104 réponses à ce sujet

[capn233]

I do have some sympathy for the guys playing this game right at release since a lot of the various stats and bonuses weren't fully elucidated.  In that 22 page thread they hadn't figured out Adrenaline Rush damage, nor had they figured out Shotgun damage before the end.  Also interesting that everyone thought NG+ Insanity was a separate difficulty mode, for all intents and purposes.

 

Anyway I agree that best class or possibly even most effective class depends on playstyle.  Does get a little fuzzy when you are comparing two classes that work fairly well at doing the same thing, but approach it completely differently.

 

Also agree that people bring their own biases when they decide how to approach the game (not exempting myself from this).  Jumping from ME1 to ME2 outside of the protection system, it is clear that people weren't really paying attention to the tooltip hints that tell you different weapons are different tools for different jobs.  Hence the whole "shotgun vs Widow" flame war more or less missed the point.  I will point out that in one of those threads someone stated he thought Adept was superior to Infiltrator early game, which I thought was interesting.

[RedCaesar97]

I would be interested to find out with what class each of us is the most effective. I can play all classes successfully, but I'm better at playing infiltrator and engineer than other classes (with Engineer on top).

 

An interesting question. For me, a lot depends on my planned build, and the build progression. Some classes/builds are more effective from rank 1, while others take time while you level up and acquire some upgrades. For me personally:

 

1. Barring some sort of minimalist Cloak/Adrenaline Rush build, Soldier and Infiltrator are 1 and 2, or even 1a and 1b. I feel this is due to how the Infiltrator and Soldier rely heavily on Adrenaline Rush and Cloak. Adrenaline Rush slows down time and adds weapon damage, while Tactical Cloak turns you invisible--dropping all enemy aggro--and adds damage (or does the damage start at rank 2? I forget). This is good for tactical positioning, either offensively or defensively, and for adding some extra weapon damage.

 

Even starting on level 1 for the first time, you can gain a level after Lazarus Station for rank 2 Disruptor Ammo, then another level after Freedom's Progress for rank 1 Incendiary Ammo. That is enough for Mordin's Recruitment Mission and then you can spend your time levelling up your passive and Adrenaline Rush. 

 

Infiltrator, same thing, instead you can start on your passive immediately for some sniper time dilation.

 

 

2. I would actually put the Adept next. For me personally, on the typical Adept build (Warp, Throw, Singularity, Pull), the Adept does not become effective until rank 4, when I can put at least one point into my main powers.

 

If you start at level 1, you are stuck with just Singularity and Warp until level 3 when you can unlock Pull or Throw. Effective with Warp-bombs to be sure, but you lack the full effectiveness of the class at level until then.

 

When compared to tech classes, Adept also kind of gets shafted a bit with respect to upgrades, in that you cannot get your biotic duration or biotic cooldown upgrades until after Horizon.

 

 

3. I would probably put the Engineer slightly behind the Adept, even though the Engineer is my favorite class, and on the surface it would seem that the Engineer is more effective early than the Adept.

 

Engineer has the same issue as the Adept in that it relies on more than just the class passive to be effective, and requires minimum level 3 to start become more versatile.

 

The good thing about the Engineer is that Overload, Incinerate, and Cryo Blast all start with a radius. Compare this to the Adept where Pull and Throw need rank 4 to get a radius, and Warp never has a radius. That being said, 1.5m radius does not seem to hit more than one enemy all that often, making that radius kind of pointless. This means you need to get these powers to rank 4 if you want to increase the chances that it hits multiple enemies.

 

Engineer also has more powers with longer cooldowns than the Adept.

Cyro Blast does about the same job as Pull--disable enemies, increase damage and force to enemies--except it has a longer cooldown, it takes longer to freeze than to pull, and it does not pull enemies out of cover rather frozen enemies tend to fall behind cover. Also, Pull can be comboed with Throw and Warp (which the Adept also has), whereas Cryo Blast can only be comboed with Throw (which requires a squadmate).

