88 réponses à ce sujet

[sunnydxmen]

what are you talking about))) Templars and most of all forces of Orlais and Ferelden exept mages cant and never was created to fight with so much deamons..this is even worst than darkspawns because they do not die, now can use all of their potencial and always came back from veil...arrows is sword are useless they will always came back, only magic can stop them

 

blood magic is mostly the only effective and the most cheap way to fight with mass of deamons

 

who the hell can tranquil the person who have so deep connection with fade and kick so many asses by simply open veil in front of them and they all will die or be possesed by deamon...noone can, as with those who are reavers, spirithealers...and as we can understand  tranquility system cant work on those who are grey wardens because of the powers in their blood and connection with somniary dragons

 

as Inquisitor we still can have alliances with heretics and apostages and even our companions can be a Solas-apostage dreamer, Cole-deamon killer(who was use blood magic to hide himself), Bull-Qunari and  Dorian-blood mage ex-Venatory...and Grey Wardens are not saints and use all for victory

 

our Inquisition can have all those who use all forbitten magic and do a forbitten stuff by the Andrastians and Chantry Templars standarts

 

This is a total bullsh*t about we cant represent being as a blood mage...srly we are the guy who can open and close the veil when he wants, this more scary for Andrastians than a dozens of blood mages combine

 

no matter who we play we are mage..even worst than blood mage by the Andrastians standarts..95% of Andrastians do not see anyone who can do what we do

 

why noone will blame us that we open fade and start all of this, cos srly we show people that we open and close fade every time and we are was the only survivor

templarscan also hurt demons they like they do mages  and mages have ways to fight demons aswell  everybody just become a templar heck maybe thats everyone turning to red lyrium.

[aTigerslunch]

Interesting stuff sorta.....    stopped part way on page one to make comments already.  (will catch up soon but wanted to say this)

 

 

 

@Ukki, Yes they will try to destroy a blood mage inquisitor because even a non-blood mage inquisitor has the chance to loose every follower.

 

Actually, they can walk away from the inquisitor.  They would find other ways if they don't agree to the Inquisitor....meaning we can reach an ending with only one person left in the Inquisition. 

 

 

EDIT:  reedit dismissing things

[caradoc2000]

it looks like you could be a freedom loving Mage

You can't - Freedom is not a LI.

[phantomrachie]

You can't - Freedom is not a LI.

 

Dammit it you're right! 

 

Now to create a thread demanding the ability to romance 'Freedom' 

[caradoc2000]

On the other hand, you can be a Justice loving mage in DA2.

[Uccio]

Mages, like non-mages, have weaknesses and limitations. These have been exploited on many occasions, by the Chantry and the Qun.

 

It doesn't matter what adjective you use to describe blood magic. Ultimately, blood magic is perceived negatively in Thedas because it requires bloodshed and it has a controversial history, being linked to the ancient Tevinter magisters and the First Blight. As for comparisons to guns, I point you to domestic American politics (where we are constantly debating the issue).

 

Why would everyone allow the Warden or the Inquisitor to freely use blood magic? Some people aren't aware who these individuals are. Some people probably wouldn't even care. Others would distrust the player's claims. Realistically, the use of blood magic by anyone, including the player, should elicit more than just passive resistance (or ignorance) from everyone.

 

 

David Gaider said that the developers would have had to devote much more content to the blood mage than the other specializations, if it had been included. It seems that they want greater gameplay/story integration, including greater lore-friendliness. A blood mage Inquisitor would alter the story to a significant enough degree that it would require it's own story. Whether or not you choose to believe a statement by the lead writer of the game, it is basically the only relevant piece of information on the topic of blood magic use by the player in Inquisition.

 

My point against the "can´t use blood magic" is pragmatic. Unless pc announce it with a gigantic banner which follows the pc around there is practically close to zero probability of being exposed. And then if pc gets caught the situation could be like in the removed circle of magi quest, fight them all if you can´t control them with blood magic. In the worst case you loose out their support, that is also part of the rpg idea. Take a change and you just might have to play with less cards. And I also do not believe that implementing such options would be so overhelming task for the devs. Unless they have a pre-written ending in their mind where a freedom loving blood mage has no room. That is what I believe. Also the Morrigans comment in the trailer is telling, save the world or destroy it. I bet the saving option required the world to remain as it is, no freedom for the mages and chantry back in the saddle.

 

 

@Ukki, Yes they will try to destroy a blood mage inquisitor because even a non-blood mage inquisitor has the chance to loose every follower.

 

Actually, they can walk away from the inquisitor.  They would find other ways if they don't agree to the Inquisitor....meaning we can reach an ending with only one person left in the Inquisition. 

 

 

Would they now? I don´t believe that. Even templars would understand what it means if no one closes the veil tears. So far we have not heard anyone else capable of doing so. And like I said, how would they know pc being a blood mage? and if they would it would just close one of the factions available. Replace templars with dwarfs then, they don´t mind. Or replace circle mages with freedom loving rebel mages. Problem solved.

 

The combat issue could be more demanding since there is no regen health but then again pc has companions. 

[aTigerslunch]

Possible I have spoilers, that someone may not know about if didn't follow all the information, skip over this then.

 

 

Yes, they would know if your a blood mage less you never ever use blood, then that means your not a blood mage.  Sorry, blood mages are easy to spot just as any other specialized mage is easy to spot.  When those force mages start glowing blue, they become the very first target over a blood mage.  Force mages kill my group faster than a blood mage ever does.

