120 réponses à ce sujet

[springacres]

There's arguments that it's an irresponsible decision, but this isn't one of them. The thing about burning the city is that unless you metagame the decision it's difficult to believe that such a thing can be done with no survivors, not least because of the underground tunnel they took into the city. By the metric you describe (albeit not by many more) the responsible thing is to march in there and personally ensure not a single darkspawn is moving.

My canon Warden took the view that even if the city was lost by the time he got there, it was still his job as acting Arl to ensure that survivors (if any) had a chance to get to safety.  He also figured it would be a lot easier to rebuild a fortress than to rebuild a city, if it came to that.  Besides, he felt more of a sense of responsibility to protect the citizens of Amaranthine than he did the well armed, well armored soldiers and Wardens at the Keep.

 

Having said that, he still mourns the loss of Sigrun, Velanna, Varel and the others who died at Vigil's Keep.  Knowing that friends and acquaintances have volunteered to put themselves in harm's way doesn't make it any easier to accept their deaths.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I hadn't considered the tunnels, but I still disagree. My main problem with saving the city is still that you're taking on the entire horde with a group of seven people(and a few guards). This isn't Denerim, you don't have an army.

 

Burning the city will at least weaken them and slow them down. It's not perfect, but fighting them yourself just seems insane to me when there is so much at stake.

I mean, that makes sense, but how much will it weaken them? All they have to do is dodge the initial volleys and find ways out of the city ahead of the fire. By knocking down the gates, for example. Or finding their way onto the stone walls.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

It wasn't there when I checked.

And this still is a cowardly way out of an otherwise complex dilemma. The player isn't challenged and there is nothing to lose.

 

It's been like that for several months now.

[Shadow Hearth]

As my main character, I chose to save Amaranthine. As the Queen of Ferelden as well as a Grey Warden, it was her duty to protect the people and save the city. She couldn't allow it to burn, as she would have lost a valuable trade route and source of income for Ferelden as well as a well forged alliance between the city and the Grey Wardens. Whether she would die at Amaranthine was besides the point - she had faced more dangerous odds in defeating the Arch Demon and had survived when she shouldn't have. And staying to defend Vigils Keep was not necessarily guaranteeing her safety either. It was a tough decision, but it had to be made to secure Ferelden's foothold in the area.

Vigil's Keep was a watch post for Darkspawn and was created to protect the area. After bringing in a Dwarven stone smith to fortify the walls, plugging up any way that the Darkspawn could have made it into the keep, as well as having amazing armor crafters that she had worked with in the past to ensure my Grey Wardens were well armed and well armored, she left them and her companions to hold the walls until she could return to them and help them in their fight. Anders was left behind because he was a semi-reliable healer and would tend to the wounded. Justice was left behind as a valuable front-line fighter. And finally, Nathaniel was left behind because I knew he would be a valuable archer at the top of the walls.

Unfortunately, she was unable to return to Vigil's Keep because she was presented with the opportunity to slay the Darkspawn's leader, their General, in a sense, the Mother. In that decision, it was either return to the Keep to help her Grey Wardens or strike a crippling blow to the armies that threatened both Amaranthine and Vigil's Keep.

Ultimately, she managed to save both the city of Amaranthine and Vigil's Keep, keeping a valuable city from falling, ensuring the continuation of a city with great opportunites as well as keeping a foothold for the Grey Warden's in future fights. However, she is faced with the loss and disappearance of some of her companions. Anders has completely disappeared, but she is aware that he is prone to running away from his problems. Justice's body was found beheaded by Darkspawn and his corpse was rightfully returned to his wife for her to mourn his loss. Nathaniel survives and goes on to save her brother, in which he is reinstated his lands, then continues his journey as a Grey Warden.

While she is saddened and mourns the loss of her fallen and lost companions, she believes that she made the right choice in leaving the protection of the Keep in their very capable hands.

---

Now, down to the nitty gritty... Even if you manage to save both Vigil's Keep and Amaranthine, the game is bugged and doesn't register this event. Any companions left behind at Vigil's Keep "die" when they are not supposed to. When transferring your game to DAII, it will register that Nathaniel (if left at the Keep) is dead and will not appear in your DAII game. The only way to "save" him, is to take him with you to protect Amaranthine.

Luckily, the Dragon Age Keep has fixed this bug when transferring to DA:I by allowing you to pick the option of saving both the Keep and Amaranthine, and still keeping Nathaniel alive while doing so. Unfortunately, the Keep will not transfer this option into DAII, so make sure you take Nathaniel with you to the Mother fight if you wish for him to survive.