 

The Engineer can get the Tech Duration upgrade pre-Horizon (Citadel store, Archangel recruit). You can only get the Tech Cooldown upgrade pre-Horizon with DLC (Kasumi/Stolen Memory DLC); without DLC you can only get the Tech Cooldown on the Disabled Collector Ship or Tali's loyalty mission, whichever comes first.

 

4. Not sure where I would slot Vanguard and Sentinel. I think I would slot Vanguard next, then Sentinel last.

 

Vanguard requires a whole new mindset and requires some more careful execution early as you level up Charge. But if you get the hang of it, then it becomes easier to play the more you play it, although you will still probably die a lot. Heavy Charge helps (I took Area Charge once for a playthrough; never again).

 

Sentinel is in a really weird spot. If you want to play as a caster-type then you have a few choices, none of them really all that good compared to the Adept or Engineer which can do the same with bonus powers + more efficient signature powers for casting. If you want to play as an Assault Sentinel, then you need to level up both your passive and Tech Armor to rank 4, which can take a lot of time if you start at rank 1. Plus Assault Sentinels work better with shotguns, meaning you need that bonus weapon from the Collector Ship.

 

As mentioned earlier, having DLC helps to get that Tech Cooldown upgrade as soon as possible.

[Farangbaa]

I would also add that some Adept players approached the game -- specifically the protection/power system -- like they did in ME1 and thought that biotics were gimped or outright useless on Hardcore/Insanity. Some eventually adapted but others did not, or even outright refused to adapt and continued to complain about how protections gimped biotics. 
 
Other players also complained that the global cooldown system was also bad and that powers should be on individual cooldowns again. Again, this complaint was mostly from the ME1 Adept crowd.

ME1 biotics were so overpowered I feel handicapped when not playing a biotic class in ME1.

[Vazgen]

I believe the Soldier and the Engineer are the easiest to get into after Mass Effect 1. You have same weapons (even more) and the overall idea of classes remains the same - focus on weapon damage or focus on powers. Biotic classes are arguably harder to get into after ME1 because of protection layers the enemies have and low ability of biotic classes to deal with them. Infiltrator is a bit odd, on one hand, the Overload skill is gone and you never need anything other than your sniper rifle in ME1 while in ME2 you get a pistol and an SMG which you are pretty much required to use with low ammo capacity of Mantis. Your playstyle changes the most for an Infiltrator. On the other hand, Infiltrator becomes more weapon-focused class, which are arguably easier to get into. Cloak, ammo powers - all supports your weaponry.

 

I switched from ME1 Infiltrator to the same class in ME2 on my very first run. I made a mistake putting points in cloak (oh, the dreams of stealth missions) and only having one point in Incinerate on Archangel's mission. I still had little problems with it, because of the weapons. Sniping mercs with Mantis from that balcony was great, especially with respawning ammo beside me. 

I imagine caster classes might have more trouble acclimating to ME2 revised combat mechanics. 

[capn233]

Soldier and Infiltrator are the best for people transitioning mainly from shooters, and I was one of them.  I don't think I actually even played all the classes in ME1 before I started ME2.  Did a run with every class in ME2, then went back to ME1.

 

I have no idea what ME2 class I am best with currently.  I feel like taking a mostly extended vacation from ME2 after the release of ME3 made me forget many little things about game.  It feels like I have spent a lot more time playing ME1 in the past couple years than ME2, even though I think I have started a similar number of characters in that time (5 v 4).

[a_mouse]

I would be interested to find out with what class each of us is the most effective. I can play all classes successfully, but I'm better at playing infiltrator and engineer than other classes (with Engineer on top).

For me "personal effectiveness" of a class depends a lot on the build (including bonus power).  But if we add these factors in, classes that I have played a lot (mostly from a CQC perspective) probably rank roughly as follows (list edited March 2015):

 

1) Stasis Vanguard (example1, example 2)  Combining enhanced protection and mobility (via Charge) with the best control power in the game (Stasis), this class (assuming good squad mate choices) is extremely flexible, and can deal with a wide spectrum of situations spanning blitzkrieg assault to holding the line, while remaining extremely challenging and entertaining. I have also played this class more than any other, so for me is probably most "effective". Also Vanguard *excels* at clearing levels very quickly, so if we take that as a meaningful metric of effectiveness, Vanguard would definitely score highly.

