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[Ambivalent]

Your army isn't there to besiege Denerim, it's there to kill darkspawn. And unless you're thinking of an entirely different army than I am, most of it doesn't care who rules Ferelden. (Except the Redcliffe soldiers, and they're not going to help you do this.)

 

But don't miss it. Every single of them owes us their lives, their status, their loved one's lives etc.

 

Redcliff would be in ruins if we didn't solve their problems. And yeah Isolde, Eamon, Teagan, Connor would be either possessed or dead.

Mages? Templars were waiting to wipe them all out. (Chose Templars? They would wait until got bored, probably lose their soldiers even leaders in Circle.)

Dwarves would continue in their "throne war" if we didn't point one of them and helped him. They were killing each other in streets.

Dalish? They would be butchered by Warewolves.(Warewolves? They would continue on their hunt as long as they were cursed)

 

What else?

 

Anyone except Loghain owed us at that time.

 

I'd be glad to "rant" over for minutes and slap the truth to their faces as a "not worthy" city elf. (Check Al Pacino's rants for how it could be done for example)

 

Worth enough to ask for help, even choose ruler but not for throne eh? Talk to the hand.

 

So with a "Suicide mission like Shephard talking" they could be persuaded easily. With "If you disagree then go fight your war, i quit" bluff, things will be even better.  Optional but another must have "I don't care about your shitty politics, i'm off to save Ferelden. Who's with me?"

 

Landsmeet was a totally missed opportunity to raise the DA:O from "very well done" to "masterpiece".

 

PS: When someone said to Napoleon that he wasn't noble he responded with "My nobility starts with me". No one ever heard of question asker after that, probably flee'd to some uninhabitated place. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

But don't miss it. Every single of them owes us their lives, their status, their loved one's lives etc.

 

Redcliff would be in ruins if we didn't solve their problems. And yeah Isolde, Eamon, Teagan, Connor would be either possessed or dead.

Mages? Templars were waiting to wipe them all out. (Chose Templars? They would wait until got bored, probably lose their soldiers even leaders in Circle.)

Dwarves would continue in their "throne war" if we didn't point one of them and helped him. They were killing each other in streets.

Dalish? They would be butchered by Warewolves.(Warewolves? They would continue on their hunt as long as they were cursed

Redcliffe's army is controlled by Eamon. He is not on board with this, and he is not going to be on board with this.

 

The mages are probably not interested in making waves. Don't forget they to some degree answer to the Chantry in practice if not in theory, and the Chantry would not be pleased about this. And the Templars? They absolutely answer to the Chantry.

 

The dwarves are fresh off of doing this in their home country, and they got tired of it. They aren't doing it again.

 

The Dalish would have to be complete idiots to get involved with something like this considering their status could best be described as "tolerated." The werewolves aren't even that well respected, so same problem only more so.

 

And much of the reason that most of them are coming along with you is that most of them are bound by treaty to fight the Blight. This is a distraction from that.

[Ambivalent]

And much of the reason that most of them are coming along with you is that most of them are bound by treaty to fight the Blight. This is a distraction from that.

 

Correct but what i was saying is from a guy/gal has influence to decide the ruler, persuasion to see "bright sides of messing with prophet's ashes" they could be manipulated easily. And except Redcliff guys rest don't even care, they shouldn't anyway.

 

"Oh choose the guy so we can flee to even longer distances!", "Hey i hated to be slave in Anora's rule but sure, being a 2nd class citizen to Alistair sounds cool!", "Look we live in underground, mock the outsiders and all races, we don't even care about outside world but man, Anora has the looks, choose her."

 

Not only interested in being "iron fisted dictator" anyway, i'd like to see "Do what you want, i don't care" rant, slap Alistair and remind him of "Where is your proud order now? How come you forget all that stuff and let a simple revenge possses you?", maybe  even "You disagree? Okay i quit! Screw you all guys!" and flee to somewhere else via cutscene.(Well done bad ending: After every single person died, darkspawn came for you and you died aswell. Fin.)

 

I don't like being on the rails, i don't like "this vs that" simple choices.

