/withdrawn (also given how naive Cailan, the king of Ferelden, was, speaks volumes), I can forgive him for not wanting to bring up another child too. More than anything I question his godawful choice of adoptive parents, though.
Guest_AedanStarfang_*
I hate Isolde more;
"CONNOR WAH WAH WAH"
shut up you cow.
I don't really hate Eamon, but I must admit that I don't consider him as benevolent as I had thought of him in my first couple of playthroughs. On the one hand, there's everything else that has already been pointed out in different posts (the dogs, immediately pushing Alistair for the throne given the chance, pushing Cailan to find another woman etc). On the other, Alistair points out that it wasn't so much Eamon who mistreated him as it was Isolde - 'She despised me'. Kind of implies that most of the mistreatment was instigated by her and Eamon didn't want to anger her further -defending Alistair would only mean in people's eyes that he's verifying the rumours that Alistair was his son. True, it raises the question why he didn't try to explain to Isolde how the situation really stood, but I suppose he wanted to keep their potential bargaining chip as secret as possible.
As it is, I'd rather ally with a guy who's actually helping my cause in spite of what he's done in the past rather with someone who's put a bounty on my head in the present.
The only other person he'll turn to is a Warden he is good friends with and asks to serve the crown. And unhardened Alistair pretty much leaves the running of the kingdom to Anora if married or to his chancellor while he shirks his duties whenever possible.
A hardened Alistair actually tries to learn statecraft, to the surprise of everyone.
This. Personally, I didn't use to harden Alistair, but now I'm all for it. It seems that, intentionally or not, everyone's behaviour (Maric's, Eamon's, Isolde's etc) projected to Alistair the fact that he wasn't good enough, causing him serious confidence issues and to constantly sell himself short - this is evident when, even though he's the senior Warden, he lets you take the reins of the situation. Your Warden is a bit harsh - 'Everyone is out for themselves, Alistair. You should know that' - but it also tells Alistair that the fact that he was always pushed around wasn't through any fault of his own and that he shouldn't be afraid to stand up for himself and his opinions. And it works. 
(Although I'm also guilty to admit that my Female Cousland never hardens him... 
)
I don't really hate Eamon, but I must admit that I don't consider him as benevolent as I had thought of him in my first couple of playthroughs. On the one hand, there's everything else that has already been pointed out in different posts (the dogs, immediately pushing Alistair for the throne given the chance, pushing Cailan to find another woman etc). On the other, Alistair points out that it wasn't so much Eamon who mistreated him as it was Isolde - 'She despised me'. Kind of implies that most of the mistreatment was instigated by her and Eamon didn't want to anger her further -defending Alistair would only mean in people's eyes that he's verifying the rumours that Alistair was his son. True, it raises the question why he didn't try to explain to Isolde how the situation really stood, but I suppose he wanted to keep their potential bargaining chip as secret as possible.
As it is, I'd rather ally with a guy who's actually helping my cause in spite of what he's done in the past rather with someone who's put a bounty on my head in the present.
This. Personally, I didn't use to harden Alistair, but now I'm all for it. It seems that, intentionally or not, everyone's behaviour (Maric's, Eamon's, Isolde's etc) projected to Alistair the fact that he wasn't good enough, causing him serious confidence issues and to constantly sell himself short - this is evident when, even though he's the senior Warden, he lets you take the reins of the situation. Your Warden is a bit harsh - 'Everyone is out for themselves, Alistair. You should know that' - but it also tells Alistair that the fact that he was always pushed around wasn't through any fault of his own and that he shouldn't be afraid to stand up for himself and his opinions. And it works.
(Although I'm also guilty to admit that my Female Cousland never hardens him...
It's a line many dislike and one reason I like Cmess's mod IRS:Alistair. She added a couple that are way less harsh, but still make sense in the context of the conversation. Though now I dislike it less. I never hardened him on my Daylen Amell (he was too much of a sweetheart to use that line and since he left Anora solo on the throne didn't need to). I used to harden him a lot more but toward the end of my playing origins, I started not doing so. Unhardened Alistair is a hard thing to swallow at the Landsmeet though. I saved up meeting Goldanna once on one of my HNF runs and I just wanted to slap him for waffling so much.
I hardened him after. I don't put unhardened Alistair on the throne.
It's a line many dislike and one reason I like Cmess's mod IRS:Alistair. She added a couple that are way less harsh, but still make sense in the context of the conversation. Though now I dislike it less. I never hardened him on my Daylen Amell (he was too much of a sweetheart to use that line and since he left Anora solo on the throne didn't need to). I used to harden him a lot more but toward the end of my playing origins, I started not doing so. Unhardened Alistair is a hard thing to swallow at the Landsmeet though. I saved up meeting Goldanna once on one of my HNF runs and I just wanted to slap him for waffling so much.