 

2) Stasis Assault Sentinel (example 1, example 2).  With enhanced protection of Assault Armor (which effectively provides two shield gates + squad power reset) and a sandbox of control powers (Cryo Blast, Throw, Stasis), the Assault Sentinel is a juggernaut of CQC goodness.  The key to keeping this class from being boring (for me) was to stop playing like a slow moving tank, and instead adopt a hybrid protection/control approach, capitalizing on the extreme mobility afforded by synergistic use of Tech Armor and Cryo/Stasis.  Although with the Stasis glitch this class is significantly OP (even on Insanity), I would argue that Stasis is an incredibly useful control power even if you offered enemies a towel and hors-derves as they got up (instead of rudely shooting them in the face).  Sentinel is also a lot shorter learning curve than Vanguard (think snowboard vs. telemark skis).

 

3) Slam CQC Infiltrator (example 1, example 2)  It's hard to beat the broad tactical advantages (and entertainment value) of being able to sneak around invisibly and ambush enemies at will. But this ability does require some experience to take full advantage of. The way I usually play Infiltrator, it actually feels tactically a bit like Vanguard (with Slam in place of pull, and cloaked storm in place of Charge). Although not as fast as Stasis Vanguard or Sentinel at clearing a room (and lacking the same level of control over protected enemies), I find this class a lot more forgiving in terms of recovering from tactical misjudgment. When in doubt, you can always disappear and regroup, or adopt a ranged combat style for some scenarios.  In my case, this is the class I have the 2nd most experience with (to the point where I could probably do an entire play-through on Insanity without reloading more than a few times). So from a reliability standpoint, I find it very "effective". 

 

4) Slam Soldier (example)  Even without Mattock, the weapon output from Adrenaline Rush trivializes many of the most dangerous enemies in the game.  With all weapons available from beginning + disabling ammo powers + rapid cool down CC bonus power + ability to rush enemies at will, the Slam Soldier is a very solid robust class that can pretty much deal with everything by brute force. It's easy to play lazily with a Soldier (even on Insanity), and not die. So to the extent this is a metric of effectiveness, Soldier ranks very highly. However, when playing Soldier I often feel like I am more limited in the variety of WAYS I can approach a scenario, so it ends up feeling less effective (to me) than perhaps it really is.   

 

5) Stasis Adept (example 1, example 2) or Engineer (example).  I place these two together because (to me) they play very similarly - focusing entirely on physical control to maintain tactical advantage.  By doubling-down on control of protected enemies (Singularity + Stasis or Drone + Stasis), these classes offer the highest level of battlefield manipulation possible (and Stasis is just *monstrous*, whether or not you take advantage of the damage glitch).  I think these classes require the highest level of skill and experience to take full advantage of (and stay out of trouble), but once on a roll, these classes are virtually unstoppable. Probably Adept has overall edge over Engineer, but this is very enemy and mission-dependent (in general I think Engineer is highly underrated). Although these classes are not quite as fast as Vanguard or reliable as Infiltrator (for me) at clearing levels, they usually make up for this by providing a rich bounty of entertaining ways to dispatch enemies.  

 

6) Dominate/AI Hacking Engineer (example 1, example 2) or Infiltrator (example) These two classes can implement a nearly game-wide strategy of subversion: distracting enemies with thralls so as to create opportunities to maneuver and/or attack. Alternatively, you can just sit back and watch in marvel as enemies run around killing each other for you. Once I fully understood the game mechanics, I found these classes to be an incredibly powerful and "effective" way approach to the game.  However, a subversion strategy usually requires a much longer time to set up and execute, and thus is slowest at completing missions.  It's also not effective on missions with limited numbers of thrallable enemies (e.g. Reaper IFF).  Hence while I consider these classes very effective, they fall lowest on my personal effectiveness ranking.  However, they might well be at the top of my list for entertainment value (e.g. see Engineer example 2)! 

[capn233]

I agree that Soldier feels like the "brute force" class.  Even more-so than Vanguard or Assault Sentinel to me.  Soldier is pretty good at most things, AOE damage or CC the exceptions, and pretty solid on most missions.  So something of a steady Eddie.  You have simple cooldown management since you really only have one good active power. 

