161 réponses à ce sujet

[Willowhugger]

At heart, the power which makes the Warden and Hawke so great and powerful is their "Edge of Tomorrow" abilities.

Like Tom Cruise's character, they can reload and do it right.

Until they get it right.

 

:-)

[TheKomandorShepard]

Yes, really.

And that from person that told me that my warden killing fort was my headcanon despite that being part of the game.

[Muspade]

And that from person that told me that my warden killing fort was my headcanon despite that being part of the game.

I find your lack of perception disturbing.

[TTTX]

The PC isn't immune, though.

He can die.

 

No one thinks this, though.

Because no one likes to consider, "The Warden was killed by Hurlocks" as his canonical playthrough.

Of course he can, but the game won't allow you to be game over so to speak.

 

Now that the Warden and Hawke are done being PC's they can actually die for real.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I find your lack of perception disturbing.

Rly because that is what you have said it is my headcanon you don't seem to know what headcanon is.

It would be headcanon if i said that the warden went to certain castle and slained 1000 knights in it as it wasn't part of the game...

[TTTX]

I find your lack of perception disturbing.

that's how he is.

 

I prefer to not go into discussion with him to much, because they go nowhere.

[Muspade]

Rly because that is what you have said it is my headcanon you don't seem to know what headcanon is.

It would be headcanon if i said that the warden went to certain castle and slained 1000 knights in it as it wasn't part of the game...

 

I'm well aware what head canon is. Are you? 

 

that's how he is.

 

I prefer to not go into discussion with him to much, because they go nowhere.

 

I've just recently arrived. This is a lesson learned on my part.

[TTTX]

I've just recently arrived. This is a lesson learned on my part.

At least you learned it early, which is good.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I'm well aware what head canon is. Are you? 

 

Yes im and headcanon isn't certainly something is in the game and not something that you don't want to acknowledge because it is convenient.

As i said it is part of the game so by that it isn't headcanon. 

[animedreamer]

Since all her companions and NPC mooks died, I'd say my Warden pretty much fought Urthemiel by herself. 

this is surprisingly true from a game play mechanic point of view for me. Whenever we get to that final battle, everyone but me usually dies at some point, no matter what i do no matter how much attention i try to pay to everyone elses health and tactics used, im usually the last one standing having to face the Archdemon solo. That's why i didn't even know about Alistair or Loghain offering to kill the Archdemon and taking the fatal blow, because they were always dead when it was time to do it.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Yes im and headcanon isn't certainly something is in the game and not something that you don't want to acknowledge because it is convenient.

As i said it is part of the game so by that it isn't headcanon. 

If it is not acknoweldged by the game story (and to an even greater extent the Keep) then it is not acknowledged as lore.

 

For instance: You could create a mage with MINIMUM magic and willpower, and dump all his additional stat points into STR, which would make him the strongest character in the game. However, the game will not acknowledge this and he will till be treated as a magical prodginy, despite not having any more magical talent than a Deep Stalker (statwise talking).

 

This is an example of a quirky mechanic of the game, that you can use to have FUN with the GAME. However the story still unfolds a certain way, despite how you played it. So yes, the example I gave, would be treated as headcanon and NOT ever be referenced in the future installments of the game.

[animedreamer]

This is one of the aspects that A LOT of people fail to understand. Trust me... I once had to explain to a person that just because in the gameplay we could survive it, doesn't mean storywise we could. A lowly Hurlock blade swung at an exposed neck of the Warden would kill him just as readily as the bite of a High Dragon.

 

That;s not the same as the Warden actively defending against that though. In the Tower of Ishal Alistair and the Warden were pretty much taken off guard. Not to mention the Story calls for them to be dropped at that point, so how is that any stronger evidence for the frailty of Warden when you have no control over it? You could have Missile Deflection 400 at that point and if the story says this happens it happens. Cutscenes also says that Flemeth could crush an entire Darkspawn squad that would have surely killed Hawke and his/her family, yet The Warden took down flemeth with more or less the same amount of people to help or not. So is that evidence that the Warden > Hawke? Cause Hawke had to get saved by Flemeth while the Warden would have thrashed Flemeth. Flemeth made it sound like beating the Ogre was a huge feat, The Warden also defeated an Ogre around the same time.