 

If i was a master manipulator(which i was) i could be able to slap truth to Alistair's face and persuade him to work with Loghain.(Something like "Look you may not like him but he's one of best we got. As your senior Riordan tried to say and you whined to interrupt him a few times we need everyone we can get. Our senior says so, i also have no idea about reason yet. We should learn about it more before decision. Remember that "Everyone can join, we're not judges." stuff? Remember that we have a guy who sent to kill us but now really helpful? Doesn't everybody deserves a second chance? Your first and hopefully last "I'm not a follower anymore! I also have choices!" stand is too simplistic, whiny, childish and only works against my authority. We'll bang in the ship okay?")

 

I could persuade some of the army to work for me, not that they have seen any better leader anyway. Yeah we could lose the battle, even Ferelden could be lost to Darkspawn and i'd go into history books as a "Hero possesed power and turned into greedy". And why not? Isn't Dark Ritual more dangerous than this anyway?(Another bad ending which would be good)

 

Either make me a simple person who follows orders and stuff or since you give me power of deciding so many stuff i should have that power in the end aswell. RPG game developers usually mess this stuff up. "You're hero!!1 But not that much :P"

 

So in short Landsmeet was mess, could be done really a lot better and memorable. But yeah, that's going really off topic

 

PS: Actually yeah. I want to be a companion, giggle to hero about his lover and telling him that "You're an awesome couple", make stupid stuff big problems so hero could try hard to solve these, also i won't spend a dime to items(Hero gives these for free). Let him choose whatever he wants instead of putting a impenetrable barrier in front of me. Not that my dwarf noble would care about these two weaklings(humans) fighting over a tiny meat over the bone like dogs they were

[Aeroldoth]

I can't stand Anora, or Isolde.  I was upset I couldn't throw both of them into the pit of eternal peril.  I was also upset that if you have isolde sacrifice herself for connor, people WEEP for her.  Are they crazy???  She and connor killed more people in redcliff than darkspawn could.  Anora constantly betrays you, constantly screws you over.  The fact that I wanted nothing to do with her from day 1 only made it that much worse that the game kept forcing me to help her.  I was very upset that I couldn't stabbity stab her... repeatedly.

[sylvanaerie]

I've heard of Anora betraying people, but she never did that to me. And Isolde many be annoying but she loves her son. I just feel her fawning over Teagan was questionable.

I've always felt "betray" was a bit strong for what she does.  Anora wants to be queen and feels Alistair will run the country into ruin even if he does handle the Blight because of his lack of training.  And she wants her father to live if possible.  So, if the warden says "I won't support you" or "I'll support you but Loghain has to die", she will support her father at the Landsmeet.  I don't see it so much as betrayal as supporting her father instead.  What would she be getting out of the deal where Alistair rules and Loghain dies?  I thought her characterization was wonderfully human and realistic.

 

Isolde loved her son to the detriment of a lot of innocent people who looked to their Arl/Arlessa to offer them protection.  Innocent children died because of her screw up.  Her 'love' had an unhealthy dose of shame at her own magical background and this shame was a huge part of what drove her to lie to her husband and try to hire a tutor to hide her son's magic, a conversation you can get from her after the demon is dealt with and you talk to her and Teagan in Eamon's room next to his comatose body.  I think it requires that you had to extract a promise of a reward from her prior to dealing with the demon and she gives you a staff, telling you it belonged to an ancestor (grandfather I think?).  And of course, she has to live.

[sylvanaerie]

I looked it up and it seems if you tell Loghain's soldiers you are trying to save his daughter, she will turn on you and deny it. And later apologizes. I always stand down and surrender for her safety, and I never kill Loghain and always pre-arrange a marriage between Alistair and Anora that both agree to through persuasion. I guess that's why I never saw her betrayal, but if you aren't going to save her father or help her keep the throne, I don't see why she wouldn't turn against you. I remember having a long talk with her in her room and she was really nice and even wanted to make sure I was ok with her and Alistair because of our relationship, and then she confessed about Cailan fooling around. And now we know he WAS going to marry Celene, but it was cut.

 

I can't kill Isolde. I always make the effort to go to the tower. She made mistakes and went too far with Jowan imo, since knowing him from the Magi Origin, I found torture a bit extreme, but it was all for her son and as you said, her shame. I admit for a while she was hated by me, but after 4 playthroughs, I understand her better.

