129 réponses à ce sujet

[Basher of Glory]

As far as I understood all the posts of that time, it was first and foremost not about HOW it ended.

I personally could live with the worst ending (Liara's thingy).

 

It was about the way, they (the devs) presented the endings.

[Han Shot First]

What I don't udnerstand about this whole debate about the ending is that you simply can't seem to accept that sometimes things don't end the way you want. They end badly, or bittersweet, and well, that's just how it is. Not everything is fairytale, not everyone can be saved.

The whole demanding of a different ending is just beyond me.

 

I think the problems with the original endings of ME3 weren't that they were bittersweet, it was that they were poorly executed. I'd argue that bittersweet was the most appropriate tone for the finale, but that Bioware just failed to write a good bittersweet ending. 

 

The EC resolved enough issues for me for the endings, while not perfect, to at least be palatable. Obviously that isn't the case for everyone, but at some point you just have to move on. Like them or not, the endings are what they are and won't be changing.

[Kenshen]

To bad ME3 is not mod friendly or we could get a better ending.  Yeah I know there is one out there but I have had problems getting it to not crash all the time.

[InWeirdPeril]

That's just the thing. Some can accept the endings as they are, some do not. Some do not understand why some demand different ones. Some do not understand why not more demand it.

 

Psychevore (Hope you don't mind me borrowing you for a quick comparison of opinions) for example does not get the people wanting better endings. I dont get him for settling with what we got.

 

For example, he seems happy with the trilogy as it is. For his own reasons. Or so it sounds at least. Sorry if I am mistaken there.

I am not happy with how things ended because of entirely different reasons (For example, I see them as downers, not bittersweet, poorly executed and written and lacking all the things the games had to offer before that.)

I dont think anyone will really understand the other side. Ever.

 

In the end it comes down to how people deal with it. Moving on is an option for some, for others... not so much. Others will really move on. To different games. And let's not forget those that just don't care about the endings. The only question, in my opinion, is if either side, would actually benefit in any way if the other side will go away. Imagine, Those that are not happy with the game get what they want, but those that don't want that will go away for good. Or vice versa for that matter. That could impact sales and thus pose a problem for future releases.

 

And then there is BW, who just don't seem to care about either side. They do their thing. The question is, how well they do, going that direction.

They can stick to the status quo, release a new revised EC DLC, add one to a possible Remastered Release, add stuff in retrospective to the new Game or do something entirely different. It's all guesswork. But till the release of the new game, luckily everyone can have their own opinion and is allowed to voice their wishes.

And quite frankly, hope for the best and eventually decide what to do. Whatever that may be for them.

[Vazgen]

That's just the thing. Some can accept the endings as they are, some do not. Some do not understand why some demand different ones. Some do not understand why not more demand it.

 

Psychevore (Hope you don't mind me borrowing you for a quick comparison of opinions) for example does not get the people wanting better endings. I dont get him for settling with what we got.

 

For example, he seems happy with the trilogy as it is. For his own reasons. Or so it sounds at least. Sorry if I am mistaken there.

I am not happy with how things ended because of entirely different reasons (For example, I see them as downers, not bittersweet, poorly executed and written and lacking all the things the games had to offer before that.)

I dont think anyone will really understand the other side. Ever.

 

In the end it comes down to how people deal with it. Moving on is an option for some, for others... not so much. Others will really move on. To different games. And let's not forget those that just don't care about the endings.

 

And then there is BW, who just don't seem to care about either side. They do their thing. The question is, how well they do, going that direction.

They can stick to the status quo, release a new revised EC DLC, add one to a possible Remastered Release, add stuff in retrospective to the new Game or do something entirely different. It's all guesswork. But till the release of the new game, luckily everyone can have their own opinion and is allowed to voice their wishes.

And quite frankly, hope for the best and eventually decide what to do. Whatever that may be for them.

I think the best move for BW is to just go with the majority. And I don't think that the majority wants new ending.

[InWeirdPeril]

Would make sense for them sales wise. Will be interesting to see what will become of ME.

 

Personally, I can find the endings utter garbage (no secret there^^) but while I do wish for better ones, I would be willing to accept them as they are, if they would fix some other stuff they had in the new game by going more into the aftermath and giving us some more choices for that (to actually get some bittersweet into them). But like I said, personal opinion and such and I wrote how I will handle things in another post once information becomes available.

