14 réponses à ce sujet

[Inprea]

Something I've been thinking about. When you heal someone exactly what is going on? Are you increasing the rate of metabolic activity so that the cells recover, dived and replace those that can't recover more quickly while still extending the person's stored protean and chemical energy? Like watching an injury recover on time lapse.

 

If you are I wonder if a spell could be developed to cause the cells to multiply without control or in other words a spell that gives people cancer. That or perhaps someone who's starved couldn't be healed as their body simply lacks the raw materials to repair itself.

 

The other alternative I can think of is you're taking the cells and returning them to a more homeostatic state. The only way it seems like this could work though is if you're forming certain materials from nothing. Unless the magic gathers up their spilled blood and severed flesh then puts it back into their bodies.

 

If this is the case though it seems reasonable that a mage could develop so that they don't need to eat or don't need to eat as often as they use magic to sustain their body.

 

It's a shame research and development are rarely part of an computer or console based rpg.

[andar91]

I don't really think this level of thought goes into most magic systems. It's magic; it defies science intentionally.

 

Although, this post does remind me of magic in White Wolf's Mage: The Awakening game. The Life Arcanum could do the things you describe.

[Jester]

Something I've been thinking about. When you heal someone exactly what is going on? Are you increasing the rate of metabolic activity so that the cells recover, dived and replace those that can't recover more quickly while still extending the person's stored protean and chemical energy? Like watching an injury recover on time lapse.

I'd say so. The spell provides energy, and at the same time induces the accelerated multiplication of body's cells. 

 

The other alternative I can think of is you're taking the cells and returning them to a more homeostatic state. The only way it seems like this could work though is if you're forming certain materials from nothing. Unless the magic gathers up their spilled blood and severed flesh then puts it back into their bodies.

 

I think it does create materials (like proteins) out of thin air. I mean, if magic can create ice out of nothing, or conjure a fist made of rocks, why couldn't it create copies of cells present in targeted body?

 

If this is the case though it seems reasonable that a mage could develop so that they don't need to eat or don't need to eat as often as they use magic to sustain their body.

 

Avernus (from Warden's Keep DLC) was able to sustain all needs of his body for more than a century with magic alone. So it's definately possible.

[Gustave Flowbert]

http://dragonage.wik..._(Dragon_Age_II)

 

While the description isn't as in depth as you're interested in, I think it puts Dragon Age direct healing magic more in the camp that the magic itself is repairing your body, not that it encourages your body to heal much faster.

 

Although Regeneration does seem like it either works in tandem with your characters reparative systems or simply does what the direct healing does but over a longer duration.

 

So the Creation school has delved into both types, I guess, ha!

[Inprea]

I don't really think this level of thought goes into most magic systems. It's magic; it defies science intentionally.

 

Although, this post does remind me of magic in White Wolf's Mage: The Awakening game. The Life Arcanum could do the things you describe.

 

That's one thing I love about white wolf, amongst many things, my favorite characters are actually members of the order of the dragon in the Reqium. A group of vampires that research the vampiric condition and seek ways to improve upon themselves. You get to experiment with things for example. A vampire can't get drunk with beer, however if they drink from a drunk human they can become drunk as well. Now a vampire can't use steroids to strengthen their body but what happens if they drink regularly from a human that uses steroids?

 

My GM and I are still working that one out.

 

I wouldn't say magic defies science though. It may defy our current understanding of the world but science is more then just a list of how things work it's a method and thought process. Avernus researched the taint. That's science in my eyes. Granted his trial and error methods were not the type I prefer. I'd much preferred taking samples of their blood and trying to induce a change in it before jumping to an entire person. Well that and working with tainted animals.

 

 

I'd say so. The spell provides energy, and at the same time induces the accelerated multiplication of body's cells. 

 

I think it does create materials (like proteins) out of thin air. I mean, if magic can create ice out of nothing, or conjure a fist made of rocks, why couldn't it create copies of cells present in targeted body?

 

Avernus (from Warden's Keep DLC) was able to sustain all needs of his body for more than a century with magic alone. So it's definately possible.

 

That's a good point about Avernus. I didn't exactly see large storage areas of food. Now for me the difference between stone fist and creation magic is the stone seems to go away after it hits the target. If that protean goes away your wounds open up again. It may be that's simply a graphical issue though and the stone created by magic does indeed continue to exist. If that is the case though what's the difference between creating rock and creating gold?

[Kantr]

Ask David Gaider on tumblr, see what he says about it.

[Navasha]

It summons medi-gel directly to the wounds from an alternate universe.   For how medi-gel completes the healing process, see.. "Alternate Universe Medical Encyclopedia".

[andar91]

I wouldn't say magic defies science though. It may defy our current understanding of the world but science is more then just a list of how things work it's a method and thought process. Avernus researched the taint. That's science in my eyes. Granted his trial and error methods were not the type I prefer. I'd much preferred taking samples of their blood and trying to induce a change in it before jumping to an entire person. Well that and working with tainted animals.

 

I'll amend my first statement and simply say that most people don't bother to think about it that much.

 

I would say that most healing magic works to reverse injuries by directly repairing the damage by generating new cells and tissue. So if you have a gash on your arm and a mage casts a healing spell upon you, lost blood is replenished if necessary, the wound closes itself, and new skin forms to remove the injury entirely. All of that would happen naturally, but it happens in seconds. So the magic is either accelerating the process OR simply transforming/duplicating/altering the current body (which both amount to the same thing).

[Medhia_Nox]

@Inprea:  You would enjoy Shadowrun methinks - it's a tabletop RPG (though it has some pretty neat new CRPGs based on it).

