105 réponses à ce sujet

[ImaginaryMatter]

As are all the bosses in the series. Saren is weaker than Kai Leng if you play an Adept or an Engineer. You can toss him around or make him stop attacking you conpletely. Kai Leng at least has minions.
That he poses almost no threat to you is a testament to your skill as a player, not his weakness. I died three times when fighting him on my first run so don't tell me he's harmless. The only section I have died more was the final stand during Priority:Earth.

 

To be fair Saren was fought in ME1 with ME1's different play mechanics (a biotic can toss almost anything in that game). Saren also had a character. Meanwhile Kai Leng's only attribute is that he's supposed to be the 'anti-Shepard', an attribute which is undermined by his weak and often silly combat mechanics.

 

As for playing him I believe the general consensus is that he is weak. He spends so much time flipping around and crouching it's more like target range practice than an actual fight. Even if he manages to get close to Shepard he's easily beaten in melee because the standard melee attack staggers him. He's basically a pseudo, subpar Phantom.

[Vazgen]

To be fair Saren was fought in ME1 with ME1's different play mechanics (a biotic can toss almost anything in that game). Saren also had a character. Meanwhile Kai Leng's only attribute is that he's supposed to be the 'anti-Shepard', an attribute which is undermined by his weak and often silly combat mechanics.

As for playing him I believe the general consensus is that he is weak. He spends so much time flipping around and crouching it's more like target range practice than an actual fight. Even if he manages to get close to Shepard he's easily beaten in melee because the standard melee attack staggers him. He's basically a pseudo, subpar Phantom.

Sorry if this comes out as rude but I'm done discussing this. You can toss Kai Leng around with Lash power the same way you can do with Saren using Lift, Throw and Singularity. Saren is definitely a more interesting character personality-wise but fighting him was not as challenging as fighting Kai Leng simply because KL has minions which include Phantoms. I never viewed Kai Leng as 'anti Shepard', for me TIM filled that role.

[Dale]

There is this “cultural” thing I’ve observed in my world travels.  In short, it says “you may have superior weapons – but I’m far superior to you in thought, behavior, customs, culture, and control – whereas you are just another high-tech cave man”.  

 

You might have seen a WW2 video clip of Yamamoto (I think) climbing into his Zero fighter plane and carefully stashing his samurai sword to the side.   Uhhh – what good is THAT in an air-to-air combat?  

 

In regard to that time of WW2, it would be “politically incorrect” for me to elaborate the final outcome.

 

Well, as Aria said “we all have our delusions, don’t we?”

[themikefest]

You might have seen a WW2 video clip of Yamamoto (I think) climbing into his Zero fighter plane and carefully stashing his samurai sword to the side.   Uhhh – what good is THAT in an air-to-air combat?  

 

In regard to that time of WW2, it would be “politically incorrect” for me to elaborate the final outcome.

 

Its possible that if he gets shot down, ends up in enemy terroritory and survives, he would use his weapon and whatever ammo for it, and once he ran out he would resort to using his sword in a last ditch effort to fight the enemy to prevent being captured. Or it could be symbolic to him having his sword with him when flying.

[Dale]

Or it could be symbolic to him having his sword with him when flying.

Yes -- exactly.

In KL situation though, I don't think it is symbolic.

[Han Shot First]

 

 

There is in-universe reason to keep a melee weapon - shields. Shields can stop bullets from firearms but can't stop melee attacks. I think it was specifically mentioned at some point in one of the books (Ascension, if I'm not mistaken). Notice how Phantoms can kill you in one hit with full shields and health. 

He has a "weapon" too, the one he shoots from his palm (which is more damaging than a conventional firearm but has lower rate of fire). He also have a shield that can block bullets. With those abilities and his speed (which is quite fast as seen on Cerberus HQ) he can be more effective in close combat than in long-range shootouts.

I don't remember whether he had a sword or not in the Retribution.

 

 

I still think the Omni tool blade makes much more sense. 

 

"The most common melee design is the "omni-blade," a disposable silicon-carbide weapon flash-forged by the tool's mini-fabricator. The transparent, nearly diamond-hard blade is created and suspended in a mass effect field safely away from the user's skin. Warning lights illuminate the field so the searing-hot blade only burns what it is intended to: the opponent."

