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[MisterJB]

 

The point is not whether Fiona should have encouraged the mages to fight but rather how stupidly she went about it.

Let's assume for a second that Lambert didn't interrupt the gathering and the mages voted for independence.

They leave the conclave and, when asked about their decision regarding the Rite of Tranquility, they say they have just declared any and all authority over the Circle ended.

What next? Is everyone else in the world just going to go "Well, since they voted on it, I guess we have no choice but to accept it. Let's all sit down and discuss what comes next."

 

Or the far more likely "No, you have not. And if you try to spread this nonsense to the Circles, we have no choice but to kill you all here and now."

Considering they were surrounded by thousands of Templars, never mind the tens of thousands of normal soldiers and Chevaliers and hundreds of thousands of citizens of Val Royeaux, they didn't stand a chance.

 

Without the pro-mage Justinia and Cole and Shale, none of which Fiona could have predicted, their rebellion would have died in the bud.

 

And even though everything worked out in the best way they could have hoped for, they lost hundreds of mages even before the rebellion was declared.

Asunder, page 400:
 

"they came hungry, with empty hands and fear in their eyes as well as tales of what was now happening in the other Circles. The Templars had cracked down. In some places they received the news of the White Spire weven before the mages there did and had struck preemptively. It made no difference. In each tower, the mages reacted the same way: They fought. Many died. The rest fled.

"

So, even before the rebellion was declared, the first battles had already been fought and the mages lost them.

 

AND THEN, by the time of Inquisition, the mages have all but lost the war already. The Templars still have fortresses under their command while the mages are landless, homeless, have been banned from every city in Thedas but Redcliff and even their presence there is only thanks to mercy of non-mage rulers whom can expell them whenever they feel like it.

Really unless the Inquisitions sides with them, allies with them and helps ellect an extremely pro-mage Divine, their rebellion is a failure. And none of these are circunstances Fiona could have predicted or helped bring across.

 

So, really, Fiona is stupid. Just because she makes stupid decisions in DAI does not mean her character has been assassinated. She was always stupid.

 

 

 

[IanPolaris]

No, Fiona's character was definately assassinated and you'd know that if you read all the books she was in.  In the case of Asunder she felt she was cornered and it was either surrender and die or fight.  She chose to fight.  When one is cornered, there isn't room for long term planning.

 

The blame for that lies with Lambert.

[MisterJB]

First and foremost, I have read all the Dragon Age books.

 

Second, Fiona was not cornered in Asunder. She chose to hijack the meeting and she chose to refuse to end it when Lambert demanded. If she had not taken those actions, the Circles would go on but the mages would go on living. So, if her life was at any point threatened, it was due to her own actions.

Considering that she was the one who called for independence; which always meant war; one would expect for her to, at least, not do so when the leaders of the mages are surrounded by hundreds of thousands of their enemies.

That is a failure in long term planning, short term, just planning at all in fact.

 

Therefore, if anything was missing from Fiona in DAI was her fire, she seemed to be very meek. But making braindead decisions without thinking about consequences is right up her alley.

[IanPolaris]

First and foremost, I have read all the Dragon Age books.

 

Second, Fiona was not cornered in Asunder. She chose to hijack the meeting and she chose to refuse to end it when Lambert demanded. If she had not taken those actions, the Circles would go on but the mages would go on living. So, if her life was at any point threatened, it was due to her own actions.

Considering that she was the one who called for independence; which always meant war; one would expect for her to, at least, not do so when the leaders of the mages are surrounded by hundreds of thousands of their enemies.

That is a failure in long term planning, short term, just planning at all in fact.

 

Therefore, if anything was missing from Fiona in DAI was her fire, she seemed to be very meek. But making braindead decisions without thinking about consequences is right up her alley.

 

Fiona and the Circle were both within their legal rights.   Lambert wasn't and went in on a literal killing spree anyway and wasn't willing to listen to anyone including the Divine who should have been his superior.

