218 réponses à ce sujet

[Icy Magebane]

So...uh.....templars require lyrium.  That's one retcon since DA:Origins.

Yup... looks like my canon Hawke is screwed, and I'll be avoiding the spec on my future Inquisitors for the most part.

[Steelcan]

Some people just have different tastes. Some like vanilla some like chocolate.

this isn't vanilla and chocolate

 

this is.... I'm not even sure what this is.  Breaking Bad compared to Honey Boo Boo

[thats1evildude]

Yup... looks like my canon Hawke is screwed, and I'll be avoiding the spec on my future Inquisitors for the most part.

 

Bah! The Chantry gets its templars hooked on the stuff as a means of control. Just don't drink as much lyrium as your average templar and you'll be fine. Probably.

[Br3admax]

Yup... looks like my canon Hawke is screwed, and I'll be avoiding the spec on my future Inquisitors for the most part.

Why would you trust Alistair anyway, the butt of every joke the party has? 

[Steelcan]

Silly wardens being templars with all those nasty side-affects

 

*sips cup of dragon blood*

[Br3admax]

Bah! The Chantry gets its templars hooked on the stuff as a means of control. You don't need as much as most templars.

Complete assumption based on nothing but opinion. 

[Br3admax]

Silly wardens being templars with all those nasty side-affects

 

*sips cup of dragon blood*

She'll just get revenge in DA:I. You brought that on yourself. 

[Icy Magebane]

Why would you trust Alistair anyway, the butt of every joke the party has? 

It never occurred to me that lyrium was need to use the Templar abilities because it wasn't part of the player's spec... *shrugs*  I took him at his word, although it's obvious now that he was high for pretty much the entire game and was just lying about it.  Some of those jokes he made, just... wow...

[dantares83]

so how did ur warden learnt templar abilities in DAO? u don't have the lyrium?

[BobZilla84]

So would you say that Biowares Cannon will take a dominate role over our Cannon.I mean will the Events of Asunder and the rest of the Gaiderverse be present in DAI or will we be able to have a World State that is as accurate to our gaming Expierence "Games+ Dlcs ".

 

As someone who doesnt care about the Dragon Age AU "Books,Comics,Movies" I hate that Wynne was be killed off in the Gaiderverse because in one of my World States she remained in Denerim as my Prince Consort Couslands Advisor.

 

I hope our Cannon is the Primary focus and not Biowares.

[MACharlie1]

So would you say that Biowares Cannon will take a dominate role over our Cannon.I mean will the Events of Asunder and the rest of the Gaiderverse be present in DAI or will we be able to have a World State that is as accurate to our gaming Expierence "Games+ Dlcs ".

 

As someone who doesnt care about the Dragon Age AU "Books,Comics,Movies" I hate that Wynne was be killed off in the Gaiderverse because in one of my World States she remained in Denerim as my Prince Consort Couslands Advisor.

 

I hope our Cannon is the Primary focus and not Biowares.

I think in regards to Wynne, she'll be dead no matter what. 

[Sifr]

Maybe he just wasn't interested in YOUR MALE warden? Not everything wants your Warden's D.

 

Exactly, we might just not be his type. Look at it this way, out of all the men in the party, there are pretty slim pickings. The Warden comes across as "severe" (according to Leliana in Origins), Oghren stinks like a brewery and is completely straight (when he's not hitting on men mistakenly because of beer goggles), Nathaniel's flirtation with Velanna implies he's straight (and he could compete with Fenris for "Broodiest man in Thedas") and Justice is a Spirit trapped outside of the Fade in a decomposing corpse (no, just no)...

 

I don't see it hard to imagine Anders as bisexual even in Awakening. When Greg Ellis played him, he used the same playful tone whenever he's flirting with women as when he's bantering with the men, so it's not too far-fected to suggest that he could be attracted to both?

[Cainhurst Crow]

What I don't get is why chopping leiliana's head off suddenly matters at all? I chopped off howe's and loghains head but the dudes had em just fine in the cutscene. They even had enough function from those shoved on severed heads to give me a chastising speech upon their defeat.

Guess decapitations aren't that big a deal in thedas. Or decapitations only matter if you're a girl.

[Ina]

 

I don't see it hard to imagine Anders as bisexual even in Awakening. When Greg Ellis played him, he used the same playful tone whenever he's flirting with women as when he's bantering with the men, so it's not too far-fected to suggest that he could be attracted to both?

