154 réponses à ce sujet

[andar91]

I think there's a middle ground as for what we know and don't know right now.

 

We cannot claim that skill trees from really old demos (that looked odd as well, I mean cold mixed with arcane stuff (Seeker's Swarm) and whatnot, no descriptions filled in (under Discipline, for instance), and abilities that weren't in the trees (Iron Bull had a Templar-looking ability that was nowhere in his shown trees, and we saw them all). It's very possible those have changed/been replaced. There were icons we don't know the meaning of (like the purple horns and the orange skull and the green swirly thing that aren't accounted for at all in the pic featured today (in the OP)).

 

At the same time, I do not think we can say for sure that the old stuff meant nothing. Those names and icons were there, which may indicate they are intended to be reflected in the game in some way. Maybe the orange/black skull or the green icon really is an Entropy school. Maybe mages DO get more than just 4 trees to reflect their greater range of ability. That would contradict the statement that there are 21 trees across all classes (assuming specializations are factored in), but maybe that changed.

 

We don't know. We can guess, but I still think there are way too many unanswered questions to start saying we definitively know what will be in the game. We don't know what trees will be called or what they will contain (exactly, anyway, with the possible exception of the Inferno tree assuming the Combat Video is up to date).

[EnduinRaylene]

I wouldn't hold my breath for a 5th, let a lone 6th Mage tree. Everything we've seen and heard indicates just the 4. 

[Hrungr]

Well... I'm not even sure about Entropy tbh.  I mean, the old Entropy tree has a Chain Lightning icon in the first tier, so... who knows what that means, really.  xD

 

I decided to fire off a tweet about the number of Talent Trees, so if we're lucky we may get a hint of the answer...

[UniformGreyColor]

There's only the 4 trees: Winter, Inferno, Spirit and Primal. Winter and Inferno was previously called Discipline and Discord and Primal(we don't know the final name yet) was shown as Entropy before as well, but since it doesn't appear to have any Entropic spells and only Primal ones that's what I'm calling it. Spirit tree is a mix of Spirit and Arcane abilities and we've only seen it called Spirit so I'm guessing that's what it will stay as. It would be highly surprising if there was a 5th base tree as it would totally go against everything we've seen. I wouldn't mind it, especially if it was Entropy, but it seems to be very unlikely.

 

Thanks. I should add now that it looks like, for mages at least, that it will end up being some sort of adjusted paper, rock, scissors, hand grenade trees for the ones that aren't specializations, but I really hope at least that there will not be immunities to several elements. I would like to know that I don't have to know what I'm up against at all times or at the very least that its well known in the game before we take a mission. Doesn't appear to be the case as far as I can tell. Anyone know anything about this?

[rocsage]

"Previewing"? More like REviewing old abilities from DA:O... Very minor differences here. Nothing to get excited about in my opinion. I'd rather have a preview of some of the unique abilities that Solas wields. 

flash fire is drastically different from all existing fire abilities.

I've yet to see a single-target fire spell, or one whose cc effect manifests as a mental one.

lightning bolt as well.

no electric ability to date causes hard cc or becomes stronger against the primary target among crowds.

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seems to generally favor single target dps/lockdown with emphasis on leader among enemies.

[Zelodos]

i feel like the warrior is going to be either a tank or burst damage, the mage is going to be focused on status effects and support(barrier, walls, and maybe like 1 heal spell), and the rogue will be constant damage

[EnduinRaylene]

Thanks. I should add now that it looks like, for mages at least, that it will end up being some sort of adjusted paper, rock, scissors, hand grenade trees for the ones that aren't specializations, but I really hope at least that there will not be immunities to several elements. I would like to know that I don't have to know what I'm up against at all times or at the very least that its well known in the game before we take a mission. Doesn't appear to be the case as far as I can tell. Anyone know anything about this?

We've definitely seen some immunities. Venatori don't seem very phased by Fire, but the way things look the game will be giving you enough ability points to max two base trees and an specialization by the end. So even if your fire spells don't do much to them, you should have at least another set of abilities from another tree, be it Spirit, Winter or Lightening, to hit them with. Plus we don't know if secondary effects of spells are also useless if they have an immunity to an element. So while the fire might not hurt them you still might be able to hit them with the status effect which could be useful. 