 

Lambert was wrong and Fiona was right, but because the mages were getting killed anyway even after following the rules, they had no choice but to fight.  You hatred of mages is affecting your perspective.

[MisterJB]

This is not about whether something is right or not. I could definitively argue that Lambert was in the right but that is not what I am doing.

What we are arguing is if Fiona's character was assassinated in DAI because she made stupid decisions which is what you, and others, were claiming.

I am arguing that is not true because, as we can see in Asunder, making stupid decisions is part of Fiona's character.
Said decisions include attempting to declare independence when the leaders of the mages are surrounded by hundreds of thousands of their enemies. Whether they were in the right or not is irrelevant here because intelligence or stupidity are not affected by morality.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

This is not about whether something is right or not. I could definitively argue that Lambert was in the right but that is not what I am doing.

What we are arguing is if Fiona's character was assassinated in DAI because she made stupid decisions which is what you, and others, were claiming.

I am arguing that is not true because, as we can see in Asunder, making stupid decisions is part of Fiona's character.
Said decisions include attempting to declare independence when the leaders of the mages are surrounded by hundreds of thousands of their enemies. Whether they were in the right or not is irrelevant here because intelligence or stupidity are not affected by morality.

I would argue that the specific stupid decision she made in Inquisition really is character assassination, not because it's stupid but because it's unprincipled. Say what you will about Asunder!Fiona, she had serious guts.

 

Edit: Oh, wait, you said that. Sorry.

[MisterJB]

I would argue that the specific stupid decision she made in Inquisition really is character assassination, not because it's stupid but because it's unprincipled. Say what you will about Asunder!Fiona, she had serious guts.

 

Edit: Oh, wait, you said that. Sorry.

 

She did, before DAI, I would have thought her the type of person who would sooner see all mages dead than surrendering.

 

Of course, it's possible she had a bias and the idea of mages holding non-mages as slaves doesn't bother her as much as the other way around hence why accepting Tevinter's aid did not bother her overmuch.

And since she is stupid, she didn't predict them taking advantage of the mage's desperation.
 

[IanPolaris]

She did, before DAI, I would have thought her the type of person who would sooner see all mages dead than surrendering.

 

Of course, it's possible she had a bias and the idea of mages holding non-mages as slaves doesn't bother her as much as the other way around hence why accepting Tevinter's aid did not bother her overmuch.

And since she is stupid, she didn't predict them taking advantage of the mage's desperation.
 

 

It's character assassination because the writers are handing Fiona an idiot ball and making her look like an obvious idiot, and whether you agreed with what she did before or not, how she was protrayed in DAI was completely out of character both in smarts and in courage with what she was like previously.  This is character assassination.  There is no way that a person who was a de-facto sex slave in Orlais would ever sell out herself or those in her charge into slavery, yet this is what DAI would have you believe.  Character assassination.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

It's character assassination because the writers are handing Fiona an idiot ball and making her look like an obvious idiot, and whether you agreed with what she did before or not, how she was protrayed in DAI was completely out of character both in smarts and in courage with what she was like previously.  This is character assassination.  There is no way that a person who was a de-facto sex slave in Orlais would ever sell out herself or those in her charge into slavery, yet this is what DAI would have you believe.  Character assassination.

Nobody's denying that her character was handed a massive hypocrisy ball, but since (so far as I'm aware) she doesn't even consider courting the Divine as an ally* I'm not sure you have a case that she was handed an idiot ball. True, the Divine was only limitedly in charge of Lambert, but she used what little control she had over the situation to help Fiona completely unsolicited. And my limited understanding of Asunder (I haven't actually read the books) is that without that help Fiona would have failed and wound up making things worse for the mages. You can argue that the war was going to happen, but if you want to argue that Fiona handled its start better than she handled its end, make it good.

 

* Were her exact words something like "**** the Divine?"