 

Anora is a politician.  Of course, she seems nice it's her job.  Lady has icewater in her veins though.  I extremely doubt her 'confession' over Cailan's infidelities is anything more than a play at sympathy, though I'd believe he fooled around on her easily enough.  He's easy on the eyes and a woman in his court who fooled around with him and ended up pregnant would have been carrying a potential heir, placing her in a nice position as the mother to a prince.  And if you play a Cousland, she seems even less sincere, offering up crocodile tears for Eleanor's death.  But I don't think it can be called 'betrayal' if you never had a 'deal' with her in the first place, or thought one existed where it didn't.  

 

Don't get me wrong, I both hate and love Anora.  I found her to be one of the most interesting characters in the game.

 

And at the estate, I've done both scenarios, give up or kill the soldiers, depending on what I want to do next.  One tough fight though, Cathrien was harder than the archdemon IMO.  You should do it at least once, and you never have to announce you have Anora right next to you, just don't immediately stand down--any response other than immediate surrender triggers the fight, not just saying "Anora is here".  Oghren even gains approval if you fight your way out.  I never give Anora up because the whole point was to get her out of there in disguise.  Kind of defeats the purpose to paint a big target sign on her chest and say "Anora here!"  People persist in seeing it as 'Anora's betrayal' though.  Of course, I think Anora is lying about her father/Cauthrien's intentions as well, but it could be she ascribes a bit of truth to the "My father is out to get me" theory, whether accurate or not.

 

I always found Cauthrien's timing suspect. You only just killed Howe like 10 minutes prior to this and she's there already to arrest you, with a fully armed and prepared posse?  Surrrrrre.  Of course timeline in the game is one of it's flaws, but it could be an intentional thing too, hard to tell.

 

And I've never warmed up to Isolde after dozens of playthroughs.  The only character I hate more than her is Howe.  My canon lets her live, but I have on many occasion offered her up to the ritual on some of my harsher wardens.

[sylvanaerie]

I think she was being honest about Cailan though, despite her intentions were to make sure Alistair would be true to her. As the writers said, one thing about Anora you must remember is she's her father's daughter. And I don't call it betrayal either. It's all politics in the end, and my poor Grey Warden is caught in the middle because of Eamon and Alistair's blood, despite Grey Warden's are not supposed to get involved.

 

And yeah I think I'll give it a shot! I love a good challenge!

 

From what Loghain tells me, Anora was exaggerating and he would never kill her. He even said my running around to save her was just want she wanted because she's dramatic and it most likely pleased her greatly.

 

I never really warmed up to Isolde, but I just can't hate her like I did before. I think the only one I truly can't stand is Vaughan.

 

I believe Loghain when he says he wouldn't kill her, but Howe was a different story.  If that slimy snake could have gotten away with it, I wouldn't have put it past him.  He was probably just holding Anora till he could either figure out a way to do it quietly or pin the blame on the Wardens (or some other suitable scapegoat). Also, Cauthrien may not intend to kill Anora but all kinds of things could go wrong in that scuffle, including the queen's injury/death.  Anora was certainly playing with fire there.  

 

And yes, I believe Cailan was tomcatting around on Anora, but it also is a blatant sympathy card being played there.  Lies are so much more believable when they contain an element of truth, which is why I think some small part of Anora (though I think she was wrong) may have believed her life was in jeopardy from her father--and certainly his agents.

 

Also, both Loghain and Anora make erroneous assumptions about each other's agenda, so you have to remember to take his statements in regards to her motives with a grain of salt.  Yes, he can vouch for himself, and I have no doubt that her continued rule is uppermost in her mind, and she loves playing those kinds of games, but he will also tell you in the same conversation she will do anything for the throne and here is where he's wrong about her.  She does have a line she won't cross.  She wants her father to live.  If she knows there isn't the slightest chance she can convince you not to kill him (such as when you say "I'll support you, but he must die") she will support her father instead of you, even if doing so costs her the throne.  She sticks to her guns to the extent of refusing to marry the man who killed her father (either Alistair or HNM warden).  I am unsure if you get an option to correct his assumption about her.  