 

Omni tools

 

Given the description of omni tool blades in the lore, they should be much more capable of piercing armor than a traditional sword. Of course Thane isn't armored, but Kai Leng should be expecting to encounter armored opponents like Shepard, C-Sec, or military personnel on the Citadel.

[Vazgen]

 

I still think the Omni tool blade makes much more sense. 

 

"The most common melee design is the "omni-blade," a disposable silicon-carbide weapon flash-forged by the tool's mini-fabricator. The transparent, nearly diamond-hard blade is created and suspended in a mass effect field safely away from the user's skin. Warning lights illuminate the field so the searing-hot blade only burns what it is intended to: the opponent."

 

Omni tools

 

Given the description of omni tool blades in the lore, they should be much more capable of piercing armor than a traditional sword. Of course Thane isn't armored, but Kai Leng should be expecting to encounter armored opponents like Shepard, C-Sec, or military personnel on the Citadel.

I think his sword is quite capable at piercing armor (seen it myself ). Just because it looks traditional doesn't mean it's from a museum, Cerberus probably uses specific metals to craft Phantom swords. No idea how Shepard breaks it with one punch, it defies any logic, I can't see any metal breaking that way especially in the air like in that scene. The rule of cool in action. I don't use the interrupt these days, makes the scene more realistic

[themikefest]

Yes the scene with Shepard breaking the sword with his/her forearm is very unlikely if not impossible, having a sword in hand can be knocked away whereas an omniblade can't be.

[Iakus]

 

I still think the Omni tool blade makes much more sense. 

 

"The most common melee design is the "omni-blade," a disposable silicon-carbide weapon flash-forged by the tool's mini-fabricator. The transparent, nearly diamond-hard blade is created and suspended in a mass effect field safely away from the user's skin. Warning lights illuminate the field so the searing-hot blade only burns what it is intended to: the opponent."

 

Omni tools

 

Given the description of omni tool blades in the lore, they should be much more capable of piercing armor than a traditional sword. Of course Thane isn't armored, but Kai Leng should be expecting to encounter armored opponents like Shepard, C-Sec, or military personnel on the Citadel.

And if the omnitool is damaged or sabotaged?

 

And in any case, a 23rd century sword is liekly to be forged out of stronger materials than mere steel.

 

I wonder is Silaris makes blades as well as armor?

[Farangbaa]

I think his sword is quite capable at piercing armor (seen it myself ). Just because it looks traditional doesn't mean it's from a museum, Cerberus probably uses specific metals to craft Phantom swords. No idea how Shepard breaks it with one punch, it defies any logic, I can't see any metal breaking that way especially in the air like in that scene. The rule of cool in action. I don't use the interrupt these days, makes the scene more realistic

 

http://masseffect.wi...#Armor_Upgrades

 

His skeleton, skin and muscles are not that of a normal human being.

[Vazgen]

http://masseffect.wi...#Armor_Upgrades

 

His skeleton, skin and muscles are not that of a normal human being.

Well, there is that. I still think that a powerful strike would've deflected the blade or knock it out of KL's hands, not break it, assuming the blade is worth something. Unless Shepard is THAT strong which raises a question why does he even bother with guns. One such punch and KL will be dead

[Farangbaa]

Well, there is that. I still think that a powerful strike would've deflected the blade or knock it out of KL's hands, not break it, assuming the blade is worth something. Unless Shepard is THAT strong which raises a question why does he even bother with guns. One such punch and KL will be dead

 

Bear in mind that Kai Leng is also heavily augmented... we're not talking 2 normal human beings here, but 2 transhumans.

[Obadiah]

I always liked the Kai Leng vs Thane confrontation.



The way I read that scene, it was two highly trained martial artists that recognize each other, and realize that the standard "Shoot him!" tactic is just not going to work. And so they engage in a dance that really only the two of them fully understand. Thane charges at the end because he knows shooting is pointless, and retreating for cover will give Kai Leng a split second of initiative that he cannot be allowed to have.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Ah, yes, the omni-blade. According to "lore" (in air quotes), they existed for as long as omni-tools, but they were never used until the reaper war. Funny about that. It's a rule of cool thing so that Shepard could do the scene with Kai Leng at the end of Cronos Station. I don't pay MEU lore much attention since the writers were winging it most of the time.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Ah, yes, the omni-blade. According to "lore" (in air quotes), they existed for as long as omni-tools, but they were never used until the reaper war. Funny about that. It's a rule of cool thing so that Shepard could do the scene with Kai Leng at the end of Cronos Station. I don't pay MEU lore much attention since the writers were winging it most of the time.