 

 

Yeah especially in that robes conversation with Nate. I mean no way you would say it's not flirtatious if the same dialogue had been said to a women in that tone. I don't recall any other conversations he had with men in the expansion that had that vibe. I'm told my views are clouded by having played DA2 before Awakening, but from an objective standpoint any man talking to another man or woman in that tone of voice would indicate to me that he was flirting.

 

 

What I don't get is why chopping leiliana's head off suddenly matters at all? I chopped off howe's and loghains head but the dudes had em just fine in the cutscene. They even had enough function from those shoved on severed heads to give me a chastising speech upon their defeat.

Guess decapitations aren't that big a deal in thedas. Or decapitations only matter if you're a girl. 

 

 

Hmm? I thought it was less about chopping her head off and more about her surviving her apparent death without a proper explanation. Did I miss something?

[Reaverwind]

Bah! The Chantry gets its templars hooked on the stuff as a means of control. Just don't drink as much lyrium as your average templar and you'll be fine. Probably.

 

How do we know the Chantry isn't doctoring the lyrium with something else?

[BobZilla84]

I think in regards to Wynne, she'll be dead no matter what. 

Yeah I figured as much which sucks I would have loved to see Wynne again in DAI but sadly there are parts of the Gaiderverse that will always be retconned over our Cannon.

 

I tell you one thing if Alistair shows up as King of Ferelden in DAI after I create my World State it will be a total retcon because he was executed at the Landsmeet as precaution to prevent any future unrest in Ferelden.

 

Long Live King Cousland & Queen Anora Mac Tir

[Reaverwind]

What I don't get is why chopping leiliana's head off suddenly matters at all? I chopped off howe's and loghains head but the dudes had em just fine in the cutscene. They even had enough function from those shoved on severed heads to give me a chastising speech upon their defeat.

Guess decapitations aren't that big a deal in thedas. Or decapitations only matter if you're a girl.

 

Or maybe Leliana failed to prepare a monologue for such an occasion, and therefore couldn't kick the bucket? 

[thats1evildude]

Yeah I figured as much which sucks I would have loved to see Wynne again in DAI but sadly there are parts of the Gaiderverse that will always be retconned over our Canon.

 

What're you talking about? No retcon has taken place. Asunder occurs after DAO.

[Sifr]

Yeah especially in that robes conversation with Nate. I mean no way you would say it's not flirtatious if the same dialogue had been said to a women in that tone. I don't recall any other conversations he had with men in the expansion that had that vibe. I'm told my views are clouded by having played DA2 before Awakening, but from an objective standpoint any man talking to another man or woman in that tone of voice would indicate to me that he was flirting.

 

I played the games out of sequence as well, Origins, then DA2 before Awakening, but even so, I don't get why people seem convinced that we're just retroactively applying bisexuality to him? Especially if you consider that Anders was an outrageous flirt with practically everyone in Awakening, yet he barely flirts at all in DA2, even towards the female party members?

[Cainhurst Crow]

Hmm? I thought it was less about chopping her head off and more about her surviving her apparent death without a proper explanation. Did I miss something?

Well, "without proper explanation" is tricky. Because mileage will vary between players and you need to pick whose mileage you go with? The guy whose okay with the changes as long as there's a change in dialogue to reflect the change, or the guy who wants precise blood loss measurements in thesis statement form to be satisfied. Even finding a happy median is a problem because, who do you pick to serve as the range and how many of them do you actually take into account?

The whole retcon things goes back to choices not matter, which goes mainly into the precieved notion that the consequences of an action did not lead to a different result. But this in it of itself may in fact be a false accusation on the fact that the results of the actions did arrive at different results, just not the results the player wanted. For example, if you killed leiliana, she acknowledges the attempt on her life, but if you didn't, she doesn't. This expression and alteration of feelings towards said person is, in its simplicity, a different result. It acknowledges the players choice and accounts for it in its dialogue, the only problem is that the consequence didn't lead to the result the players expected or wanted.

But if player satisfaction with a choice is the determining factor of a choices value, then what makes this complaint more valid then, say, the players dissatisfied with the harrowmont/bhelen outcome? Both worked in similar ways, presenting a consequence's result in a way the player didn't respect, but the different being the radical nature of the result in how different it was from the other consequence. But this in it of itself raises another question all together of whether big alterations are the only measures of choices mattering, or if choices with smaller but still observable results still count as choices mattering.