 

Even so, if you give her the throne after killing Loghain she doesn't use her position for petty revenge on the people who killed her father.  She puts Ferelden and stopping the Blight ahead of any personal grief.

 

Though my canon (a Surana Chancellor) put Alistair on the throne, I rarely have trouble with her since I usually leave Anora on the throne since Alistair doesn't want it and sticking it to Eamon is just the frosting on the cake.  I wouldn't say I hate him, but I don't trust him.

 

OMG Vaughan is my fourth most hated character in the game, though I love his voice. 

[sylvanaerie]

Well said! And I agree. I remember at the end of the game I told Loghain that Anora really loves him, and he seemed unsure of how to respond to that, but when I commented on his closeness to her, there was no doubt of his love. There was definitely a rift between them and he wasn't sure it would ever be repaired.

 

I'm one of those odd ones that looks at the picture differently regarding Howe and Loghain. Loghain did some pretty bad stuff, and blindly left Howe to his own devices, but I always saw Howe as the main villain, even if I wasn't a Cousland. Plus I've never seen a DA main villain ally with the hero. If given the option to conscript Howe, I think the outrage from players would have caused the game to implode.  I only wish Howe's showdown felt less impersonal for a Cousland.

 

Alistair surprised me! After hardening him and having him marry Anora, he turned out to be a good King that even surprised Anora. I especially love what he did for the Elder in the Denerim Alienage.

 

I know! It's Hawke, so it's hard not to like his voice. Lol

 

And is it just me, or after playing the game enough times, is Eamon starting to seem more like the one who I should have been taking down? If Teagan wouldn't have walked out and started the Civil War, things would have been a lot easier for the Wardens. It's like he was prepared for such an opportunity to arise, that when it did, he had told Teagan to take advantage of it if anything should happen to him.

 

Teagan didn't start the Civil War, though Loghain fans like to say he did.  At most it could be said Teagan stirred the pot with his outburst, he didn't light the fire under it.  Teagan was up to his armpits in undead, he couldn't fight in the Civil War.   And then he was preparing Redcliffe to deal with the darkspawn in the event the Warden couldn't find a way to save the arl.  

 

The way I look at it is:  Loghain returns from Ostagar, having lost the king, the king's men and the wardens and a sizable chunk of the army--saving a lot of men who are loyal to him.  He offers up no explanations as to what's happened, seizes the throne from Anora, and demands the Bannorn commit more men to his command.  Anyone would be asking "WTF?" which Teagan, alone among those out there, gives voice to.  Frankly, at that point I'd have had a few questions for the Teryn.  Now, I get what he's wanting, he's wanting them to rally and come to the defense of Ferelden from a pretty nasty enemy (darkspawn) though at this point he still believes it's just a large excursion, not an actual Blight.  But probably many of the nobles were afraid he was staging a coup, would abandon them and/or their men as well and seize complete control of the country without having anyone oppose him.  

 

At the Landsmeet with the Warden, several of the nobles are still asking 'what happened in Ostagar'--Arl Bryland for one.  Which evidences Loghain's lack of forthcoming about the events there even after all that time.

 

The problem here is no one is taking the Blight as seriously as they should be because no one believes it's a Blight.  Loghain understands the weight of the urgency because he saw the overwhelming numbers, but even he doesn't realize the extent of the problem facing them.

 

Loghain's biggest problem in this situation is, as a statesman, he sucks.  He really doesn't know how to deal with the nobility.  He is treating them like his soldiers expecting them to obey without question.  That won't work on these people.  He should have left dealing with them up to Anora.  She's good at it, she's well liked, and the nobles would have gotten behind her.  Or if he'd even bothered to explain Ostagar.  I consider that situation to be a perfect trifecta of stupid from Loghain (for underestimating the enemy), for Cailan (for being a moronic gloryhound) and Duncan (for not telling at least Loghain and Cailan exactly why he knew that it was a Blight).  It isn't all Loghain's fault, but he persists in slandering the wardens for it, which no one believes, adding fuel to the fire already starting to blaze out of control.  