 

The omni-stuff got a little far fetched as the series went on (is this Halo?). I blame LotSB.

[sr2josh]

Kunt Leng had the Phantom's bubble of denial. 

A Reegar Carbine cuts through that bubble like a hot knife through butter.  Phantoms were a pushover in multiplayer with that upgraded gun.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

I always liked the Kai Leng vs Thane confrontation.

The way I read that scene, it was two highly trained martial artists that recognize each other, and realize that the standard "Shoot him!" tactic is just not going to work. And so they engage in a dance that really only the two of them fully understand. Thane charges at the end because he knows shooting is pointless, and retreating for cover will give Kai Leng a split second of initiative that he cannot be allowed to have.

Exactly why would shooting the other guy who doesn't have a gun not work? And exactly why would those three other heavily armed soldiers standing ten feet away not shoot either? I have Garrus there. He has overload. Overload his shields and shoot him once in the head. Martial arts lose to guns. 

[TheMyron]

@Psychevore

 

Ooh,... Jack is your chick?

[TheMyron]

When Kai Leng slumped dead; I didn't get that triumphant feeling* that I get with most boss villains; I simply said, "Finally!".

 

 

*Same thing with Vasir; I was depressed with her death.

 

P.S. The whole trilogy needs to be remade simultaneously, with all three (or more) games equal in virtually every way; story complexity (that includes conversation mode and the dialogue wheel) like that of ME1, and most (not all) of the combat mechanics of ME3, etc..

[Farangbaa]

@Psychevore

 

Ooh,... Jack is your chick?

 

?

 

What?

 

Had to read all the way back, but you mean the group pic She was in that trilogy run. The romance is horrible in ME2, feel way too rapey.

[TheMyron]

Rapey? How? Jack's "special moment" is the only non-sexual one; which I find to be romantic, realistic, and very sweet.

 

P.S. How do you make the previous person's comment appear on your reply? The Quote button doesn't seem to work.

[Farangbaa]

Rapey? How? Jack's "special moment" is the only non-sexual one; which I find to be romantic, realistic, and very sweet.

 

P.S. How do you make the previous person's comment appear on your reply? The Quote button doesn't seem to work.

 

She keeps telling you 'no' in a thousand ways, but you just keep going ultimately ending in 'your trauma is unimpressive'.

 

what the... damn.

[in it for the lolz]

Shepard and Thane are indeed dumb.

 

So send in this guy to deal with Kai Lame!  

[TheRealJayDee]

I always liked the Kai Leng vs Thane confrontation.

[picture]

The way I read that scene, it was two highly trained martial artists that recognize each other, and realize that the standard "Shoot him!" tactic is just not going to work. And so they engage in a dance that really only the two of them fully understand. Thane charges at the end because he knows shooting is pointless, and retreating for cover will give Kai Leng a split second of initiative that he cannot be allowed to have.

 

I can agree that that is how the scene was likely intended to be read, and that scenario by itself had the potential to be really cool. Sadly there wasn't much left of it after it was put in the context of the actual scene. In that context there is no real indication that "shooting is pointless", and the writers did not do a good job at explaining why the drastically weakened, terminally ill character with the gun should decide to engage his opponent in melee combat. And it's not a straight 'two martial artists face each other' scenario anyways, given that one of them happens to have two highly trained friends with guns and/or tech abilities and/or biotic abilities with him, who the game did not at all bother to occupy otherwise during the fight.

 

On paper the concept of Kai Leng might have been a really good thing, but they botched the execution of it so spectacularly and completely that looking back on the character and his development over the course of the books and the game the only positive things I see are his portrayal in the first book and the sheer scope of focused creativity that went into mocking his appearances after that.

[mybudgee]

As soon as Biower saw all the adoration Krios received in ME2, he was doomed to die in ME3...