[MisterJB]

 

She said "**** the Divine" with all the letters and then claimed they couldn't wait for her to decide when to do "what is right".

Let's face it, Fiona made it through life by sheer belligerence and luck alone. She is not a master planner.

[IanPolaris]

 

 

She said "**** the Divine" with all the letters and then claimed they couldn't wait for her to decide when to do "what is right".

Let's face it, Fiona made it through life by sheer belligerence and luck alone. She is not a master planner.

 

 

You are geing selective here as well as overlooking the overall point.

 

Fiona HATES slavery and her character clearly shows that she'd rather die than either be a slave herself or commit those in her care to slavery including taking a stand that she knows may well mean death if there is no other options.  Fiona didn't push for mage independance blindly.  She knew the consequences...and it wasn't like the other enchanters there didn't point them out!  However, given how little the Divine was able to control Lambert and given the criminal negligence that even allowed Meredith to operate as she did in Kirkwall both by the Seekers and the Chantry as a whole, Fiona and the Circles saw no reason to cultivate the Divine.

 

The POINT is that there is no way that a person that hates slavery and servitude and WAS essentially an Orlesian sex-slave herself would allow Tevinter to do the same to the mages.  The fact she makes such an obviously bad, cowardly, and out of character decision is in fact character assassination.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

You are geing selective here as well as overlooking the overall point.

 

Fiona HATES slavery and her character clearly shows that she'd rather die than either be a slave herself or commit those in her care to slavery including taking a stand that she knows may well mean death if there is no other options.  Fiona didn't push for mage independance blindly.  She knew the consequences...and it wasn't like the other enchanters there didn't point them out!  However, given how little the Divine was able to control Lambert and given the criminal negligence that even allowed Meredith to operate as she did in Kirkwall both by the Seekers and the Chantry as a whole, Fiona and the Circles saw no reason to cultivate the Divine.

 

The POINT is that there is no way that a person that hates slavery and servitude and WAS essentially an Orlesian sex-slave herself would allow Tevinter to do the same to the mages.  The fact she makes such an obviously bad, cowardly, and out of character decision is in fact character assassination.

The Divine is (at least on paper) one of the most practically powerful people on the planet, is more theologically legitimate than Lambert, and is (we're supposed to believe) an expert at playing people. I can see not having much faith in her given how little her tricks seem to work on Lambert, though the fact that Fiona didn't even see if she could be costlessly courted is nonetheless questionably pragmatic.

[IanPolaris]

The Divine is (at least on paper) one of the most practically powerful people on the planet, is more theologically legitimate than Lambert, and is (we're supposed to believe) an expert at playing people. I can see not having much faith in her given how little her tricks seem to work on Lambert, though the fact that Fiona didn't even see if she could be costlessly courted is nonetheless questionably pragmatic.

 

The key part of that is "on paper".  The way I see it, she could either trust the Divine to do something that the Divine has never shown the ability to do all while Lambert was showing more and more signs of a "hang 'em high" mentality, Divine or no.  Or she could push for a vote of independance (which was within her legal rights) and take her chances.  It was not a decision or vote that was made lightly, and Lambert's reaction to even the vote (which wasn't actually completed until later) showed that in this case Fiona had the right of it.

 

Regardless even if you disagree with Fiona on this point, it showed both serious guts and a willingness to accept and understand that things would be hard but that in the end "death" isn't the worst thing that can happen to someone.

 

The problem (and what makes what happened in DAI character assassination) is that NONE of this leadership or guts is evident in DAI....and remember that Fiona was hardly "Die Mage Fuhrer".  She led the rebel circles by concensus but she DID answer to the other senior enchanters.  Even IF Fiona were that big an idiot and coward (and this is where the character assassination comes in...esp the cowardice part), the other senior mages should have deep-sixed the obviously bad (and bad-faith) Tevinter "offer".

