271 réponses à ce sujet

[sylvanaerie]

Hmmmm. . .

 

 

This has enlightened me. . I didn't actually know that he does nothing to the execution of Alistair. . .damn

 

But can you please tell me who was responsible of fixing the supposedly broken amulet of Alistair's mom?This amulet broke because at the time Alistair was to be sent to the chantry, Alistair threw this amulet and it broke. and why put it in Eamon's drawer?

 

Come to think of it, that's the only thing i think was a confusing thing from everything u guys said

 

It is unknown who fixed the amulet.  Alistair assumes it was Eamon, but there is no actual confirmation anywhere in game who it was.  It could have been a servant, Teagan, anyone.  Just because it's found in Eamon's drawer doesn't provide definitive proof it was Eamon, but I think the player is supposed to assume it was Eamon, and if so, adds a new twist to the whole thing since in other respects he doesn't treat Alistair very well.

[Jedimaster88]

I've never seen Game of Thrones, but that is absolutely ridiculous and kind of comical. 

 

Did Tommen believe him?

 

What Riverdaleswhiteflash said. If you want to watch the whole scene, here you go

   

[ImAnElfMofos!]

It is unknown who fixed the amulet.  Alistair assumes it was Eamon, but there is no actual confirmation anywhere in game who it was.  It could have been a servant, Teagan, anyone.  Just because it's found in Eamon's drawer doesn't provide definitive proof it was Eamon, but I think the player is supposed to assume it was Eamon, and if so, adds a new twist to the whole thing since in other respects he doesn't treat Alistair very well.

 

Isn't alistair's mom a servant? is it possible that it was her? Maybe she was there when Alistair was sent to the chantry and took and had it repaired ??

[andy6915]

Isn't alistair's mom a servant? is it possible that it was her? Maybe she was there when Alistair was sent to the chantry and took and had it repaired ??

No, his mother was not a servant. That was a lie he was told. His mother is an elf, Fiona. Technically makes Alistair half-elf, but half-elves aren't actually a thing in DA since all people with elven and human parents always turn out fully human.

[IanPolaris]

No, his mother was not a servant. That was a lie he was told. His mother is an elf, Fiona. Technically makes Alistair half-elf, but half-elves aren't actually a thing in DA since all people with elven and human parents always turn out fully human.

This also means that Goldanna is not Alistair's sister....which IMHO is a relief.

[andy6915]

This also means that Goldanna is not Alistair's sister....which IMHO is a relief.

 

Yeah... But it does mean an idiot like Fiona is his mother. So that doesn't really even out very well.

[TEWR]

 

ut can you please tell me who was responsible of fixing the supposedly broken amulet of Alistair's mom?This amulet broke because at the time Alistair was to be sent to the chantry, Alistair threw this amulet and it broke. and why put it in Eamon's drawer?

 

It's not entirely uncommon for abusive people to use mementos as a means to manipulate people, I believe. So yes, Eamon did repair it... but probably not for entirely altruistic reasons.

 

Or Teagan repaired it and gave it to Eamon.

[dragonflight288]

 

What Riverdaleswhiteflash said. If you want to watch the whole scene, here you go

   

 

 

Thanks.

 

Just watched the whole scene. 

 

He's quite a wily fox, isn't he. Increasing his own position and influence with the future king in the form of good advice, advice that may, down the line, have him be the power behind the throne.

 

Really good set-up to that and pointing out the flaws of the virtues mentioned previous taken in excess. 

 

I would add something else. Wisdom is understanding that too much of anything is never a good thing. Too much reliance on a particular adviser, too much of a particular virtue or vice, or even too much of anything, really. 

[dragonflight288]

Double post

 

Thought I might bring this up. After watching that video, it reminded me of this game you can get on Steam. It's really cheap. Warning, do not take the graphics, costumes or the main character to mean it's a game for girls or kids. This game can actually be really dark.

 

http://store.steampo...com/app/251990/

 

Long Live the Queen. 

 

PS: If you play this game, you'll die. A lot. 

[IanPolaris]

Yeah... But it does mean an idiot like Fiona is his mother. So that doesn't really even out very well.

 

Honestly I think most of that was Character Assassination in DAI to make the Templars look better (by making the mages look like idiots).  If you read the books, Fiona is not the doofus that DAI protrays her as.

[dragonflight288]

Honestly I think most of that was Character Assassination in DAI to make the Templars look better (by making the mages look like idiots).  If you read the books, Fiona is not the doofus that DAI protrays her as.

 

Yeah, then she was criticized as a mary sue. 

 

Her critics love to criticize her. 

[andy6915]

Honestly I think most of that was Character Assassination in DAI to make the Templars look better (by making the mages look like idiots).  If you read the books, Fiona is not the doofus that DAI protrays her as.