 

Teagan is loyal to Eamon, his archtype is "loyal brother", but his toolset notes specifically state he's one of the 'few honorable men in Ferelden'.  He's the only one genuinely concerned about the people in Redcliffe, the only Guerrin who expresses joy/relief at Alistair's safe return.  He speaks disparagingly of the situation (the Civil War) in Ferelden.  If Eamon told him "Stir up trouble in the Landsmeet if I'm out of commission", Teagan would have laughed in his face--he hates politics, and was only there because Eamon wasn't.  Most of his trips to Denerim were to visit Cailan (his codex says he would go on hunting trips with his nephew).  Eamon didn't expect to be out of commission, he was poisoned, something he couldn't have foreseen, so such orders wouldn't have been given.  Teagan didn't even know he was sick till he arrived in Redcliffe to find the castle closed off and undead attacking the village every night.  

 

I'm content to dislike Eamon for the things I feel he did/could have done, but getting Teagan to foment revolt wouldn't have been one of them.  Even Eamon suggests you may have to ally with Loghain to get the job done, and if he (who was poisoned by the man) was willing to put that aside to save Ferelden, I highly doubt he would have fomented a rebellion in the middle of the Blight.  After, I could totally see him using Alistair as a pawn to cause Anora trouble, (and strongly suspected in DA2 when Teagan comes to retrieve a drunken Alistair that's what was going to happen in Inquisition).  But either they never intended it or it was left open for the idea, but was never implemented.  *Sigh* Oh, well, would have been interesting to see what, if anything, came of it.

 

I'd say I blame the Redcliffe situation in equal parts of Isolde (for lying to her husband), Jowan (for the actual deed) and Loghain (for manipulating the situation in the first place).  And the Civil War, that was Loghain's and the rebellious nobles' doing.  I'm fairly sure a lot of that crap was them (the rebellious nobles) trying to seize what they could in the power vacuum that existed after Cailan the Gloryhound died with no heir, the big doofus.  Some of them may have been those who felt they had a legitimate gripe against Loghain--although in the midst of a Blight is certainly not the time to be having it.  

[sylvanaerie]

It was a rumor in-game if I recall that Teagan walking out was the start of it, so I assumed it was canon, but I never saw Teagan as a shifty politician, just someone who loves his brother and country, so I was concerned Eamon took advantage of that. I did note that Eamon considered an alliance too, but I think what baffled me is his need to have Alistair on the throne. Someone who until we harden him, is not a good choice during a very unsteady situation that Loghain has worsened greatly. I never felt Anora was a bad Queen, but ruling alone wouldn't make Fereldan stronger, so I always saw the best outcome was marrying the two. Having Alistair take the throne and lock her up would really feel unstable. Even marrying your Warden. Bryce was considered a possibility for King, but was his son/daughter experienced enough? I feel that Eamon should have thought things through a bit more with his plans for Alistair. I'm glad he at least accepted the marriage I arranged, though he wasn't too pleased.

 

You can tell that Loghain knew he messed up, and messed up BIG! He failed at his plan, and like you said, because he's not suited for that job and treating the people like soldiers was a bad idea. I doubt he even wanted to remain King. It was all just to keep Orlais from coming in and to stop the Darkspawn, though I think Orlais came first to him despite how obvious it was that the Archdemon was the bigger threat. He's a terrible ruler. He let his emotions blind him and his past haunt him and it left him with one mess after another, and he sunk the lowest when he sold the elves. 

 

I am a fan of Loghain's, but I never read the books and I only liked him based on what I saw in-game. I never felt he was innocent, but I never felt death was the answer either during such an unstable time. I think an option to jail him and decide his fate later should have been a 3rd choice. I like him for doing the right thing in the end when I spare him, and for seeing a side to him I couldn't see through the whole game, but even before that, I never truly saw him as a bad guy, just a messed up idiot. He can't justify what he's done, but he can at least make up for it and the irony of sparing him is he ends up working in Orlais. Lol

Eamon's desire to put Alistair on the throne is a combination of wanting a man he can manipulate and rule behind the throne (I imagine he's got a few surprises in store if Alistair is hardened), and a continuity of the Theirin bloodline.  Eamon is a Traditionalist and that was one motivation driving him to make Cailan put Anora aside and marry Celene (blaming the woman for the infertility issues seems to have been a pretty common thing among nobles in olden days).  Right or wrong, I won't debate Anora's fertility since nothing supports her or Cailan being able to conceive.  And the point is kind of moot since there was no heir from their 5 year union.

