161 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

Unless the Warden is an Arcane Warrior.

 

Or a Spirit Archer in DA:A

 

I don't think it's just a gameplay thing. There's nothing Hawke could do that would have an answer to them.

Mage Hawke: LOL. Dispell. Paralyzing prison.

[Sifr]

The Risen Andraste and her worshipers would imply otherwise.

 

High Dragons are probably like any other intelligent creature.  Meaning the intelligence displayed will vary because the intelligence of each individual dragon varies.

 

DIdn't the Devs say that Dragons have some degree of intelligence and cunning, which we'll see in Inquisition? Even if they're not truly sapient creatures, they seem savvy enough at least enough to recognise;

 

"Hey, those nutty people down there are worshipping me, providing me with all the free food I could ever want and some of them have my kind's blood running in their veins, marking themselves as almost kin. It's probably best not to eat them".

[TheKomandorShepard]

If it is not acknoweldged by the game story (and to an even greater extent the Keep) then it is not acknowledged as lore.

 

For instance: You could create a mage with MINIMUM magic and willpower, and dump all his additional stat points into STR, which would make him the strongest character in the game. However, the game will not acknowledge this and he will till be treated as a magical prodginy, despite not having any more magical talent than a Deep Stalker (statwise talking).

 

This is an example of a quirky mechanic of the game, that you can use to have FUN with the GAME. However the story still unfolds a certain way, despite how you played it. So yes, the example I gave, would be treated as headcanon and NOT ever be referenced in the future installments of the game.

This is solution on the quest if you want refuse acknowledge as i said because simple it isn't convenient for you it is your pick but no it isn't head canon that you killed dragon in gameplay doesn't mean you didn't in story as i said it is possible route for quest and by that not headcanon because simple you don't like it doesn't mean headcanon.gosh.

 

And in fact there is in story use of stats so well...

 

 

In terms of Fort Drakon, you're forgetting that a normal person could do it in the same way that the Warden does, by way of attrition. Most of the fights in Fort Drakon involve simply fighting a couple of people in one room, before moving on to fight two of three soldiers in the next room. It's also easier because you retrieve your armour, traps, bombs and potions to help you.

 

You're making it sound like the Warden was fighting the entire Fort zerg-rushing them, which would cause anyone (both in-game and in real life) to die incredibly fast. The Warden escaping from Fort Drakon is more the kind of guerilla tactics from Die Hard than a straight up melee like the end of Jet Li's The One.

 

_{Not Pictured: Realism.}

 

To be honest i have hard time picturing entire fort waiting for the warden killing others in 1 room and going for them.

[animedreamer]

DIdn't the Devs say that Dragons have some degree of intelligence and cunning, which we'll see in Inquisition? Even if they're not truly sapient creatures, they seem savvy enough at least enough to recognise;

 

"Hey, those nutty people down there are worshipping me, providing me with all the free food I could ever want and some of them have my kind's blood running in their veins, marking themselves as almost kin. It's probably best not to eat them".

 

I've heard nothing of this, in fact all i've heard them ever claim was that Dragons in DA are big predatorial creatures.. I assume based on that much like a tiger, or any solitary predator creature. Does that mean such a creature can't be tamed or at least trained to do tricks when the right stimulation is given? The supposed risen andresta doesn't attack you in the PC version unless you blow Kogrim's horn, or on the consoles ring the gong. This implies they raised the creature to respond to certain things it hears, Kogrim also says before you fight him, that Andesta will smell their blood on you and attack you. Which means that high dragon was likely taught to attack those who have the blood of these cultist smeared on it. They've been raising that Dragon and thus likely training it since it was likely born and determined it was a female.

[animedreamer]

Okay this is what im hearing right now...

 

 

"You are using game play mechanics, that can't possibly translate into lore." 

 

Problem: Then what does happen at all? Did the Wardens origin consist of them just having a problem and never engaging anything other than scripted battles, and join Duncan? Then he or she just talked through the wilds, found 3 vials of darkspawn blood on the ground, and meet morrigan then flemeth? Come back to camp and become a warden? You see how this slippery slope works now?