[EmperorSahlertz]

That;s not the same as the Warden actively defending against that though. In the Tower of Ishal Alistair and the Warden were pretty much taken off guard. Not to mention the Story calls for them to be dropped at that point, so how is that any stronger evidence for the frailty of Warden when you have no control over it? You could have Missile Deflection 400 at that point and if the story says this happens it happens. Cutscenes also says that Flemeth could crush an entire Darkspawn squad that would have surely killed Hawke and his/her family, yet The Warden took down flemeth with more or less the same amount of people to help or not. So is that evidence that the Warden > Hawke? Cause Hawke had to get saved by Flemeth while the Warden would have thrashed Flemeth. Flemeth made it sound like beating the Ogre was a huge feat, The Warden also defeated an Ogre around the same time.

No.... It is evidence of the game being... A game.... Stats and circumstance is MEANINGLESS in comparison to the story. The Warden WILL die if a Hurlock cuts his throat. However the Warden is such a skilled combatant that it is unlikely to happen. Nevertheless he remains a mortal man, and as such a subject to the frailty of life, just like everybody else.

 

And YES defeating an Ogre IS a great feat storywise. You as a human would weigh in at between 75kg - 95kg judged on the build of Hawke. An Ogre would weigh in at a couple of tonnes 2-3 at least. Taking sucha beast down IS a great feat.

[Reaverwind]

this is surprisingly true from a game play mechanic point of view for me. Whenever we get to that final battle, everyone but me usually dies at some point, no matter what i do no matter how much attention i try to pay to everyone elses health and tactics used, im usually the last one standing having to face the Archdemon solo. That's why i didn't even know about Alistair or Loghain offering to kill the Archdemon and taking the fatal blow, because they were always dead when it was time to do it.

 

I'd wished I had known that I didn't need to leave Alistair behind at all to prevent that cutscene.

[animedreamer]

The feats argument is kind of superfluous in the fact that we actually have a game system which tells us how powerful they are on a mathematical level.

 

The Warden may kill an Archdemon at 20th level but Hawke could do it the same.

 

Hawke wasn't there, though, so it's a moot point.

 

This isn't really exactly even, as you are likely lv 23 if you do all the DLC by the point you fight or beat the Archdemon, Hawke generally isn't that lv by end game if you do all the DLC, they're usually lv 26 at best i believe. Still if you are using level as a factor then it should be noted you could probably real lv 37 or higher with the Warden, as my warden is lv 34 in the beginning of the Golems of Amgarrak, and still hadn't done witch hunt yet.

[AlanC9]

this is surprisingly true from a game play mechanic point of view for me. Whenever we get to that final battle, everyone but me usually dies at some point, no matter what i do no matter how much attention i try to pay to everyone elses health and tactics used, im usually the last one standing having to face the Archdemon solo. That's why i didn't even know about Alistair or Loghain offering to kill the Archdemon and taking the fatal blow, because they were always dead when it was time to do it.

That's weird. In every other post-battle cutscene downed companions are revived the moment the scene starts.

[animedreamer]

Well I don't trust the level system to be a good representation because hawke has a higher level cap. And hawke might have been able to do it the same but he wasn't there. I like to compare the number of high dragons they kill to determine whose better. Hawke has the one in the mines. The warden has the one at the urn, the two in awakening, and flemeth if you count her.
Edit and the arch demon even though that is not actually a high dragon

 

Also Archdemon =/= High Dragon, there are a significant number of reasons why they aren't even worth comparing. A High dragon is still an unintelligent beast, it can not lead an army, it cannot construct complex plans like a Archdemon can, the Archdemon breaths torrents of spirit damage fire, while having all the physical abilities of a high dragon. It is also nearly immortal save unless a Warden kills it, and the fight in which both Hawke and the Warden face these respective creatures is vastly different, Hawke fought a High Dragon and it only had minor help from drakes or dragonlings. The Archdemon had hordes of Various Darkspawn helping it during the final battle, and if not for your army you'd likely never reach the fiend.

[AlanC9]

Well, I guess that's the downside of being able to 'save' your game. Imagine if DAO was like the original Sonic..once you were out of lives you really were dead, and had to go all the way back to level 1. Oh and when you turned off the console..back to level 1 again..

There are achievements for that sort of thing, you know.

[animedreamer]

That's weird. In every other post-battle cutscene downed companions are revived the moment the scene starts.