 

While I agree, the best solution for Ferelden is to have (hardened) Alistair + Anora ruling after the Blight, I just can't do that to them.  Their strengths complement each other very well, and it ensures not only stability, for Eamon is left without a puppet on the throne, or a bastard child he can cause trouble with later, and continuity of rulership.  A capable, intelligent queen who ruled beside the former king and a competent, Theirin with the 'common man's touch' to continue Calanhad's bloodline, something a lot of people gave their lives, hearts and blood to restore during the war against Orlais.  Sadly, on a personal level it sucks.  Neither one of them even barely likes the other, and bad enough for Alistair who never wanted this, but he will be reminded on a daily basis of the man he despises every time he looks at Anora, whether you kill Loghain or not.  So, I try to make my pixel people as happy as I can make them and leave both single.  Though I have also married both with my Cousland, I agree that solution is not optimal as warden fertility issues jeopardize the whole 'heir' situation, although the HNM + Anora seems to lead to a "golden age" for Ferelden following the Blight--and is my favorite ending to the game.  If I put Alistair on the throne, I have my warden remain in Denerim as his Chancellor, sending Eamon back home to Redcliffe.  If Anora is there, usually my warden has romanced Alistair, so the two of them run off to do some 'righteous Grey Wardening' together.   She has the chops to stand up to Eamon and tell him get stuffed, and hardly needs my warden as an adviser.

 

It's a pity the game doesn't give a 3rd option to lock Loghain away, I would have been happy to take that.  That death in front of his child is the only thing I disliked about killing Loghain.  By the time the Landsmeet is all over, Loghain seems as if the weight of the world has been lifted from his shoulders, because he knows (even if he won't admit aloud) he couldn't handle the mess that got created, and the warden is someone (he hopes) who can.  I don't think he even wanted to be 'the guy in charge'.  He was just doing it to protect Anora and felt no one else could handle the situation as well as he could.  He should have had more faith in his daughter and the warden, but he was too caught up in the past to see the present situation clearly.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

And I've never warmed up to Isolde after dozens of playthroughs.  The only character I hate more than her is Howe.  My canon lets her live, but I have on many occasion offered her up to the ritual on some of my harsher wardens.

I actually had one of my nicer Wardens kill Isolde. Mostly because this was my first Warden and I (and he) had no idea that the Circle Tower thing wasn't a death sentence for all concerned. (I had similar concerns about trusting Jowan, but was planning to load if he screwed me over.)

[Mike3207]

Yes, Anora really seems to like the male Cousland. I never get that feeling with Alistair, as she won't won't even hold his hand at the coronation. The Awakening cameo the male Cousland has with Anora is really nice as well. The Loghain conversation he has with the male Cousland about wanting to see some children is something everyone should experience at least once, even if it's only on YouTube.

[sylvanaerie]

Ah yes I suspected that myself. Eamon was always the biggest puzzle to me, but your POV helped greatly regarding those issues.

 

HMN and Anora is practically canon if you want a happy ending. The lady Wardens either kick one or the other off the throne or force them together, or get married and can't produce an heir, so that's why I try to keep Alistair and Anora together. It seems to work out as time goes on, but for people who never played the other games or follow the epilogue, it just comes across as cruel at first, especially if you've romanced Alistair. In the end I find that far more difficult to find a happy solution to than who will rule Orlais in DAI.

 

Oh yes, that's what I said too about Loghain. But fan or not, if the option to lock him up and judge him later was offered, it would be the more logical choice and suited better to my Warden's ways. Many people argue that a HN has every right to want to kill Loghain because he teamed up with Howe, who murdered your family, but if they can't see past Loghain not directly ordering the slaughter, but not stopping Howe either, they should at least think about Anora. You saw your father lying in a pool of his blood, dying, and now you have made another child see their parent die, and splattered them with his blood? I can't do it. I will not sink to Howe's level, vengeance or not.