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

The key part of that is "on paper".  The way I see it, she could either trust the Divine to do something that the Divine has never shown the ability to do all while Lambert was showing more and more signs of a "hang 'em high" mentality, Divine or no.  Or she could push for a vote of independance (which was within her legal rights) and take her chances.  It was not a decision or vote that was made lightly, and Lambert's reaction to even the vote (which wasn't actually completed until later) showed that in this case Fiona had the right of it.

 

Regardless even if you disagree with Fiona on this point, it showed both serious guts and a willingness to accept and understand that things would be hard but that in the end "death" isn't the worst thing that can happen to someone.

 

The problem (and what makes what happened in DAI character assassination) is that NONE of this leadership or guts is evident in DAI....and remember that Fiona was hardly "Die Mage Fuhrer".  She led the rebel circles by concensus but she DID answer to the other senior enchanters.  Even IF Fiona were that big an idiot and coward (and this is where the character assassination comes in...esp the cowardice part), the other senior mages should have deep-sixed the obviously bad (and bad-faith) Tevinter "offer".

I didn't say she should make that the only thing up her sleeve. If she can court the Divine without having to give up too much of her own plans to counter Lambert (such as they are, because she really has nothing) then she should. The difficulty is that Fiona didn't dismiss it because she'd have to give up too much of her own leverage from all I can tell: she just dismissed it.

 

As for the thing where her leadership and guts are gone, we keep admitting that. We're not arguing that her actions in Asunder aren't brave, we're arguing that they aren't smart. So I don't know why you keep bringing it back up.

[IanPolaris]

I didn't say she should make that the only thing up her sleeve. If she can court the Divine without having to give up too much of her own plans to counter Lambert (such as they are, because she really has nothing) then she should. The difficulty is that Fiona didn't dismiss it because she'd have to give up too much of her own leverage from all I can tell: she just dismissed it.

 

As for the thing where her leadership and guts are gone, we keep admitting that. We're not arguing that her actions in Asunder aren't brave, we're arguing that they aren't smart. So I don't know why you keep bringing it back up.

 

I keep bringing it up because it is out of character!  Having Bioware have Fiona do something that utterly out of character for her just to make the mages look like idiots and fools (and hated) is classic character assassination...and frankly it's working (which is why I feel the need to call it out).

 

Edit addendum:  As for dismissing it, why shouldn't Fiona dismiss it?  What has the Chantry done for the circles lately and did they even really try?  Not much and not really comes forcibly to mind.  In short, "Far too little and far too damn late".  I frankly agreed with Fiona's decision.  The Divine didn't deserve the time of day let alone anything more....at least not as of Asunder.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I keep bringing it up because it is out of character!  Having Bioware have Fiona do something that utterly out of character for her just to make the mages look like idiots and fools (and hated) is classic character assassination...and frankly it's working (which is why I feel the need to call it out).

 

Edit addendum:  As for dismissing it, why shouldn't Fiona dismiss it?  What has the Chantry done for the circles lately and did they even really try?  Not much and not really comes forcibly to mind.  In short, "Far too little and far too damn late".  I frankly agreed with Fiona's decision.  The Divine didn't deserve the time of day let alone anything more....at least not as of Asunder.

Fiona's plans become easier if she can bring the Divine on board without unduly compromising herself in other directions, which she won't find out unless she actually makes an effort. Either way, her plans could easily become much harder if a Loyalist reports that she said "**** the Divine" in as many words. Just because you don't think someone can help you doesn't mean you should risk alienating them, especially when she does, on paper, have the power to make all the decisions. The thing about risking the wrath of someone who has a lot of power on paper is that some of that power might actually exist. And Justinia proves that at least some of hers does when allows the spread of the Tranquility cure over Lambert's (for all she can tell justified) fear of what that knowledge will cause. At that point you really do want to start thinking about what else you can get from her if you only ask politely.

 

I agree that Fiona's actions in Inquisition are out of character, but not because she doesn't think before she does them.