 

 

"The warden is still human and can be killed like any other human (to quote morrigan) should a blade be lucky enough to find his/her heart/throat."

 

Problem: When did we get to this idea that the Warden wasn't human/elven/dwarven? being either of those things doesn't diminish their potential capabilities. Uldred had one of my favorite backhanded compliments to the Warden so long as you weren't a mage, "Your raw potential with the strength of a demon behind it, you'd be unstoppable." Whether his insight was true thats mighty high praise coming from a Pride Demon in the form of a human.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Okay this is what im hearing right now...

 

 

"You are using game play mechanics, that can't possibly translate into lore." 

 

Problem: Then what does happen at all? Did the Wardens origin consist of them just having a problem and never engaging anything other than scripted battles, and join Duncan? Then he or she just talked through the wilds, found 3 vials of darkspawn blood on the ground, and meet morrigan then flemeth? Come back to camp and become a warden? You see how this slippery slope works now?

 

 

"The warden is still human and can be killed like any other human (to quote morrigan) should a blade be lucky enough to find his/her heart/throat."

 

Problem: When did we get to this idea that the Warden wasn't human/elven/dwarven? being either of those things doesn't diminish their potential capabilities. Uldred had one of my favorite backhanded compliments to the Warden so long as you weren't a mage, "Your raw potential with the strength of a demon behind it, you'd be unstoppable." Whether his insight was true thats mighty high praise coming from a Pride Demon in the form of a human.

Okay... This is getting entirely stupid....

 

NO you cannot use gameplay mechanics as a representation of lore. NO, OF COURSE the Warden didn't jsut "magically" find three vials of Darkspawn blood. He had to go kill Darkspawn to collect this.

The POINT of story/gameplay segregation is that what GAMEPLAY depicts is only an approximation of how things went down. LOREWISE would be another matter. Imagine DA:O as a movie. The entire plot as a movie. THAT is the lore. The gameplay is only to make it interactive and fun for a gamer.

[animedreamer]

Okay... This is getting entirely stupid....

 

NO you cannot use gameplay mechanics as a representation of lore. NO, OF COURSE the Warden didn't jsut "magically" find three vials of Darkspawn blood. He had to go kill Darkspawn to collect this.

The POINT of story/gameplay segregation is that what GAMEPLAY depicts is only an approximation of how things went down. LOREWISE would be another matter. Imagine DA:O as a movie. The entire plot as a movie. THAT is the lore. The gameplay is only to make it interactive and fun for a gamer.

 

And in this example, much like many action movies, where do i separate the canonical accomplishments of said hero from, "oh that guy doesn't count toward John McClane's body count because....?" If a director can show a hero killing 1000 monsters within 2 hours, it happened in your movie regardless of anything else, this is what i don't understand about your example. Game play is just one more tool to deliver to you a way of shaping whats happening in the story. It's not not happening, the fact that they keep a record of what you've done means it's all a part of that characters personal lore. How everyone else played through said game is what makes their experience different from the next persons. In some games yes I can understand the separation of Game Mechanics from Lore, like Street Fighter where a guy stabbing you with a foot long claw hand wont kill you after the first stab or two, or that even if you did lose you have  1 or 2 more chances to turn things around to win the match. This however is a RPG, where the combat is meant to represent what can happen in the lore. Does that mean it supersedes scripted events? NO of course not. 

 

However what some of you don't seem to understand is that largely when something contradicts what happens in combat, its done so for a transitional reason. The Warden nearly died at Ostagar so that Flemeth could save you and put into work her plan for Morrigan. You got put to sleep by the Sloth Demon so that you could do the Fade sequence and defeat the Sloth Demon from within their own realm. You got captured at the Silverine Mines so that the architect could perform his experiment on you. Not because you are weak and frail, not simply because you are a run of the mill human/dwarf/elf, not because you didn't pick the right option, not because you were below the required level or skill level, but because it helps transition the story to where you needed to go next. There are a few situations where you get to employ the same thing on a more personal level but its your choice, and those are the magical murder knife scenes where you can choose to execute a potential noteworthy or powerful opponent because the plot gives you the option to end them quickly. So yes there are points where some people get axed quickly despite their abilities,  Plot > Game Play Mechanics, but separating gameplay from lore in the sense of a series like Dragon Age is wrong, since it almost always directly influences what can be considered as canon within the story. 