I hardened him after. I don't put unhardened Alistair on the throne.
I didn't know about that mod; if it doesn't conflict with a couple of others that I have installed, I'll definitely use it. Still, if one can stomach the vanilla line, it's rather heartwarming when your Warden and Alistair talk about it at camp and you have the option to say something like 'You've got the right idea, but don't let me influence you; don't do it because I said so' and he actually approves (+2, if my memory serves me right). It implies that he realises you are one of the few, if not the only one, who cares about what *he* thinks and wants to do - that you just gave him your advice (or tough love, take your pick) and it's up to him what he does with it; in short, that you see him as an individual and not a puppet. I could be headcanoning, but that's what I gathered from that dialogue, anyway.
You know... I think I should harden him with my Female Cousland, too, now that you point that out. It's not that he loves her any less and, if anything, they're both good rulers either way.
I didn't know about that mod; if it doesn't conflict with a couple of others that I have installed, I'll definitely use it.
You know... I think I should harden him with my Female Cousland, too, now that you point that out. It's not that he loves her any less and, if anything, they're both good rulers either way.
As far as I know it plays nice with a lot of mods, depending on what you have installed. It won't go well with anything that alters Alistair's dialogues, probably like Dialogue Tweaks, but I have gotten it to play nice with ZDF and MRP with a few adjustments to the latter mods. It mostly alters just his dialogues, adds a few new scenes, and an origin specific scene (especially if romancing him). It also plays nice with Dahlialynn's mods like Sleep Till Dawn, Alistair's Nightmare and the Royal Wedding. In the descriptive of most mods it will say if it's compatible as it's been out for quite some time. It also fixes a crapton of misplaced plot flags, dialogue bugs (adding an additional dialogue in Ostagar) and bugs in general (like the broken Alistair kiss when he propositions the romanced Warden).
(Although I'm also guilty to admit that my Female Cousland never hardens him...
Well then you're not doing the foreplay right, if she can't even get him hard.
Anyway, why? Why do you want a whiny manchild with a spine of rubber as your love? Every single romance I've done with him has been him hardened, I can't imagine why anyone wanting to romance him WOULDN'T. I want my romance to be my equal, someone I truly respect. Only hardened Alistair is that.
Well then you're not doing the foreplay right, if she can't even get him hard.
Anyway, why? Why do you want a whiny manchild with a spine of rubber as your love? Every single romance I've done with him has been him hardened, I can't imagine why anyone wanting to romance him WOULDN'T. I want my romance to be my equal, someone I truly respect. Only hardened Alistair is that.
Some women consider his lines unhardened to be sweeter than his hardened ones if romanced. TBH I only recall not hardening him on my male Amell since that was one of the last runs I did before I stopped playing. Daylen was a sweetiepie, a gentle healer-type, and that line (even the modded ones) were just too harsh for the roleplay I had for him. Instead he had a 'bro-mance' going on with Alistair. They were best friends and he ended up telling him "you have others who care about you". Maybe not very manly a thing to say, but then, I'm not a man anyway.
Some women consider his lines unhardened to be sweeter than his hardened ones if romanced. TBH I only recall not hardening him on my male Amell since that was one of the last runs I did before I stopped playing. Daylen was a sweetiepie, a gentle healer-type, and that line (even the modded ones) were just too harsh for the roleplay I had for him. Instead he had a 'bro-mance' going on with Alistair. They were best friends and he ended up telling him "you have others who care about you". Maybe not very manly a thing to say, but then, I'm not a man anyway.
Just roleplay a different line then. I do it all the time with my Warden, I use my knowledge of the dialogue to consider my Warden's line to be a... Suggestion. Like you could think she just said "You should stop letting people try to push you around so much", to which his response (just looked at the scene again you Youtube) "You're right, I should". See, perfect. Like in Mass Effect, the words on the dialogue choice don't need to word for word match what you imagine your character saying. Like another example, the guy in the Carta base who asks for a password when you enter, all your choices are bad guesses and another that is basically "Uh... I know, Die!". I find that cheesy, and none match their personality. So I just imagine them saying "Aw f*ck, of course they would have a guard. So much for the subtle approach." to which the guard replies "Looks like we have a martyr, boys". Or the slaver late in the game who says "Enough. I'm here to halt your slaughter, nothing more.", and my response is "I want you to try."
I've never imagined the lines matching exactly what they say, you can easily fill in the line you see with a more true-to-your-character one and it still make perfect sense with how the other person responds. Am I an exception? I thought everyone does this. No voice acting for your character gives you a lot of roleplay room, why not use it?
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