[RoseLawliet]

snip

 

I had nearly identical reasoning, but also took to heart what Mistres Woolsey had said at the beginning, that the First Warden (and the rest of Thedas, I assumed) was watching the fate of Amaranthine. Wardens had only been back in Ferelden little more than twenty years, and recently they've been breaking all sorts of "Warden rules" (like taking over small countries... ahem). And now they've actually been granted an arling. Doing anything less than trying her absolute best to protect the citizens of Amaranthine would have stained the Warden reputation more than it could handle, especially since recruitment isn't all that great. Tthe campaign started with all of two actual Grey Wardens, both of whom should have been doing political things in Denerim. (Ignoring Avernus.) At the end, you have a maximum of of 6 plus the PC (Alistair/Loghain and Avernus don't count, as they aren't doing any fighting).

 

As for who was with me, my Warden was terrified of the Children, so she brought the healer (Anders), archer (Nathaniel), and volunteer (Sigrun). And because I had no idea that upgrades kept people from dying, and I hadn't anticipated the plot's pacing, Vigil's Keep was lost. Velanna vanished, Oghren died (actually got me depressed for a few days), and Justice was presumed "back in the Fade".

[springacres]

As my main character, I chose to save Amaranthine.  He's an elf, a mage, AND a Grey Warden, and felt that any failure on his part (such as returning to Vigil's Keep and abandoning the city to its fate) would end up being blamed at least partly on one of those three groups.  He also rationalized that those at the Keep were mostly soldiers or Wardens and would, presumably, be better able to defend themselves than the unarmed or haphazardly-armed civilians in Amaranthine.  He thus chose to stay and protect the citizens, rather than retreat to where he had dwarven-fortified walls to protect him.

 

Incidentally, he's still waiting for the universe - or at least King Alistair and Teyrn Fergus - to return to its collective sanity and tell him he's no longer the acting arl of Amaranthine.  Preferably in favor of a human noble who has the upbringing and temperament to do a good job of it.  He may have the temperament, but he really doesn't enjoy giving non-mage shemlen nobles any more reason to dislike elves or mages.  He wanted to go back to the Circle, after the events of Origins, but he had this nagging sense of responsibility that wouldn't let him retire.  Plus, Zevran.

[Andrew Lucas]

I'd like to do both, if I didn't stop playing because of all the bugs. Couldn't do some of the companions joinings because I had to protect Amaranthine out of the nowhere, meaning I lost some serious content here. I'm super bummed and disappointed, had to skip directly to Witch Hunt and finish this Origin's playthrough cause I couldn't load earlier saves of almost two hours earlier just to do everything in time.

I don't know if I should even import my save to DA2 sice the point was to play the sequel with all DLCs carried along. Might as well jump to DAI because of the Keep.

[GoldenGail3]

My Male Cousland - "I have nothing against Amarathine, but there are Darkspawn infiltrating it... So it has to go."

My Female Amell - "We must save everyone!"

My Female Cousland - "it is honerable and just we must save everyone!"

[GoldenGail3]

I've finally reached this point in my Awakening playthrough, and I'm having trouble deciding whether to save Vigil's Keep or Amaranthine. This is only my second playthrough of Awakening ever (the first being years ago), and I don't really remember the battles or outcomes of saving each place.
Which place did you save and why? Which has the "better" outcome?

Our Avatars looks like they could be sisters, lol.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

I saved both. But if I had to choose, it would be Amaranthine. Except for that one time when I was playing a mage and wanted to stick it to 'em. As a Grey Warden, paladin, police officer, soldier, security guard, etc.; I feel it is your duty to make rescuing civilians your top priority.

[Catilina]

Amarantine. And: if you finished the keep upgrades, you will save both.

[Andrew Lucas]

So, I managed to find a save that wasn't made a decade ago, but the quest to collect materials for the soldiers remained bugged, now I ultimately have to chose between Amaranthine and Keep.

As for now, Keep is destroyed and the city is safe, but I don't know if I reload and do the opposite. I feel like Grey Wardens are more important than an apparently lost city.

help

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

So, I managed to find a save that wasn't made a decade ago, but the quest to collect materials for the soldiers remained bugged, now I ultimately have to chose between Amaranthine and Keep.

As for now, Keep is destroyed and the city is safe, but I don't know if I reload and do the opposite. I feel like Grey Wardens are more important than an apparently lost city.

help

Under circumstances where you have to choose, you're almost certainly saving more lives saving the entire city, and you're certainly saving more civilian lives.

[springacres]

Under circumstances where you have to choose, you're almost certainly saving more lives saving the entire city, and you're certainly saving more civilian lives..

And if you're trying to benefit the Wardens as an organization, saving those civilian lives makes for better PR.

[Artona]

My Cousland saved Vigil. Since Amaranthine was more or less lost and whatever civil lives were to be saved may have been tainted by darkspawn already, it made sense to retreat to Vigil's Keep and at least defend the stronghold. 
Well, I had no idea you could save both. Maybe in another playthrough. 

[WulvenWanderer]

I've read that there are issues with people not surviving into DA2 if you choose to save Amaranthine even with a fully upgraded keep, is this still the case? I'm trying to work my way to an ending where all of my companions live and DA2 recognizes them as surviving.