Well maybe she had a stroke and never knew about it or hit her head or something. People have strokes all the time without knowing about it until years or decades later, and they can make you dumber without making it ultra obvious.

[Xetykins]

Honestly I think most of that was Character Assassination in DAI to make the Templars look better (by making the mages look like idiots).  If you read the books, Fiona is not the doofus that DAI protrays her as.

And considering the amount of outrage upon finding out Fiona was Alistair's mother, making her looking like an idiot seems to become the middle ground , I think.

[MisterJB]

 

Fiona tried to have around a dozen mages vote for independence in the seat of Andrastianism while they were surrounded by thousands of Templars and tens of thousands of soldiers and chevaliers and hundreds of thousands of normal people.

Long term planning is really not her strong point.

Or short term planning.

In fact, what was the plan there again?

[IanPolaris]

 

 

Fiona tried to have around a dozen mages vote for independence in the seat of Andrastianism while they were surrounded by thousands of Templars and tens of thousands of soldiers and chevaliers and hundreds of thousands of normal people.

Long term planning is really not her strong point.

Or short term planning.

In fact, what was the plan there again?

 

 

It was survival by that point.  In the Halocaust, if an SS-man had died every time he tried to take a Jew into "custody", the entire pogrom would have become untenable quickly.  This was a lesson taken to heart by modern Israel.  As far as Fiona was concerned (and given what Meridith did, the Seeker's shocking inaction towards that, and given Lambert's desire to destroy all mages I think Fiona was justified), it was the same situation.

 

If not then, then it would be never since Lambert was clearly out of control and willing to go to any length to destroy the mages.  Lambert did not come to the circle vote to reason.  He came to kill.  That was why the Libertarians carried the day.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

It was survival by that point.  In the Halocaust, if an SS-man had died every time he tried to take a Jew into "custody", the entire pogrom would have become untenable quickly.  This was a lesson taken to heart by modern Israel.  As far as Fiona was concerned (and given what Meridith did, the Seeker's shocking inaction towards that, and given Lambert's desire to destroy all mages I think Fiona was justified), it was the same situation.

 

If not then, then it would be never since Lambert was clearly out of control and willing to go to any length to destroy the mages.  Lambert did not come to the circle vote to reason.  He came to kill.  That was why the Libertarians carried the day.

I'd been rather under the impression that he'd meant to imprison rather than kill, and that it went wrong because someone that close to a cartoon villain can't very well have competent minions. Or was I mistaken?

[IanPolaris]

I'd been rather under the impression that he'd meant to imprison rather than kill, and that it went wrong because someone that close to a cartoon villain can't very well have competent minions. Or was I mistaken?

 

Lambert was willing to kill and even break with the chantry over tranquility research.  He was even willing to break with the chantry (with no real plan on how to go forward) and he deliberately and willfully (Cassandra confirms this in DAI) overlooked Meridith's abuses.

 

All told, if I were a mage I would consider 'confinement' to be the equivalent of death in that case.

[TEWR]

 

 

Fiona tried to have around a dozen mages vote for independence in the seat of Andrastianism while they were surrounded by thousands of Templars and tens of thousands of soldiers and chevaliers and hundreds of thousands of normal people.

Long term planning is really not her strong point.

Or short term planning.

In fact, what was the plan there again?

 

 

But it was under legal protocol that she did it. When the Templars began the assault (as I recall it was a young Templar who got scared and **** fell apart as a result) it showed that even when they abide by the rules, they'll still be treated poorly. It was actually more brilliant because it showed the Mages that nothing they did would ever work in their favor, so war was the answer.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

But it was under legal protocol that she did it. When the Templars began the assault (as I recall it was a young Templar who got scared and **** fell apart as a result) it showed that even when they abide by the rules, they'll still be treated poorly. It was actually more brilliant because it showed the Mages that nothing they did would ever work in their favor, so war was the answer.

I don't think that answers the very basic point JB was making though. Without getting into whether or not war was justified, how likely was it to be successful from that starting point?

 

Lambert was willing to kill and even break with the chantry over tranquility research.  He was even willing to break with the chantry (with no real plan on how to go forward) and he deliberately and willfully (Cassandra confirms this in DAI) overlooked Meridith's abuses.

 

All told, if I were a mage I would consider 'confinement' to be the equivalent of death in that case.

The difference is that death is permanent, whereas little else Lambert could do was after Tranquility ceased to be over his protests. Lord Seekers come and go, and presumably Justinia (who was sympathetic to what Fiona wanted) was going to have some input in who the next one was. (Though it is my understanding that Fiona was unable or unwilling to think in that direction, and said "**** the [highest placed supporter of my agenda]." Why does everyone say DA:I made her an idiot, again? It was my understanding that all it made her was less determined.)