[RatThing]

I've read a lot threads about the ending now and how people dislike it, but what really is striking to me is that there's never a consensus about what would be a better alternative. So what would be a better alternative that would actually satisfy everyone? Drew Karpyshyns original dark matter ending, where you have to sacrifice humanity to save the Galaxy? I'd like to see all the MEHEM fans who think the original ending is too harsh react to that. A happy hollywood ending with the hero riding into the sunset with the LI by his/her side? That would disappoint others, including me. I'm not looking for fairy tales. IT? Interesting idea, but you'd still need to write a real ending.

Well, the ending we got is not perfect and I don't like the explanation for the reapers, but ultimately I'm fine with the ending as it is (with EC). There are things far far worse in ME3. I'm fine with it for two reasons. One, it doesn't bull**** me, telling me the Reapers can be defeated with the power of friendship and unity. Victory can't be achieved conventionally and comes with a cost and I'm fine with that, because with the backstory of the Reapers it makes sense. In fact if the Galaxy as we know wouldn't change dramatically after their invasion, THAT would be disappointing.

Two, after the EC I can call bull**** on any of the choices I'm presented with here. I have my choice that works for me. Every other choice I can reject with more or less satisfying dialogue. Letting my Shepard believable take a position is a rarity in the game. Also, no one tries to influence me here for three damn missions to pick the right option and then lets my Shepard look like a closed-minded bigot because I didn't. No one punishes me for my choise (no giant Krogan appears out of nowhere to kill me). One ending is as good as any other here. (Before I'd change the ending I have a loooong list of things I would change first.)

So before I'd agree to spend money for a new ending, I'd want to hear at least one alternative I would like better (and the two points I brought up are not negotiable). I'm sorry, except perhaps IT (like I said, not a real ending), the alternatives I keep reading on forums are NOT better then what we got.

[Vazgen]

 

 

I also agree that the series should have just ended with the Reapers' destruction. That isn't to say that there couldn't be some variations in that ending, only that something like the Dragon Age: Origins finale would have been better and much more easily adapted to a sequel. In DA:O the archdemon always dies and the Blight is always defeated, and player choices instead impact companion character's fates or have some minor (but not completely world-altering) impact on factions.

 

I took a stab awhile back at writing a different ending involving the Crucible.  

 

TLDR warning

 

Short version: Final battle at the Citadel rather than Earth. Suicide Mission. Harbinger replaces the Catalyst at the finale. Boss fight. Crucible causes Widow to collapse and go supernova. Reapers vaporized. The end.

I read through your version and find it quite interesting I think it will be quite hard to implement but I would prefer it to EC. It's a bit dark though, not everyone would've been pleased with that. It also has the problem that any fitting ending to the trilogy has - it is too big. Bioware got themselves into corner with condensing the Reaper war into one game. 

I would love to discuss it in more detail, though I don't know if this thread is the right place for that. 

[InWeirdPeril]

I think a viable alternative is something that ranges from best to worst and the players actions and choices will achieve that. Just as an idea. Allow the player to choose the outcome while the outcome is manipulated through the actions of they player througout the games. I dont know what would be in those endings story wise, but I think many wanted, some still do, a broader range of endings. Killing/Controlling/Merging the reapers is ok enough I suppose, but a broader range of things that happen in/after those endings would be the way to go.

[Vazgen]

I've read a lot threads about the ending now and how people dislike it, but what really is striking to me is that there's never a consensus about what would be a better alternative. So what would be a better alternative that would actually satisfy everyone? Drew Karpyshyns original dark matter ending, where you have to sacrifice humanity to save the Galaxy? I'd like to see all the MEHEM fans who think the original ending is too harsh react to that. A happy hollywood ending with the hero riding into the sunset with the LI by his/her side? That would disappoint others, including me. I'm not looking for fairy tales. IT? Interesting idea, but you'd still need to write a real ending.

Well, the ending we got is not perfect and I don't like the explanation for the reapers, but ultimately I'm fine with the ending as it is (with EC). There are things far far worse in ME3. I'm fine with it for two reasons. One, it doesn't bull**** me, telling me the Reapers can be defeated with the power of friendship and unity. Victory can't be achieved conventionally and comes with a cost and I'm fine with that, because with the backstory of the Reapers it makes sense. In fact if the Galaxy as we know wouldn't change dramatically after their invasion, THAT would be disappointing.