 

Magic spells are explained very well in that game - while leaving "Magic" itself as an esoteric mystery to explore.

 

Their list of healing spells is crazy and covers a great deal of very specific concepts.

[Inprea]

I'll amend my first statement and simply say that most people don't bother to think about it that much.

 

I would say that most healing magic works to reverse injuries by directly repairing the damage by generating new cells and tissue. So if you have a gash on your arm and a mage casts a healing spell upon you, lost blood is replenished if necessary, the wound closes itself, and new skin forms to remove the injury entirely. All of that would happen naturally, but it happens in seconds. So the magic is either accelerating the process OR simply transforming/duplicating/altering the current body (which both amount to the same thing).

 

That's an interesting theory and I like it but I would also worry about scar tissue. They are certain organs that simply don't heal even though a wound may be closed. It's closed with scar tissue. Some people have this happen in their heart. So does healing magic scar or does it do a perfect job of healing? If it heals someone perfectly it seems like it could be used to revert the affects of aging. Avernus supports this as well though apparently it's more of a delaying tactic then restoration however he didn't have access to a good work area either for a good chunk of that time.

 

Then if someone has a scar could healing magic be used to remove it? I know the answers aren't given but I like speculating and thinking on what if.

 

 

@Inprea:  You would enjoy Shadowrun methinks - it's a tabletop RPG (though it has some pretty neat new CRPGs based on it).

 

Magic spells are explained very well in that game - while leaving "Magic" itself as an esoteric mystery to explore.

 

Their list of healing spells is crazy and covers a great deal of very specific concepts.

 

That does sound like fun. Naturally it's also fun to think of ways to use healing to kill as well. For example you use a spell meant to prevent blood clotting from poison on a healthy person. The thing is if you prevent clotting and the person gets cut the danger of bleeding out becomes far greater.

 

Unfortunately getting a group together for a session and convincing them to learn a new system is very difficult. I'm just lucky my friends and I all like white wolf.

[Navasha]

I had a unusual DM back in my table top gaming days and in one of the worlds he created, healing magic transposed the wound on to someone else.   A random someone that the 'patient' had spoken to within the last week.   Made for interesting moral dilemmas at times on whether or not to heal up the party

[realguile]

This game needs to come out like NOW.

[andar91]

That's an interesting theory and I like it but I would also worry about scar tissue. They are certain organs that simply don't heal even though a wound may be closed. It's closed with scar tissue. Some people have this happen in their heart. So does healing magic scar or does it do a perfect job of healing? If it heals someone perfectly it seems like it could be used to revert the affects of aging. Avernus supports this as well though apparently it's more of a delaying tactic then restoration however he didn't have access to a good work area either for a good chunk of that time.

 

Then if someone has a scar could healing magic be used to remove it? I know the answers aren't given but I like speculating and thinking on what if.

 

Truth be told, I rather enjoy the idea of healing spells leaving scars...it's sort of an interesting idea, though not how i normally picture it.

 

This is my interpretation: the basic heal spell doesn't heal injuries for a reason - it's really, really basic and probably more to do with reinvigoration that actual repairing of wounds, especially complex ones. For instance, when the party finds Brother Genitivi in Origins, Wynne sets his leg but warns him that he still needs to rest it for some time or something like that.

 

This indicates that it's relatively easy to cure basic injuries, but not all healing is healing. Mages could not heal Eamon, for example, and he'd been poisoned. I'd imagine a mage in an army could roll up their sleeves and aid somebody that took an arrow through their arm or something, but they couldn't just walk up to somebody with a fever and get rid of it. Probably.

 

This conversation reminds me a bit of the Inheritance series by Christopher Paolini. Eragon first learns to magically heal by saying "Waise Heill" which means "Be Healed"...and he uses it to heal cuts and bruises and stuff like that. But later, when Yoda...I mean Oromis (but basically Yoda) trains him, he studies anatomy and learns far more precise and complex methods of magical healing.

[Inprea]

This conversation reminds me a bit of the Inheritance series by Christopher Paolini. Eragon first learns to magically heal by saying "Waise Heill" which means "Be Healed"...and he uses it to heal cuts and bruises and stuff like that. But later, when Yoda...I mean Oromis (but basically Yoda) trains him, he studies anatomy and learns far more precise and complex methods of magical healing.

 

That makes me think of tales of Vesperia for a different reason though. The party's main healer is extremely powerful in terms of healing. Now she actually heals wounds up but later she meets with a doctor who's using healing magic to. He's amazed by her raw power but has to correct her when she tries to heal a patient with a moderate localized injury. What she's doing is saturating their entire body with healing energy and that can actually be quite harmful. Like over use of antibiotics. He teaches her how to focus her healing magic on a given region and to only use enough to repair the damage.

[NRieh]

Not much, but we've got a quote from 'Asunder' 

Despite the healing magic, it still felt as if her bones were covered in bruises and her lungs fi lled with soot.

Magic can’t do everything, she reminded herself.

According to it Ser Evangeline was still hurt, even after (? Wynne's ?) healing magic. Not sure what  to make out of it, but people who are better at physiology and medicine than I am might figure something. 

 

If I had to 'headcanon' some sort of theory, however, I'd go for something more complex and mystical, like exploiting a connection with the Fade. 

E.g. Fade 'remembers' what real person is like, and an experienced spirit mage can 'restore a backup' with the help of good spirits. But it takes some time to 'fully sync', so a patient might be healed and in no danger, but still feel the pain and\or experience some other ill effects.