 

But there is a price to be paid.  While it may seem like Soldier's damage and versatility allows you more leeway in selecting a squad, the truth of the matter is Soldier does not have any particularly great synergies with any squad mate either.  I do not think the interaction with the squad should be ignored, as you always have a squad with the exception of Arrival.

[a_mouse]

You have simple cooldown management since you really only have one good active power. But there is a price to be paid.  While it may seem like Soldier's damage and versatility allows you more leeway in selecting a squad, the truth of the matter is Soldier does not have any particularly great synergies with any squad mate either.  I do not think the interaction with the squad should be ignored, as you always have a squad with the exception of Arrival.

Indeed, this may be partly why I feel limited in ways to approach each scenario. This is reflected in my choice of squad mates, which for Slam Soldier is nearly universally the same every mission: Miranda (for Overload + Warp bombs off of Shep's Slam) and Mordin (for a 2nd short cool down AOE immobilizer + Incinerate).  Basically it's all about weapon synergy: I like to be able to immobilize and/or detonate anything walking around with a full red health bar.  But that's about it (as far as Soldier squad synergy goes).

[capn233]

Yes, Shepard is a weapon master as a Soldier and that is great for killing the elites or mini-bosses.  But as far as mooks go, if you designate Shepard as "defense stripper" you might be better at that then other classes are with their weapons, but it is an assembly line, one target at a time sot of system that does not compare to the AOE tech stripper powers.

 

Alternatively, if Shepard is supposed to provide the CC, it is largely one target at a time as well, with the exception of squad evolutions.  Of course Squad Cryo is actually available to two other classes, and both of them can actually unlock it at a lower level than Soldier.

 

Of course you could not even think about anything and just shoot everything.  That's where the simplicity / brute force comes in.  But it is hard for me to accept that this turns out to be the fastest way through the game, especially with base game weapons.  Granted, once you pickup the Viper and Revenant combo you can roll through pretty quickly, but by that point in the game every class can run advanced training, get the Viper, and they are also leveled enough to have more powers for more situations.

[cap and gown]

I am coming back to this thread because I am contemplating another insanity run through ME2, this time as an Engineer. What's strange is that my first two insanity runs were as an Engineer, but now, as I contemplate another such run I am dreading it. I keep thinking back to playing as an Adept and how powerful Singularity was for immobilizing targets and then creating explosions with them once we got the protection off. Not having that ability just seems so intimidating. How the frak am I supposed to handle a charging Krogan or a rapidly advancing Vanguard? As an Adept the answer was straight forward: toss a Singularity. As an Engineer I can already tell I am going to miss that ability to immobilize protected targets.

 

Funny how perceptions change over time. I used to think of the Engineer as better than the Adept. Now I am feeling the exact opposite.

[Vazgen]

Drone. That should keep them from coming close too quickly

[cap and gown]

Drone. That should keep them from coming close too quickly

 

Wont do anything for a Fenris mech or Varren, though. At least as an Adept I could strip them, then hit them with a Singularity to keep them from closing. I am especially dreading Freedom's Progress.

[Vazgen]

Wont do anything for a Fenris mech or Varren, though. At least as an Adept I could strip them, then hit them with a Singularity to keep them from closing. I am especially dreading Freedom's Progress.

That's why you take a crowd control-oriented squadmate. Gravity is a mean... You have the ability to strip any protection layer (except barriers, might need some help against them) use it.

[capn233]

Mordin is pretty clutch in the above scenario.  You hit the Krogan with your Incinerate, and then Mordin hits him with Full Cryo Blast.

 

Or if you don't want to do that the simplest thing is to take NS as the bonus, and strip the armor of the Krogan with a pistol then hit him with NS.

[Ledgend1221]

So far, I've only really played Soldier, Infil and just started a vanguard.

 

But I've just found the soldier good for pretty much any situation. Squad distruptor and explosive inferno ammo were my ammo choices, good for pretty much any situations. Went into Geth Shield Boost as my bonus power, as I've heard it was affected by tech upgrades and it provides a damage boost.