[LOLandStuff]

That's why there's that big ass Breach and Fade tears everywhere. Thedas just can't take so much badass. It's tearing itself apart.

I thought it was obvious.

[animedreamer]

That's why there's that big ass Breach and Fade tears everywhere. Thedas just can't take so much badass. It's tearing itself apart.

I thought it was obvious.

While this is obviously meant as a joke, it's a welcome one from all this finger wagging.

[Knight_47K]

Commander Shepard is off-doing stuff.

 

HE IS DEAD. DEAD AS DEAD CAN BE.

 

*cries*

 

Shepaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrddddd...

















Wrex!

[Celtic Latino]

I would say the Warden is above-average (or exceptional), but far from 'too powerful'. To me the Warden was mortal and fallible just like all of his/her companions. A lot of those bonuses and stats are merely gameplay devices, I don't see the Warden as some sort of mythical deity-level hero(ine). Origins told the story of one exceptional Warden who helped save the Blight, and after that story was told, the Warden's tale ended.

 

I think fans ascribe more power to the Warden than he/she really has because they're attached to Origins' story (and their player character). If anything, Hawke had more power since (s)he was the child of Malcolm and has ties with Corypheus, hinting to a powerful bloodline.

 

Regardless, their stories are done to me and I'm happy to move on with our Inquisitor. They made it pretty clear Dragon Age is not about one character. After DAI, it will be another player character.

[Dayze]

DIdn't the Devs say that Dragons have some degree of intelligence and cunning, which we'll see in Inquisition? Even if they're not truly sapient creatures, they seem savvy enough at least enough to recognise;

 

"Hey, those nutty people down there are worshipping me, providing me with all the free food I could ever want and some of them have my kind's blood running in their veins, marking themselves as almost kin. It's probably best not to eat them".

 

Yeah they are supposed to be as smart as an animal could conceivably be and still be an animal, think Monkey, Dolphin level intelligence that sort of thing......though I recall them specifically comparing them to Mabari.

 

Which is basically even more intelligent than that, considering Mabari can understand human speech to the extent that Alistair can play a joke on it by saying that it could  have been fed humans for food.  Not just specific words, commands or understand a gesture or two.  

 

So essentially a Dragon's intelligence is somewhere around Monkey-Dolphin-Mabari; more or less a small child in regards to sentience.

 

 

Back to the original thread's point.

 

I'm working under the assumption this is a warden as powerful as it could get story-line wise; it does get mentioned that Warden's have unusually high amounts of stamina.  From drinking Dragon's blood; the followers can get superhuman str. and stamina, I imagine Old God vs. High Dragon would have to be some what more impressive.  Though its also arguably a newer and less studied process so the ritual may not be as effective.  

 

That being said; its also possible to drink Wyvern's Blood on top of the Old God's blood.  You also can get a power up from sacrificing elves and drinking Avernus's potion.  I think the Baroness can also give you a power up that doesn't make it into game play mechanics.....could be wrong there, may have only offered to do so.

 

That and depending on if you choose the Cousland; isn't there some thought of Dragon's blood in their veins or some such thing?

 

 

Hawke as pointed out only gets 2 specializations while they do have their "ancestorial blood" that seems to be a big deal and do manage to defeat Corypheus.  They don't have any other "power up" type options do they?  Actually yeah; now that I think of it you can read those demonic books that end up loosing that demon in that one quest.

 

We know nothing about the Inquisitor aside from the fact that they may only get 1 specialization and its big hero uberness seems to be mainly in that they can open and close rifts or maybe just close them.

 

And while yes; the Warden is uber-skilled and could manage to kill its way through a fortress it is still ultimately mortal and could die in a bar fight.  Not likely but it "could" happen.

 

Demi-god no; uber skilled hero of legend with some superhuman stats yeah.