[Steelcan]

Can someone explain to me if I should break out my pitchfork and torch collection?

[Giantdeathrobot]

Didn't the warrior have 5 ''basic'' trees? Correct me if I'm wrong. So why wouldn't the Mage have 5?

[UniformGreyColor]

We've definitely seen some immunities. Venatori don't seem very phased by Fire, but the way things look the game will be giving you enough ability points to max two base trees and an specialization by the end. So even if your fire spells don't do much to them, you should have at least another set of abilities from another tree, be it Spirit, Winter or Lightening, to hit them with. Plus we don't know if secondary effects of spells are also useless if they have an immunity to an element. So while the fire might not hurt them you still might be able to hit them with the status effect which could be useful. 

 

Ok, I understand the whole spells have multiple effects thing thats possible, but I am wondering if they will be so inconsequential that they won't be worth using on an enemy with an immunity from that ability.

[andar91]

Didn't the warrior have 5 ''basic'' trees? Correct me if I'm wrong. So why wouldn't the Mage have 5?

 

The general impression has been that the Mark of the Rift ability comes from a special Inquisitor tree that has more to do with story than with anything else, and is thus not counted.

 

Or if you're counting Reaver, that's a specialization. So Iron Bull had 4 trees not counting that (we saw a lot of him in the E3 demos): Battlemaster, Vanguard, W&S, and 2H.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Can someone explain to me if I should break out my pitchfork and torch collection?

 

Yes, you should. Mages are getting the short end of the stick. Less spell schools, railroading mages to be elementalists, 8 ability in combat lock will gimp mages the most and Focus. 

 

You would think with the Breach and the Fade essentially leaking into Thedas, with Fade being one of the source of magic, the other being blood and Darkspawn taint, would be a lot more powerful and diverse, not limited to elementals and gimped by Focus. 

[Steelcan]

 

TO ARMS!

[dragondreamer]

With the 8-slot limit, the spell condensing might be for the best.  Having a bunch of individual situational support spells doesn't work well with the new limits, which was one of my concerns with it.  I still prefer the old system, but at least I won't feel as pressed for spell space as I might have.  Being able to choose spells that compliment a particular mage character's personality is another concern with limited spells, but hopefully the specializations will be diverse enough.  I really want to see the spec trees.

[Dominus]

Neat. I like the preview design... though I was already aware of the spells from way back when.

Maybe we'll get lucky later. I think DA2 had a full release of class abilities on the boards, a good while before the game launched.

[EnduinRaylene]

Yes, you should. Mages are getting the short end of the stick. Less spell schools, railroading mages to be elementalists, 8 ability in combat lock will gimp mages the most and Focus. 

 

You would think with the Breach and the Fade essentially leaking into Thedas, with Fade being one of the source of magic, the other being blood and Darkspawn taint, would be a lot more powerful and diverse, not limited to elementals and gimped by Focus. 

Yeah the only legit complaint here is being forced into offensive/elemental schools, but that could be a serious or minor issue depending on how these secondary status effects spells have work in the game. If using fire spells to inflict Fear on enemies is viable and dependable tactic on its own I won't be so unhappy about the fact that my Entropy spells aren't there anymore.

 

Other than that you're assuming BioWare instituted the 8 ability limit arbitrarily and didn't design the abilities, progression, enemies and so on around it and they'll just all operate the same as they did in DAO or DA2. As well that Focus will be hard to come by and not worth the expense that those top tier spells offer compared to the normal ones. 

 

Don't know if this will be good, or better than what we had in DAO/DA2, but I haven't seen much of anything to really cause me any kind of serious worry, let a lone discontent. 

[UniformGreyColor]

Yeah the only legit complaint here is being forced into offensive/elemental schools, but that could be a serious or minor issue depending on how these secondary status effects spells have work in the game. If using fire spells to inflict Fear on enemies is viable and dependable tactic on its own I won't be so unhappy about the fact that my Entropy spells aren't there anymore.

 

Other than that you're assuming BioWare instituted the 8 ability limit arbitrarily and didn't design the abilities, progression, enemies and so on around it and they'll just all operate the same as they did in DAO or DA2. As well that Focus will be hard to come by and not worth the expense that those top tier spells offer compared to the normal ones. 

 

Don't know if this will be good, or better than what we had in DAO/DA2, but I haven't seen much of anything to really cause me any kind of serious worry, let a lone discontent. 