Two, after the EC I can call bull**** on any of the choices I'm presented with here. I have my choice that works for me. Every other choice I can reject with more or less satisfying dialogue. Letting my Shepard believable take a position is a rarity in the game. Also, no one tries to influence me here for three damn missions to pick the right option and then lets my Shepard look like a closed-minded bigot because I didn't. No one punishes me for my choise (no giant Krogan appears out of nowhere to kill me). One ending is as good as any other here. (Before I'd change the ending I have a loooong list of things I would change first.)

So before I'd agree to spend money for a new ending, I'd want to hear at least one alternative I would like better (and the two points I brought up are not negotiable). I'm sorry, except perhaps IT (like I said, not a real ending), the alternatives I keep reading on forums are NOT better then what we got.

Check out this, I've just read this: TLDR warning

I can see how it may be technically impossible to implement, but I see it as superior to EC endings in terms of closure and overall writing.

[Farangbaa]

For example, he seems happy with the trilogy as it is. For his own reasons. Or so it sounds at least. Sorry if I am mistaken there.

And this is the difference between me and the ending haters. I'm perfectly willing to accept you hate the endings, you and the haters though, you can't even fathom that I do like them, putting it into question or even doubting that I love Mass Effect at all. (not you, but I've seen it before)

What I don't get is that 3 years to date, THREE YEARS, you're still not over it. You're still demanding a new ending and whining about it. It's not going to happen.

I wonder how people like you deal with a relationship that ends badly. Do you mope for 3 years? Stalk the girl/boy/man/woman for 3 years demanding another try?

It's just beyond me that 3 years to date, we're still having these discussions. There have been countless games released since ME3, surely you could you have found something else that does do what you want.

[InWeirdPeril]

That's the interesting thing about people. You dont have to understand if you can't. Just accept. Especially when it does not hurt you. The whole point of my post.

And like I said before, if one is that dissapointed, you deal with it. One way or the other.

 

And since I tried to keep the post as none sepecific, with the option of having read things wrong and accepting of your opinion as possible and you now mention "You", "People like you" remarkably often in the context of a statement... I learned a valuable lesson. Talking with people like you is a waste of time as you are more stubborn to defend your own standpoint than most of the people you criticize for wanting something different. They are at least willing to compromise in the long run. Thank you for teaching me that

 

And to use your analogy... I don't know how you handle your relationships either but it seems, people like you don't mind getting dumped at all and happily stay friends with them afterwards. Awesome for you. I on the other hand, believe in workings things out to stay friends. Or, in the best of cases... get back together. But not at any cost. And I don't run off to the next best fling, that shares some of the same qualities, either. Yeah, I am a hopeless romantic that way.

 

In the, not so, immortal words of Cave Johnson... "We're done here"

[RatThing]

Check out this, I've just read this: TLDR warning

I can see how it may be technically impossible to implement, but I see it as superior to EC endings in terms of closure and overall writing.

Sorry but, meh. It mostly just adds more action. I think we'd all like more action but this costs more resources (like development time). It doesn't add a better explanation for the crucible or replaces it with something better and it even takes away choises. The explanation for the reapers is a little better though.

Also, two things. "Does this unit have a soul?" Moment in the ending? No thanks! It was already enough I had to endure it on Rannoch. Let my Shepard answer this and let him/her answer this my way and we can talk about it. One thing I liked about the original ending is that the destroy option was my way to say NO FOR CHRIST SAKE IT DOESN'T!

Also, I like the Idea of another suicide mission but linking the survival of your squadmates and your Shepard to getting aid from all factions? Depends how you get this aid. If you can get Geth and Quarian support by making peace AND by letting the Quarians taking control over the Geth, gladly. With Salarian support as much worth as Krogan support, gladly. The way we have now, no thanks. It'd be just another moment where the writer say "play our way or the game punishes you for that". It's already ridiculous how many squadmates and war points you lose when you play renegade in contrast to paragon.

So in conclusion, if you'd actually have the resources to pull this ending off, maybe the additional amount of action and gameplay would make it better. But the core concept doesn't convince me more than the original one.

One thing I like though is the idea with the Batarian squadmate. That certainly would enrich the game.

[themikefest]

I have no problem with the destroy ending. I don't care  about the other endings.

 

My only thing is no closure. I've posted before that with the breath scene, why not have a slide showing Shepard and LI with their backs to the screen, looking over a field with the sun setting and if Shepard has no LI,  just show Shepard standing by him/herself.