The only time I've ever had much trouble with ammo is on Freedoms Progress.

Revenant, GPS and Viper pretty much covered the late-game.

Popping AR and unloading a Inferno Rev into someguy's face is always satisfying.

 

Never found a situation that was too difficult or harder then it should have been. Dying became a result of me just doing stupid things rather then having an ineffective setup.

[robsonwt]

When I play the Infiltrator I have something like this at level 7 and this at level 12. I prefer leveling class power for the best time dilation and Incinerate + Energy Drain for stripping defenses first. Tactical cloak gets leveled when the both Incinerate, Operative and Energy Drain are fully leveled. After maxing out Tactical cloak I go for Disruptor Ammo.

For the starting missions I like taking Grunt (since he can draw enemy fire for some time) and Miranda (to help with stripping defenses). After I get Mordin and Garrus, they take place on my team, until I level up enough. After that I alternate, Garrus + Thane (Eclipse, Collectors), Tali + Garrus (Blue Suns, geth), Jack + Mordin (husks, Blood Pack)... 

Jacob is always left on the ship, the only time he leaves it is for his loyalty mission. Miranda lasts one mission longer

I like doing Kasumi's mission early on so I have the Locust when going after Archangel. It serves as a nice backup for Mantis which I use for headshots on exposed troopers and mechs. 

To answer the question: Archangel mission - Miranda + Mordin, Horizon - Mordin + Garrus

 

How do you deal with Barriers in Horizon with Mordin and Garrus? Do you have Warp Ammo or only relies on SMGs? Do you rely only on Concussion Shot?

[Vazgen]

How do you deal with Barriers in Horizon with Mordin and Garrus? Do you have Warp Ammo or only relies on SMGs? Do you rely only on Concussion Shot?

SMG + occasional Concussive Shot. Locust works wonders

[MegaIllusiveMan]

Well, since I'm a noob and only played ME2 in Veteran Difficulty (Hey, ME3 is in Insanity!!), I actually found that playing as a Soldier is hard as hell, unless you pick the right squad, because your only offensive power is Concussive Shot...

 

Of course, the Soldier can be compensated by picking the Revenant.

[Kurt M.]

Best (as of easiest) class on Insanity will always be a Soldier. Tanky build by default, and capable of doing tremendous damage from a distance with just the Mattock (which you have it from the very beginning). I barely (or even never) died in my latest playthought.

 

But the most satisfactory one (and frustrating, depending of your point of view), is the Vanguard. Difficult even for experienced players. Unlike the Soldier, which you can use your main "Adren. Rush + Mattock" pattern for almost any situation, you either have to look for a secondary pattern to debilitate large groups of enemies, or be amazingly good with Charge + your shotgun, or you'll die a lot.

 

In my case, my favourite secondary pattern is Mattock (strip out defenses) + Slam. I agree there may be other patterns that may be more efficient (Energy Drain + Mattock is kickass, too), but I've always loved Slam. The sound of bones crushing against the ground is....addictive

[10K]

Vanguard + Charge + Claymore reload trick = Beast mode on insanity!! Man those were the good ole days #Nostalgia

[a_mouse]

Recently I've been playing around with Stasis Sentinel again, so decided to test how fast I could cheese my way (with Assault Armor + Stasis exploits) through the Disabled Collector Ship level compared to Stasis Vanguard doing the same thing (with a ground rule of no health damage).  The result was a bit … surprising: almost 1 minute faster with Sentinel!
 
Assault Sentinel:

 
Vanguard:

 
Comments:
 
I think the main issue is that when not charging, the Vanguard needs to hide in cover a lot more to prevent health damage. Thus, although storming with Assault Armor will never match the bursts of speed afforded by Charge, the Sentinel is generally more mobile, and thus in many situations can cover terrain competitively. (I'll add that Stimulator Conduits were noticeably beneficial on the Sentinel).  Meanwhile the Sentinel (with Throw, Cryo Blast, Heavy Warp, and especially squad power reset) has more tools for multitasking, and thus using time efficiently.  Thus most of the ordinary engagements are a toss-up on time between the two.  The exception is the Praetorian battle (favoring Sentinel due to Heavy Warp), and the husks (where I was not as efficient as I could have been with the Vanguard on this particular run).  So all in all, I think these two classes are actually fairly competitive on time.  
 