 

I sure hope this doesn't mean it becomes a button masher game.

[EnduinRaylene]

I sure hope this doesn't mean it becomes a button masher game.

Doesn't appear that way so far. Mana pool is quite small, we've seen single spells drain half of it. So ability spamming is not likely a viable option, in addition to cool downs not appearing to be all that quick to begin with. Plus the apparent focus on combos would also lend itself towards more calculated use of abilities over random and excessive use.

[Rylor Tormtor]

For some reason, seeing only 4 mage spell trees seems...... wrong.

 

Well, remember, you only have 8 slots anyways.

 

ZING!

[Bayonet Hipshot]

One of the main selling points of the mage class is flexibility and choice. By this I mean magic itself is very flexible and diverse. 

 

You can accomplish something either with the manipulation of the elements, the manipulation of the spirit, the manipulation of blood, the manipulation of mind, the creation of force, the summoning of ally, the enhancement of the environment.

 

There is a reason why when you say mage, it can mean many things from wizards to sorcerers to warlocks to hedge mages to illusionists to summoners to healers to battlemages to nightblades to elementalists.

 

Wizards are the genius student, the one who studies for years to become the best. Sorcerers are the natural prodigious arcane masters. Warlocks are dark wizards. Summoners are conjurers who can conjure anything from weapons to armor to beasts. Healers are mages who specialize in healing and restorative magic. Battlemages are mages who wield weapons, use destructive magic and wear heavy armor. Nightblades are a mix of mages and rogues, where they use illusiory magics to augment their speed and stealth. Elementalists are like Avatars, masters of what we perceived as elements in the ancient times and in the middle ages. 

 

What Dragon Age Inquisiton seems to be doing is greatly limiting / throwing away all of that in favor of making every mage primarily elementalists with limited support. All the roleplaying archetypes are thrown out of the window in favor of MMO style DPS and flashy-ness. 

 

Why they are doing this I have no idea. I mean fire, lightning and ice can be grouped under the Primal school with fire, lightning and ice causing different side effects. Fire causes fear and DoT, lightning shocks & drains mana, frost slow / paralyzes & drains stamina. Why they gave all three different trees is beyond me. They could just have had an Elemental school tree or Primal school tree where you have spells like Elemental Walls, Elemental Seeker Swarms, Elemental Rune, Elemental Enchantments, Elemental Storms and then have a main spell that allows you to invoke fire or frost or lightning or earth elements. It seems like a poor design choice. 

 

Similarly creation and some element of the spirit school could have been expanded and given more utility. Restorative magics should have been used to boost allies, attack undead (life restoration is the antithesis of death), summoning benevolent wisps and spirits to aid in fights. 

 

Entropy on the other hand, could have been used as the debuff / socially allowed dark wizard tree. Weakening, debuffs, hexes, curses, morphing enemies into harmless forms, health drain, etc.

 

But no. They had to go and pointlessly streamline the magics instead of just tweaking them we had and then call it "variety" and "choice". Go figure. 

[Steelcan]

My guess is because they want the skill trees simpler to match the 8 ability limit so that console experiences aren't as inferior to PC ones

[themageguy]

Im hoping to see entropic spirit damage spells.

[Icy Magebane]

With the 8-slot limit, the spell condensing might be for the best.  Having a bunch of individual situational support spells doesn't work well with the new limits, which was one of my concerns with it.  I still prefer the old system, but at least I won't feel as pressed for spell space as I might have.  Being able to choose spells that compliment a particular mage character's personality is another concern with limited spells, but hopefully the specializations will be diverse enough.  I really want to see the spec trees.

I agree.  Honestly, magic would be a lot more annoying if we had a ton of spells to choose from but could only use 8 per combat.  It's not ideal, but merging elemental damage with crowd control spells was probably for the best considering that restriction... at least we will have a decent amount of passives per tree, so we won't be dealing with a bunch of spells that never make it into the rotation and wind up being a waste of talent points.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

My guess is because they want the skill trees simpler to match the 8 ability limit so that console experiences aren't as inferior to PC ones

 

Gotta keep those peasants placated....

[Steelcan]

Gotta keep those peasants placated....

hey now, I'm one of those peasants, but I won't defend this, its just ridiculous to strap this restriction on PC players