And again, mileage may vary, and who or what exactly do we use to determine the golden mean here?

[BobZilla84]

What're you talking about? No retcon has taken place. Asunder occurs after DAO.

Yes it does but it is from the Gaiderverse/Biowares Cannon it isnt a retcon really but it is annoying that Wynne will be dead in DAI because of  the Dragon Age AU.

 

What about the Comics are we gonna have to watch out for Isabella showing up fawning over Alistair even though she is my Hawkes LI.

 

My point is AU can be good but keep it out of Choice driven Rpgs we all have seen the worst that can happen with Cannon/Retconning "Revan & The Exile".

[Ina]

I played the games out of sequence as well, Origins, then DA2 before Awakening, but even so, I don't get why people seem convinced that we're just retroactively applying bisexuality to him? Especially if you consider that Anders was an outrageous flirt with practically everyone in Awakening, yet he barely flirts at all in DA2, even towards the female party members?

 

In DA2 he flirts with Hawke only if he/she is diplomatic in one conversation. Besides that he doesn't even mention his bisexuality to a fem Hawke and for anyone who played the game as fem Hawke without meta knowledge, he could continue to appear as 'straight' as he did in Awakening. I admit to not seeing his bi leaning in Awakening outside of his banter with Nate, but I still just don't see why it's such a big deal even if he did actively hide his bisexual during a part of his life. I would have certainly preferred it being more obvious from a representation standpoint, but the lack of it doesn't erase his sexuality to me.

[Ina]

Well, "without proper explanation" is tricky. Because mileage will vary between players and you need to pick whose mileage you go with? The guy whose okay with the changes as long as there's a change in dialogue to reflect the change, or the guy who wants precise blood loss measurements in thesis statement form to be satisfied. Even finding a happy median is a problem because, who do you pick to serve as the range and how many of them do you actually take into account?

The whole retcon things goes back to choices not matter, which goes mainly into the precieved notion that the consequences of an action did not lead to a different result. But this in it of itself may in fact be a false accusation on the fact that the results of the actions did arrive at different results, just not the results the player wanted. For example, if you killed leiliana, she acknowledges the attempt on her life, but if you didn't, she doesn't. This expression and alteration of feelings towards said person is, in its simplicity, a different result. It acknowledges the players choice and accounts for it in its dialogue, the only problem is that the consequence didn't lead to the result the players expected or wanted.

But if player satisfaction with a choice is the determining factor of a choices value, then what makes this complaint more valid then, say, the players dissatisfied with the harrowmont/bhelen outcome? Both worked in similar ways, presenting a consequence's result in a way the player didn't respect, but the different being the radical nature of the result in how different it was from the other consequence. But this in it of itself raises another question all together of whether big alterations are the only measures of choices mattering, or if choices with smaller but still observable results still count as choices mattering.

And again, mileage may vary, and who or what exactly do we use to determine the golden mean here?

 

I agree with you. But I admit I'm not quite aware exactly what explanation she gives if you did 'kill' her in Origins. I haven't killed her in any of my playthroughs, so I'm mostly going from second hand experiences people have had with their playthroughs. Overwhelmingly people insist there's no 'good explanation' and that it's full fledged retcon of their choices.

 

EDIT: Ugh sorry mods double post. Meant to post it with the previous.

[Icefalcon]

One thing that occurs to me is whether Leilana will have different dialogue depending on what happened to her in Origins. If (As in my case) she was in   a romance with the Warden will there be a mention of her former lover in fond or perhaps "I miss them" terms.

 

Whereas if they tried to kill her over the Ashes, will there be some comment about what a back stabber the Warden really was.

 

I'd like to think she will refer to her former adventures in conversation.

[Ina]

One thing that occurs to me is whether Leilana will have different dialogue depending on what happened to her in Origins. If (As in my case) she was in   a romance with the Warden will there be a mention of her former lover in fond or perhaps "I miss them" terms.

 

Whereas if they tried to kill her over the Ashes, will there be some comment about what a back stabber the Warden really was.

 

I'd like to think she will refer to her former adventures in conversation.

 

I certainly hope so with both Leliana and Morrigan, I'd be pretty upset if they don't mention my warden especially a romanced one. In fact, I'd be surprised if major events/experiences together such as that will go completely unacknowledged. It's an important factor in terms of immersion for returning players and I'm sure Bioware know that a couple of references such as those will go a long way.