However, judging by the quality and quantity of unused footage in making these two videos, the Sentinel is noticeably easier to play.  Also, despite the obvious similarity in play style between these two videos (!), the Vanguard feels more like wielding a sword (surgical strikes), while the Sentinel feels more like swinging a club (blunt force instrument). Which is more "powerful"?  You be the judge...
 
Additional comment (3/15): Although the build in this Sentinel vid is optimized for Collectors (Heavy Warp + rank 2 Cryo), I think it is generally more useful to prioritize rank 4 Cryo (3m radius evolution) over Heavy Warp.  As long as Warp has enough oomf to pull the barrier or armor off an ordinary mook, then points should go to more CC (echoing capn233's comments in this thread).
 
Update (6/15): Below is Stasis Adept on the same mission, clocking in around the same time as Sentinel (and faster than Vanguard!).  So maybe control-oreinted classes are more powerful (on a time basis) than I originally gave them credit for...
 
Adept:

[goofyomnivore]

Damn this thread is kind of old but whatever. I got some nostalgia looking for a claymore video of mine to link on the ME:A forums.

 

I think everyone underrated the Engineer in ME2. It was the last class I tried. The Engineer can do some crazy shiz. 

 

Best class for me was something that was fast and fun. Vanguard > Engineer > Adept = Sentinel was my tier list for that. I never really got into Shotgun Infiltrators, but they were good imo.

 

Best class imo in terms of power/easy to play.  Soldier > Infiltrator > Sentinel > Vanguard > Engineer > Adept

 

A skilled Vanguard is probably best  if you use time to beat mission as a deciding factor. You can clear missions quite quickly. (I'm assuming no spawn cancels or Infiltrator skips with cloak)

 

To highlight the Engineer this is one my favorite ME2 recordings.

 

[Bigdawg13]

Really nice thread here.  I guess I'll have to try out stasis. 

 

I still don't understand the sentinel power armor's ability to reset cooldowns for the group. 

[RedCaesar97]

Really nice thread here.  I guess I'll have to try out stasis. 

 

I still don't understand the sentinel power armor's ability to reset cooldowns for the group. 

 

Tech Armor's ability to reset squadmate cooldowns was a feature during development, but they decided to cut it out some time before release. However, the feature was left (or put back) in the game by accident.

 

Basically. whenever you activate (or reactivate or refresh) Tech Armor, any squadmates that are cooldown get their cooldowns reset to 0 so they can cast again. So you can go squadmate power > squadmate power > Tech Armor > squadmate power > squadmate power in rapid succession.

[czeuch]

Hello, I'm new here and relatively new to the series.
I didn't read all 3 pages here but I want to share my opinion.

I played a paragon male shep soldier on ME1 in normal dificulty. Then I changed to an infiltrator on ME2 and played on veteran. Lastly, I played ME3 on insanity directly.

Now I have a renegade fem shep vanguard. I played ME1 on hardcore because insanity wasn't unlocked.
And I'm currently a bit more than half way through ME2.

It was a steep learning curve at first. I had to charge strategically and I died a lot. The last battles however have been easy and awesome. Im so excited with this class. I'm now strong enough to immediately charge, one shot the target with the claymore or finish it with melee. Then I reload while moving around looking for my next victim. Charge rinse and repeat.
Of course I don't one shot all enemies but quite a lot of them. I barely need my squad at all unless some specific battles, like Donavan where I stand right now.

It's absolutely amazing the speed I can finish a fight. The playstyle is indeed high risk high reward. I still die sometimes if I make a mistake, but the ability to fly through the battlefield facing the enemies barely using cover is just so nice.

I even fought the geth colossus one on one. Poor guy didn't stand a chance.

I doubt any other class can clear a battlefield as fast as a vanguard.

I'm eager to try the ME3 nova and worried about the change in the gameplay where you can't one shot protected enemies anymore.