[IanPolaris]

Fiona's plans become easier if she can bring the Divine on board without unduly compromising herself in other directions, which she won't find out unless she actually makes an effort. Either way, her plans could easily become much harder if a Loyalist reports that she said "**** the Divine" in as many words. Just because you don't think someone can help you doesn't mean you should risk alienating them, especially when she does, on paper, have the power to make all the decisions. The thing about risking the wrath of someone who has a lot of power on paper is that some of that power might actually exist. And Justinia proves that at least some of hers does when allows the spread of the Tranquility cure over Lambert's (for all she can tell justified) fear of what that knowledge will cause. At that point you really do want to start thinking about what else you can get from her if you only ask politely.

 

I agree that Fiona's actions in Inquisition are out of character, but not because she doesn't think before she does them.

 

 

The problem is that by this late date Fiona didn't believe in the Divine or her good faith...or even if she (the Divine) had good faith she would be able to act on it....and those fears turned out to be well founded.  You may disagree with Fiona's tactics here (and that really isn't my point) but that conclusion and her feeling of "to hell with them" while desperate is not ipso facto stupid. 

 

As for DAI, the very nature of how she is out of character is what makes it character assassination.  In DAI she is protrayed not only as stupid (which she hadn't been protrayed as such before) but almost criminally cowardly as well which (I think we agree) is certainly not in character for her.  How is that not character assassination?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

The problem is that by this late date Fiona didn't believe in the Divine or her good faith...or even if she (the Divine) had good faith she would be able to act on it....and those fears turned out to be well founded.  You may disagree with Fiona's tactics here (and that really isn't my point) but that conclusion and her feeling of "to hell with them" while desperate is not ipso facto stupid. 

 

As for DAI, the very nature of how she is out of character is what makes it character assassination.  In DAI she is protrayed not only as stupid (which she hadn't been protrayed as such before) but almost criminally cowardly as well which (I think we agree) is certainly not in character for her.  How is that not character assassination?

First paragraph: I'm not saying to trust the Divine, and I'm not saying to weaken herself on the Divine's sayso. I'm just saying that putting forth whatever effort she can spare on the Divine would be wise to do, since time and resources that aren't being spent anywhere else might as well be spent here on the off chance that it helps.

 

Second paragraph: I'm not arguing that there wasn't some character assassination. Merely that Fiona's out of character actions are out of character because of her previously shown courage, and not because she showed any particular degree of cunning previously. What Inquisition!Fiona did was believe Alexius and go along with his offer; I don't have any real faith in Asunder!Fiona to do better seeing through his shenanigans, but I do think she'd have been more likely to shrug and say "Well, that's the bed we made," be ready to go down fighting, and be pleasantly surprised that she doesn't have to. (Assuming that Alexius doesn't step up his game by making better use of his Time Magic to assassinate her and engineer a pliable replacement, though he might have an interesting time of it trying to kill her if she's any good at healing or clever enough to post a concealed guard. Though I do view the latter as unlikely.)

[IanPolaris]

First paragraph: I'm not saying to trust the Divine, and I'm not saying to weaken herself on the Divine's sayso. I'm just saying that putting forth whatever effort she can spare on the Divine would be wise to do, since time and resources that aren't being spent anywhere else might as well be spent here on the off chance that it helps.

 

Second paragraph: I'm not arguing that there wasn't some character assassination. Merely that Fiona's out of character actions are out of character because of her previously shown courage, and not because she showed any particular degree of cunning previously. What Inquisition!Fiona did was believe Alexius and go along with his offer; I don't have any real faith in Asunder!Fiona to do better seeing through his shenanigans, but I do think she'd have been more likely to shrug and say "Well, that's the bed we made," be ready to go down fighting, and be pleasantly surprised that she doesn't have to. (Assuming that Alexius doesn't step up his game by making better use of his Time Magic to assassinate her and engineer a pliable replacement, though he might have an interesting time of it trying to kill her if she's any good at healing or clever enough to post a concealed guard. Though I do view the latter as unlikely.)