 

I don't know, i once tried to get Loghain to kill himself killing the archdemon, but it didn't happen.. i ended up grabbing the sword and sacrificing myself, after that i never bothered doing the ultimate sacrifice anymore.

[Sifr]

My warden killed entire fort with soldiers solo could normal human do that? Doubt that pretty much protagonists and companions do things much more than normal human could do hell entire tower of templars was prepared for 2 abomnations max but warden went there with 4 peoples (or alone) and solved problem.As i said we can't rly talk about realism in such fiction.

 

Well companions are optional so well... 

 

In terms of Fort Drakon, you're forgetting that a normal person could do it in the same way that the Warden does, by way of attrition. Most of the fights in Fort Drakon involve simply fighting a couple of people in one room, before moving on to fight two of three soldiers in the next room. It's also easier because you retrieve your armour, traps, bombs and potions to help you.

 

You're making it sound like the Warden was fighting the entire Fort zerg-rushing them, which would cause anyone (both in-game and in real life) to die incredibly fast. The Warden escaping from Fort Drakon is more the kind of guerilla tactics from Die Hard than a straight up melee like the end of Jet Li's The One.

 

 

_{Not Pictured: Realism.}

[animedreamer]

No.... It is evidence of the game being... A game.... Stats and circumstance is MEANINGLESS in comparison to the story. The Warden WILL die if a Hurlock cuts his throat. However the Warden is such a skilled combatant that it is unlikely to happen. Nevertheless he remains a mortal man, and as such a subject to the frailty of life, just like everybody else.

 

And YES defeating an Ogre IS a great feat storywise. You as a human would weigh in at between 75kg - 95kg judged on the build of Hawke. An Ogre would weigh in at a couple of tonnes 2-3 at least. Taking sucha beast down IS a great feat.

 

You're over looking what im saying. If Hawke defeated the ogre it happened in Game play mechanics not storywise feat, least the warden get the same credit. Duncan killed a ogre with 2 to 3 hits, Now what? He was half dead when he did it. You're  saying game play stats don't factor in, but you just used the ogre example i brought up as evidence to back up story feats though it didn't happen as a story feat, Hawke only finished it as a part of the cutscene, (s)he killed it before hand using the same stats and skills afforded the play at that given time.

[animedreamer]

Everyone wants the Warden to be able to punch the Maker in the nuts and laugh it off.

They don't like accepting the Warden could get knifed in a bar brawl.

 

That would imply they aren't....perfect.

 

Now you're over exaggerating things, the original point of the thread was whether or not The Warden was to powerful to simply bring back on a returning bases considering all they had accomplished, survived and saved/destroyed. No one said The Warden was immortal, could teleport to the golden city make it pure, slap Andraste on the spiritual ass, and bro-hug the Maker. If the story calls for the Warden to get dropped it happens, no one is disputing that. In fact it happens several times through the course of their adventurers, In the Tower of Ishal, Against the Sloth Demon in Broken Circle, and again against Architect in the Silverite Mines. Stuff happens we get that, does that change the fact that the Warden posse or no killed hundreds of monsters, men, and a couple of dragons and beast? To quote a potential warden line, "I've killed hundreds in my wake, you're but a number to me." 

[EmperorSahlertz]

You're over looking what im saying. If Hawke defeated the ogre it happened in Game play mechanics not storywise feat, least the warden get the same credit. Duncan killed a ogre with 2 to 3 hits, Now what? He was half dead when he did it. You're  saying game play stats don't factor in, but you just used the ogre example i brought up as evidence to back up story feats though it didn't happen as a story feat, Hawke only finished it as a part of the cutscene, (s)he killed it before hand using the same stats and skills afforded the play at that given time.

What the **** did I just read? Honestly... What in the living daylights are you even trying to say, because you are making zero sense to me....

 

The Warden, Hawke and Duncan all killed an Ogre each. Yes? So? What is your point? No matter who does the killing, the killing of an Ogre is STILL a great feat.

[AshenEndymion]

Also Archdemon =/= High Dragon, there are a significant number of reasons why they aren't even worth comparing. A High dragon is still an unintelligent beast, it can not lead an army, it cannot construct complex plans like a Archdemon can ...

 

The Risen Andraste and her worshipers would imply otherwise.

 

High Dragons are probably like any other intelligent creature.  Meaning the intelligence displayed will vary because the intelligence of each individual dragon varies.