 

With endings that Shepard is dead, have a statue of Shepard wearing his/her armor with the LI standing next to the statue and if no LI, just show the statue by itself. Or instead of a statue, have the grave of Shepard with LI standing over the grave and if no LI just show the grave. With ems below 1750 and destroy is the only option, have it play out the same as seen in the game. Have refuse playout the same as seen in the game.

[Basher of Glory]

@ Psychevore

 

You still insist, to call us "whiners" who are not able to let loose.

 

IMO there is much more behind that what you call "whining". 

 

"Countless games".... tell me about ONE which is comparable to the ME-trilogy. We are not talking about a movie, for which we spend some bucks and  two hours.

 

All the years they advertised the trilogy with keywords like "your decisions count". Is it "whining", when we  - the "whiners" - still discuss this and possible alternatives?

 

A good game is similar to a good book. It has a much longer lifespan than e.g. a FPS and will probably still be discussed in ten years, as there are still threads in the net about other good RPGs of the past, like the Ultima- or the Wizardry-series.

 

If you can't see the point or if you don't like it.... well, move on

[InWeirdPeril]

I have no problem with the destroy ending. I don't care  about the other endings.

 

My only thing is no closure. I've posted before that with the breath scene, why not have a slide showing Shepard and LI with there backs to the screen, looking over a field with the sun setting and if Shepard has no LI,  just show Shepard standing by him/herself.

 

With endings that Shepard is dead, have a statue of Shepard wearing his/her armor with the LI standing next to the statue and if no LI, just show the statue by itself. Or instead of a statue, have the grave of Shepard with LI standing over the grave and if no LI just show the grave. With ems below 1750 and destroy is the only option, have it play out the same as seen in the game. Have refuse playout the same as seen in the game.

 

Amen to that. That is something that would round things out enough for me by now (if changing the endings is no option after all ).

The other characters got their own slides, why not shep and LI. And quite honestly, that would really not kill them to replace the breath scene with a quick slide...

[Farangbaa]

And to use your analogy... I don't know how you handle your relationships either but it seems, people like you don't mind getting dumped at all and happily stay friends with them afterwards.

No. I get a new girlfriend. No point in agonising myself by constantly reminding myself of someone that hurt me.

All the years they advertised the trilogy with keywords like "your decisions count". Is it "whining", when we  - the "whiners" - still discuss this and possible alternatives?

They didn't?

I never saw Wrex again, which had consequences. The Quarians didn't exist anymore. The council was replaced. And so on, and so forth.

Honestly, what did you expect? An ending catered to every single decision you made in the game? Delusional.

[Dale]

Man, you can't believe how nice it is to meet someone on the internet who just says 'sorry, you might be right' for a change.

Kudos to you.

Thanks for bearing with me Psychevore..

 
My boss once said to me "your 3-page research could have been condensed into 3 paragraphs" ... to which I showed him my 20 pages of draft.   Once I spent an entire WEEK (off & on) preparing a 2-page post -- insuring it was accurate and re-reading so as not to offend anyone.   Still didn't matter.   Other times I've spent literally HOURS of research that I thought some might be interested in.    Zero, zylch, squat.   Then I find some insignificant little thing that I debate (with myself) as to whether it's even worth bothering the forum readers -- and it gets an instant 4-5 "likes".

 

I'm confused as a goose flying in a hailstorm...

[Vazgen]

Sorry but, meh. It mostly just adds more action. I think we'd all like more action but this costs more resources (like development time). It doesn't add a better explanation for the crucible or replaces it with something better and it even takes away choises. The explanation for the reapers is a little better though.

Also, two things. "Does this unit have a soul?" Moment in the ending? No thanks! It was already enough I had to endure it on Rannoch. Let my Shepard answer this and let him/her answer this my way and we can talk about it. One thing I liked about the original ending is that the destroy option was my way to say NO FOR CHRIST SAKE IT DOESN'T!

Also, I like the Idea of another suicide mission but linking the survival of your squadmates and your Shepard to getting aid from all factions? Depends how you get this aid. If you can get Geth and Quarian support by making peace AND by letting the Quarians taking control over the Geth, gladly. With Salarian support as much worth as Krogan support, gladly. The way we have now, no thanks. It'd be just another moment where the writer say "play our way or the game punishes you for that". It's already ridiculous how many squadmates and war points you lose when you play renegade in contrast to paragon.