 

First paragraph:  Whether we agree with Fiona's decision or not, not trusting the Divine was NOT an act of stupidity.  Fiona had every reason to say, "The hell with you" to the Divine.  It may or may not have been the best course of action in Asunder, but it wasn't a stupid decision given the circumstances.  This is in direct contrast with how she is protrayed in DAI where she IS a coward and IS stupid.  That brings me to....

 

Second Paragraph:  My point is that Fiona is being shown out of character specifically to show her and the mages in the worst possible light.  Even if you didn't agree with me on the stupidity angle, the 'cowardice' angle carries the day.  That puts the entire plotline and Bioware's writing into an extremely questionable light.  I would also add that all the prior books Fiona was seen in, while youi could argue the wisdome of some of her decisions, they weren't jaw-dropping, derp worthy decisions!  Almost every decision she makes in DAI is exactly that.  She of all people has to know what "indentured servitude" means (because she WAS a de-facto Orlesian sex-slave at the tender age of seven), and if that isn't character assassination, then what is?

[MisterJB]

 

There is a difference between not trusting someone who has power and activelly doing one's best to antagonize said powerful person.

A is wise, B is stupid. Fiona chose B.

 

What smart decisions have we ever seen Fiona taking in her position of First Enchanter?

 

1-Calling for a vote of independence when the mage leadership is surrounded by hundreds of thousands of non-mages, including Templars, Soldiers, Chevaliers, Bards, etc.

 

2-Declaring independence when, from what we can tell, mages had no valuable resources, no allies, no spy network, no blackmail material, no infrastructure and not even an actual alternative to the Circle to present to the world. Nothing but what they could carry and their own magical power.

Which is unthinkable considering that Fiona is an elven mage and also the mother of Ferelden's king. Can you spell blackmail?

 

3-Alienating the one monarch in Thedas willing to offer them refuge by handing Redcliff to Tevinter.

 

4-Attacking the Inquisition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[IanPolaris]

My responses in bold:

 

 

 

There is a difference between not trusting someone who has power and activelly doing one's best to antagonize said powerful person.

A is wise, B is stupid. Fiona chose B.

 

What smart decisions have we ever seen Fiona taking in her position of First Enchanter?

 

Again you are completely slanting the discussion.  "Smart" or "Wise" in your world is "does it agree with you".  That is not the case.  You can disagree with a decision without it being ipso facto stupid.  I will explain in detail below.

 

 

1-Calling for a vote of independence when the mage leadership is surrounded by hundreds of thousands of non-mages, including Templars, Soldiers, Chevaliers, Bards, etc.

 

2-Declaring independence when, from what we can tell, mages had no valuable resources, no allies, no spy network, no blackmail material, no infrastructure and not even an actual alternative to the Circle to present to the world. Nothing but what they could carry and their own magical power.

Which is unthinkable considering that Fiona is an elven mage and also the mother of Ferelden's king. Can you spell blackmail?

 

If not then, when?  After the Chantry almost lost the circles after the fifth blight (see Dragon Age Awakenings), the Chantry did their level best to DISBAND the College of Enchanters and keep such a vote from taking place again.  Now given the events of Kirkwall, given the Chantries manifest unwillingness to protect the circles from the Templars even when the Templars were in the wrong. And finally given Lamberts willingness to resort to violence against the circles in defiance of the Divine...and the Divine's unwillingness to take again, then the Mages are put into a corner.  Under those conditions, calling for a debate and vote on Independance is reasonable since you have no faith in any other option.  I note that before Lambert's rash and illegal bloodshed, there was no assurance that Fiona's motion would have even passed.

 

Just because you don't agree with Fiona's decision and don't agree with her blowing off the Divine does NOT mean it was "stupid".  It means you disagree.