[Melbella]

I've read that there are issues with people not surviving into DA2 if you choose to save Amaranthine even with a fully upgraded keep, is this still the case? I'm trying to work my way to an ending where all of my companions live and DA2 recognizes them as surviving.

I think Nathaniel is the only one bugged in the import to DA2. If you don't take him with you on the final mission, DA2 assumes he died even if he survived. For the other companions, the correct results import into DA2.

[straykat]

I think Nathaniel is the only one bugged in the import to DA2. If you don't take him with you on the final mission, DA2 assumes he died even if he survived. For the other companions, the correct results import into DA2.

 

Good to know.

 

I always take him though. With Sigrun and Velanna.

 

 

I fully upgraded the Keep this last time and defended Amaranthine. But for some reason, Stroud thought Anders died in DA2.

[WulvenWanderer]

I think Nathaniel is the only one bugged in the import to DA2. If you don't take him with you on the final mission, DA2 assumes he died even if he survived. For the other companions, the correct results import into DA2.

So always take Nathaniel, and I guess Sigrun and either Velanna or Justice? I remember that Anders and Ohgren survive. Kind of lame how they set it up, but I guess that's how it is.

[Melbella]

Good to know.
 
I always take him though. With Sigrun and Velanna.
 
 
I fully upgraded the Keep this last time and defended Amaranthine. But for some reason, Stroud thought Anders died in DA2.

I'm a bit confused by your last statement. Are you saying you met Stroud in DA2 and he thought Anders died in Awakening? Or that you met Stroud in DAI and he thought Anders died in DA2?

 

The first instance would be a bug with the import from DAO to DA2; the second would be either a DA Keep bug or a wrong choice picked/imported. Regardless what the Awakening epilogue and/or codex states about Anders, he will always be alive in DA2 at the start of the game.
 
 

So always take Nathaniel, and I guess Sigrun and either Velanna or Justice? I remember that Anders and Ohgren survive. Kind of lame how they set it up, but I guess that's how it is.

 

I always take Nate (because he's my favorite and also to avoid the bug) and the others are whoever I feel like at the time. If you are worried about approval scores, Sigrun and Justice will want you to kill the Architect; Velanna will want you to spare him because of her sister. I believe Nate is also in favor of kill but I don't remember for sure; it may not matter to him either way. In my last game, I left Anders and Justice both at the Vigil since the uncertainty as to what happens seems to fit better with how they end up in Kirkwall later.

[WulvenWanderer]

I'm a bit confused by your last statement. Are you saying you met Stroud in DA2 and he thought Anders died in Awakening? Or that you met Stroud in DAI and he thought Anders died in DA2?

 

Yeah that's the plan. I only vaguely remembered Nate and his dryness has really grown on me. I haven't actually gone past DA:O Ultimate, and was hoping to have a save where everyone lives. It seems that leaving Anders and Justice (from what I've read) are indeed the best choices. Shame about Oghren not being listed as being kept in the series.

Given what I remember from the Dragon Age books, I think I'll kill the Architect. The guy seems like a bit of a sociopathic scumbag anyway.

[Qun00]

When does an army ever consider protecting themselves a greater priority than protecting the people?

[Qun00]

Given what I remember from the Dragon Age books, I think I'll kill the Architect. The guy seems like a bit of a sociopathic scumbag anyway.

From his journal:

"The Seeker collected two elves, male and female. The rest died defending their camp. Unfortunate, but a small price to pay. The male has since dashed his head on the wall. Odd. Don't all living beings strive for survival?

The Seeker confessed that he did more than simply collect the elves. He found the elves and humans at odds, then exacerbated the conflict by making the humans look responsible for the two elves' disappearances. He said he wanted to see how the elf leader would react. Odd again."

The guy simply doesn't give a ****. And yet some people think he is a trustworthy ally.

[GoldenGail3]

Save Amarathine.

[straykat]

I'm a bit confused by your last statement. Are you saying you met Stroud in DA2 and he thought Anders died in Awakening? Or that you met Stroud in DAI and he thought Anders died in DA2?

 

The first instance would be a bug with the import from DAO to DA2; the second would be either a DA Keep bug or a wrong choice picked/imported. Regardless what the Awakening epilogue and/or codex states about Anders, he will always be alive in DA2 at the start of the game.
  not matter to him either way. In my last game, I left Anders and Justice both at the Vigil since the uncertainty as to what happens seems to fit better with how they end up in Kirkwall later.

 

When you meet Stroud to cure Carver, he says "Anders... I thought you died."

 

"That's the rumor."

 

I don't remember that happening before, except when Anders actually died. Nathaniel expresses shock if Anders died too, but I didn't bring Anders on that mission to see if it happened.

 

I know he's always going to be there no matter what. I'm just saying the game is bugged on my actual conditions. Anders never died. I only left him at the Keep, but the Keep was upgraded. It must think Vigil's Keep was never upgraded.