So in conclusion, if you'd actually have the resources to pull this ending off, maybe the additional amount of action and gameplay would make it better. But the core concept doesn't convince me more than the original one.

One thing I like though is the idea with the Batarian squadmate. That certainly would enrich the game.

I agree that it will be almost impossible to pull off and that it can use some work but I still find it better than the star child talk which was completely not needed. And I disagree about having a choice about the end - all three games were about stopping the Reapers or being destroyed, the choices appeared only in the star child scene. I think a destroy ending with different implications based on EMS would've been a better choice to end the game. However, I'd like to point out that I'm quite content with what we have now. I always pick destroy ending and I'm fine with that. Only the star child scene is a little anticlimactic but I can live with that

[Tonymac]

To bad ME3 is not mod friendly or we could get a better ending.  Yeah I know there is one out there but I have had problems getting it to not crash all the time.

 

MEHEM worked flawlessly for me.  Now, the super uber grandiose one does require some skill with programming, but I have the older simpler version.

[RatThing]

I agree that it will be almost impossible to pull off and that it can use some work but I still find it better than the star child talk which was completely not needed. And I disagree about having a choice about the end - all three games were about stopping the Reapers or being destroyed, the choices appeared only in the star child scene. I think a destroy ending with different implications based on EMS would've been a better choice to end the game. However, I'd like to point out that I'm quite content with what we have now. I always pick destroy ending and I'm fine with that. Only the star child scene is a little anticlimactic but I can live with that

I guess that's one problem, the game never prepares you for the choices you have at the end (like it prepares you for the choices in ME1 and ME2 endings). Unlike Cerberus and the counsil, the Reapers role was reduced to solely antagonists and the choices other than destroy came completely out of the blue. Still, even though mostly I also pick destroy, I am glad I have those choises and even more that I can reject them via dialogue. It gives me more opportunity to shape my Shepard and his/her mindset (I really don't see much opportunity for that in the rest of the game). Also you'd need to convince controllers and synthtetics to give up their endings.

As for the star child, I'm probably one of the very very very few people who don't have a problem with kiddo here. It kinda reminds me of Akira. The greatest power ever witnessed embodied as a little kid. It is kinda poetic i think.

[Vazgen]

I guess that's one problem, the game never prepares you for the choices you have at the end (like it prepares you for the choices in ME1 and ME2). Unlike Cerberus and the counsil, the Reapers role was reduced to solely antagonists and the choices other than destroy came completely out of the blue. Still, even though mostly I also pick destroy, I am glad I have those choises and even more that I can reject them via dialogue. It gives me more opportunity to shape my Shepard and his/her mindset (I really don't see much opportunity for that in the rest of the game). Also you'd need to convince controllers and synthtetics to give up their endings.

As for the star child, I'm probably one of the very very very few people who don't have a problem with kiddo here. It kinda reminds me of Akira. The greatest power ever witnessed embodied as a little kid. It is kinda poetic i think.

I never had the problem with the child's appearance. Always thought that the Reapers use the child deliberately, to sway Shepard (if they have at least something from Leviathans they will be able to get that image from Shepard's mind).

You fight them relentlessly, disrupt their plans, kill them and in the end they tell you "It's OK, you can sacrifice yourself to control us (what TIM wanted) or to make synthetics and organics whole (what the Reapers wanted)". I would never trust them enough to do so. For me, Destroy is the only logical option, and I always pick it

[ImaginaryMatter]

I never had the problem with the child's appearance. Always thought that the Reapers use the child deliberately, to sway Shepard (if they have at least something from Leviathans they will be able to get that image from Shepard's mind).

You fight them relentlessly, disrupt their plans, kill them and in the end they tell you "It's OK, you can sacrifice yourself to control us (what TIM wanted) or to make synthetics and organics whole (what the Reapers wanted)". I would never trust them enough to do so. For me, Destroy is the only logical option, and I always pick it

 

How can you not trust them over Synthesis and Control but accept that shooting a fuel line will Destroy the Reapers?

[Farangbaa]

Akira.

oh Akira, breathtaking, beautiful.

Did you know they first voiced the characters, then animated the mouth around the words?

[Vazgen]

How can you not trust them over Synthesis and Control but accept that shooting a fuel line will Destroy the Reapers?

Because they try the hardest to convince you not to pick that option. Every synthetic out there will die, even you are partly synthetic... It also doesn't involve me dying (from their words). And I simply know that I neither want controlling them nor merging people with synthetics