 

 

3-Alienating the one monarch in Thedas willing to offer them refuge by handing Redcliff to Tevinter.

 

4-Attacking the Inquisition.

 

Yes, these ARE Derp-worthy decisions as well as showing both cowardice and character inconsistancy by Fiona against all other source material.  This is why it's character assassination.  That's particularly true when you consider that Alistair is Fiona's son (and Fiona knows this even if Alistair does not).

 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

First paragraph:  Whether we agree with Fiona's decision or not, not trusting the Divine was NOT an act of stupidity.  Fiona had every reason to say, "The hell with you" to the Divine.  It may or may not have been the best course of action in Asunder, but it wasn't a stupid decision given the circumstances.  This is in direct contrast with how she is protrayed in DAI where she IS a coward and IS stupid.  That brings me to....

 

Second Paragraph:  My point is that Fiona is being shown out of character specifically to show her and the mages in the worst possible light.  Even if you didn't agree with me on the stupidity angle, the 'cowardice' angle carries the day.  That puts the entire plotline and Bioware's writing into an extremely questionable light.  I would also add that all the prior books Fiona was seen in, while youi could argue the wisdome of some of her decisions, they weren't jaw-dropping, derp worthy decisions!  Almost every decision she makes in DAI is exactly that.  She of all people has to know what "indentured servitude" means (because she WAS a de-facto Orlesian sex-slave at the tender age of seven), and if that isn't character assassination, then what is?

I didn't say she should trust the Divine. I said she should try to make common cause with her. There's a difference. It is entirely possible to be someone's ally while not trusting them, waiting for the other shoe to drop, and trying to be ready with damage control when the shoe comes.

 

I will concede that Fiona's decisions in Asunder weren't as jaw-droppingly stupid as her decisions in Inquisition. I still think of a lot of them as not being very bright, though once **** really hits the fan I'll concede that rebellion really does become her only option. Still, for her to make dumb decisions is, in and of itself, not that unbelievable. And as for the fact that her decisions in Asunder are a lot braver than the ones in Inquisition, I think we actually agree there.

[Frybread76]

I don't hate Art Eamon  But, I realize he is a politician through and through - meaning he will further his own interests any chance he gets.  For instance, he greatly benefits with Alistair alone on the throne (after all, Alistair will need council, right?).  This is why in playthroughs in which I place an unhardened Alistair on the throne I have my Warden become chancellor!

[dragonflight288]

So....this discussion on Fiona is SOOOOO fascinating....so how about Arl Eamon eh?

[Jaison1986]

 

 

There is a difference between not trusting someone who has power and activelly doing one's best to antagonize said powerful person.

A is wise, B is stupid. Fiona chose B.

 

What smart decisions have we ever seen Fiona taking in her position of First Enchanter?

 

1-Calling for a vote of independence when the mage leadership is surrounded by hundreds of thousands of non-mages, including Templars, Soldiers, Chevaliers, Bards, etc.

 

2-Declaring independence when, from what we can tell, mages had no valuable resources, no allies, no spy network, no blackmail material, no infrastructure and not even an actual alternative to the Circle to present to the world. Nothing but what they could carry and their own magical power.

Which is unthinkable considering that Fiona is an elven mage and also the mother of Ferelden's king. Can you spell blackmail?

 

3-Alienating the one monarch in Thedas willing to offer them refuge by handing Redcliff to Tevinter.

 

4-Attacking the Inquisition.

 

 

1 - All right, maybe not the brightest idea. 

 

2 - What's the difference between declaring independance there or later? Either way, the mages are locked up in towers. They don't have the means to build alliances or resources while they're there. They would need to leave first to do that.

 

3 - Like others said, Fiona in Inquisition was OOC. The Fiona from the novels would rather fight the templars to the bitter end then hand over her people to Tevinter mages of all people. They choose to simplify her character just to make the plotline easier to write.

 

4 - Invalid point. Entirely depends on player choice.