Actually this is the only reason I was finally able to spare Loghain myself.  I had to RP my Cousland boy was suffering a massive case of PTSD and had trouble trusting anyone after the Origin.  So in that one, Zevran died--that hurt more than any other death I've seen in game except for Dog's, I never got Shale (her quest bugged and I couldn't get to Honnleath at all), kept Morrigan at arm's length (at least till toward the end when he got her Flemeth's book--was kind of hard NOT to get close to her).  The only companions I felt he truly grew close to were Ser Gilmore (I had the mod), Leliana (romanced and religious--my boy was an Andrastian) and Wynne (for her motherly ways and compassion).  And of course his faithful Dog.  He couldn't do to Anora what was done to him, and because i had to keep Alistair at arm's length as well so I could RP Roland had a "wtf is wrong with you?" moment when Alistair had his fit--seeing it as 'coming from out of left field' Alistair left to become a drunk in the Free Marches since I never got a chance to harden him (approval wasn't high enough to go see his sister) and he refused to marry Anora (he has to be hardened if you want him to marry her and spare Loghain).  This was the game I played just before DA2's release so I'd have at least one 'drunken Alistair' cameo.

 

While the Cousland has motivation for wanting Loghain's blood, I always felt the City Elf had a more personal beef with him, seeing as he sold the CE's family/friends to Tevinter blood mages.  And I had yet to play dwarves beyond the origin (who I made female because I don't like male dwarf looks, and my females always romance Alistair).  So, a grieving male Cousland was the only option open to me to try, and he worked .

 

So keeping Loghain alive was more for Anora's sake than Loghain's since he seems even more morose you made him live to deal with all that mess he created.  To me that seems a worse fate--especially knowing he ends up in Orlais.  However his response to "Nightmare" in Inquisition was the best of the three featured 'warden companions' you can get and so worth doing at least once.

 

Roland ended up staying in the Grey Wardens, he really wasn't king material and left Denerim with Leliana 'to go traveling'.  Loghain survived too, doing the deed with Morrigan, but i did all three possible endings (Redeemer, DR and US) to see stuff I hadn't before.  (My other US's were with Alistair as king) Anora's eulogy is kind of nice, but Leliana's fate with a dead warden love was too dark for me to keep that one.

[sylvanaerie]

Oh wow that's quite a story! I feel for your Cousland! 

 

Yes! Unless I play a goody goody elf who has a big forgiving heart (nearly impossible for elves with what they suffer), a CE has the most reason to kill Loghain. That's where RPing can be really fun! Or for fans of Loghain, play a CE, and just have him die in the US. 

 

And yeah, Loghain's reactions to the Nightmare were my fav! As well as his reaction if the Inquisitor inquires if he's the same Loghain. He's lived in his own personal hell by choice.

 

Leliana and a romanced Warden can be so damn sweet in DAI if he/she lives! Surprisingly same with Morrigan.

 

I have to admit the war table mission with Teagan took me back a bit. He was very hardened as the Arl, and Connor's fate was so depressing.

 

Responsibility does that to some folks, especially those who care too deeply (like Teagan and Connor), and probably why Teagan avoided politics previously.  I imagine after the Blight (if he's still alive) Eamon retired to more favorable climes, maybe north, along the seacoast, as he was getting on in years for the times.  Which meant Teagan went from a small holding like Rainesfere, to one of the most influential arlings in the country.  While I feel he's up to the task, he probably feels the weight of that responsibility keenly considering how he seemed during the siege on the town.  And poor Connor, it's one reason I side with mages even if I dislike Fiona.  I just can't leave him to that fate, not after my Surana went to so much trouble to help the plucky little fellow.  What he did weighs so much on his young mind and I kind of wish he hadn't figured out what happened as he got older  .

 

I must say i really appreciate this discussion we've been having.  Usually I get pretty miffed thinking about Loghain (too much like my own father, I think) and end  up getting "energetic" in my discussions on the boards, but you're very civil and smart about him, which has made this discussion very pleasurable for me, and allowed me to keep my head too.  I just want to say "thanks for that, Mlady".

[Aren]

Yes, Anora really seems to like the male Cousland.

of course is the hero of the kingdom, haunted by both lady and lords.

[Aren]

Anyway i believe that the absence for an option to lock Loghain is really missed in DAO,death penality with the opposite factions as judges

 doesn't seem to be so fair.

everything is dominated by emotions rather than logic.

I would have loved if Riordan would have forced the right of Conscription.