[KaiserShep]

I don't think that answers the very basic point JB was making though. Without getting into whether or not war was justified, how likely was it to be successful from that starting point?

 

Low probability of success doesn't always outweigh the negatives of simply doing nothing. If you're screwed either way, fighting may be preferable to simply bending over and taking it.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Low probability of success doesn't always outweigh the negatives of simply doing nothing. If you're screwed either way, fighting may be preferable to simply bending over and taking it.

Two problems I have with that approach here:

 

One: Lambert is going to come down on the mages if they try this and fail, which is pretty much guaranteed. You don't want to give this guy a good reason to kill/tranq a lot of mages. He'll freaking take it.

Two: To the best of my knowledge the mages hadn't even tried courting Justinia, who took their side as far as spreading the Tranquility cure despite Lambert being (so far as either she or the mages had any rational reason to believe) entirely right about the dangers of said knowledge. Given her reaction when they esacpe Lambert (and the fact that they could not have done it without Justinia's help in the first place) they had an ally there. The main issue I have with your counterargument is that I'm not arguing for doing nothing: I'm arguing for being smarter about what they want than Fiona and Adrian were. (Note also that I'd be somewhat less judgmental of Fiona for doing what she did if she'd tried that and failed.)

[andy6915]

I call Fiora stupid for knowingly turning her people/mages into Tevinter slaves for a bit of protection. That is just... So... Dumb. I thought mages were "freedom at all cost, we live free or we die free" like Anders and Morrigan. Instead, they happily chose submission over death. I'm now suddenly remembering Saren's "is submission not preferable to extinction?" line, and realizing that Fiora would give a definite affirmative to that question.

[IanPolaris]

Two problems I have with that approach here:

 

One: Lambert is going to come down on the mages if they try this and fail, which is pretty much guaranteed. You don't want to give this guy a good reason to kill/tranq a lot of mages. He'll freaking take it.

Two: To the best of my knowledge the mages hadn't even tried courting Justinia, who took their side as far as spreading the Tranquility cure despite Lambert being (so far as either she or the mages had any rational reason to believe) entirely right about the dangers of said knowledge. Given her reaction when they esacpe Lambert (and the fact that they could not have done it without Justinia's help in the first place) they had an ally there. The main issue I have with your counterargument is that I'm not arguing for doing nothing: I'm arguing for being smarter about what they want than Fiona and Adrian were. (Note also that I'd be somewhat less judgmental of Fiona for doing what she did if she'd tried that and failed.)

 

After Kirkwall, the Seeker's criminal negligance, and after Lamberts own actions especially given the mages were holding a legal vote using their legal rights, I would draw the same basic conclusion that Fiona did.   If all the other options lead to death and it doesn't matter if you follow the rules or not, then you fight...and deal with the consequences later.

[IanPolaris]

I call Fiora stupid for knowingly turning her people/mages into Tevinter slaves for a bit of protection. That is just... So... Dumb. I thought mages were "freedom at all cost, we live free or we die free" like Anders and Morrigan. Instead, they happily chose submission over death. I'm now suddenly remembering Saren's "is submission not preferable to extinction?" line, and realizing that Fiora would give a definite affirmative to that question.

 

I agree this was dumb and it's totally out of character for Fiona when you look at all other places we read about her (at least if you read the books).  It's classic character assassination designed specifically to make the templars look better.  The Dalish and how they handled mages were slimed via retcon for exactly the same reason.

[TEWR]

It would help if Fiona wasn't relegated to the sidelines and we could actually talk with her more. I understand the situation she's placed in canon but it's given an incredibly shallow treatment in game that does assassinate her character. She once considered the Circles to be worse then when she was a sex slave to a noble, didn't she? At the very least, I can't see her ever submitting to slavery again, in any form -- except of course if we could talk with her more to understand that she was willing to swallow her pride for her people.

 

Which she doesn't anyway if certain conditions are met. She ends up breaking away again in some endings, possibly leading to more war. Funny how Bioware wanted to write her as being "tired of war" and "seeing people die" only to then write her as being a warmonger in the end no matter what -- which I see as them trying to say "GO TEMPLAR INSTEAD" (which is honestly a problem with DAI as a whole because as it's written it's more from a pro-Templar side of things in how it works better).

 

I can understand Fiona wanting to save as many people as she can because she's seen too many die, but such a mentality merits a full-scale exploration as to what war truly entails, not what the game gave us. But the way Bioware did it did nothing other then scream to the players "MAGES ARE IDIOTS" so that they could go the Templar route instead. It was poorly done, all told.

 

It's complicated right now for me to form the words, partially because it's late and partially because I haven't played DAI a full second time due to lag, but suffice to say like many things my issue isn't necessarily with the decision Fiona made but rather the decisions Bioware made in the execution of that writing.