 

And again, YES! They will leave if they don't agree with your inquisitor, they WILL find another way. Dev's words in a video specifically said this.  You CAN go down to just one person left. Arguing against that will not help you as it is a FACT and stated as will happen.  So, yes, again, doesn't matter if you have the veil hand thingie, people will not follow you if they don't like you....hence a Blood mage will not be followed less you mind control most of them before they kill you. Which Cassie would end a blood mage, she WILL have issues if your a mage after the blast.  The Devs also said, if your a mage, you will be their prime suspect on the whole thing. Which is again, blood mage early death less writers can put something in to make the opponents stay quiet somehow.  Lorewise, bloodmage would be killed.

[Uccio]

So why would Inq have to work with templars and chantry puppets if there is another way for them? For what they need this "nobody" Inq then? Why does Inq need to work with Cassandra? The pre-setting is so obvious that it reaks of chantry favoratism. As for spotting a blood mage, if you have knowledge please point me to the part of the lore where it says blood mages are easy to spot. I just can´t believe that implementing blood mage casting a mind control spell in a discussion situation differs from the normal discussion with a action possibility (ala ME). It is just plain bullcrap.

[aTigerslunch]

They don't know if there is, their isn't another solution known, but they will leave the inquisitor if they don't like them, to find an alternative way, which we don't think there is, there may not be. You have a choice as far as your concerns with the Chantry or not and the Herald of Andraste thing or not. It is a choice you will be given.

 

We wont know why Inquisitor ends up working with Cassie till we play the game.

 

Ok.

 

Blood mages have to bleed themselves or someone so that they can cast magic. Robes and staves gives them away too...the smart ones would use a different type of weapon and leather armor instead. To be able to actually pass yourself off as non-mage, wearing leather armor and two daggers would be very helpful. Though casting still will give the mage away regardless. Templars are supposed to be watching out for mages therefore, its a little broken in DA2 when they just stand there when they are supposed to be reacting. Immersion breaking but plot armor requires them to stand by. When they normally wouldn't be.

 

As far as that silly little mage in that Rose in DA2, I already knew she was a mage before I got to the room.  Also, knew it was apostates causing the Templar disappearance, but didn't know they was forcing demons down their throat till was told. I figured they was using them as vessels of blood as resources, mocking the Templar Order in this case. Hawke as part of the story would had to be unknown by it of course.

 

Have to cut short at the moment...will wait on response though.

[AlexiaRevan]

 

The Devs also said, if your a mage, you will be their prime suspect on the whole thing. 

huhuhuh....now I was at 100% wanting the game..now I just hit the million% . Thanx for that Tiger   

[phantomrachie]

 

Would they now? I don´t believe that. Even templars would understand what it means if no one closes the veil tears. So far we have not heard anyone else capable of doing so. And like I said, how would they know pc being a blood mage? and if they would it would just close one of the factions available. Replace templars with dwarfs then, they don´t mind. Or replace circle mages with freedom loving rebel mages. Problem solved.

 

The combat issue could be more demanding since there is no regen health but then again pc has companions. 

 

 

The Templars would leave and try to find another path, if not out right try to kill you.  You are a Blood Mage, which is, in their eyes a known evil, many of them will blame you for Veil Tears and decide that if they kill you everything will got back to normal, that is what happens when a person is faced with an unknown evil, they find the nearest known evil or scapegoat and blame that.

 

I'm not sure what Dwarves think of Blood Magic, you might be right that they don't mind but since they have so little experience of Magic, my guess would be that they'd take the rest of the worlds lead on Blood Magic.

 

As for the rebel Mages, it's made very clear in a Asunder that they too do not approve of Blood Magic, in fact some of them worry about being branded as Blood Mages. It is unlikely that they would join you because they wouldn't want to be branded Blood Mages because that would mean that their rebellion would be dismissed. 

 

So why would Inq have to work with templars and chantry puppets if there is another way for them? For what they need this "nobody" Inq then? Why does Inq need to work with Cassandra? The pre-setting is so obvious that it reaks of chantry favoratism. As for spotting a blood mage, if you have knowledge please point me to the part of the lore where it says blood mages are easy to spot. I just can´t believe that implementing blood mage casting a mind control spell in a discussion situation differs from the normal discussion with a action possibility (ala ME). It is just plain bullcrap.

 

Cassandra founds the Inquisition because she believes that the Chantry is not in a position to help, so the Inquisitor needs to work with Cassandra, so she doesn't kill them when they first meet and to become leader of the Inquisition. It is quite possible that at some stage she'll leave if she doesn't like what you are doing.

 

A Blood Mage casting a mind control spell in the middle of a discussion would be noticeable because they'd have to cut themselves or get Blood from another person to cast the spell.

 

So the conversation would go like this

 

Random Person:       Inquisitor I think you're a Blood Mage

Inquisitor:                  No I'm not

Random Person:       I saw you plunging you're staff into you to cast a spell

Inquisitor:                  No you didn't

Random Person:      Serious I did

Inquisitor:                *cuts self to cast spell* No you didn't

Nearby Person:        Did you just use Blood Magic?

 

DA:O & DA2 kinda got away with this because there was no re-activity to the PCs Specialist ability or Class, even DA:O re-activity to the Warden's race pretty much fell away after Ostagar.

 

BioWare have said that they want people to react to the Inquisitor's Specialization and Class, as well as race, so they can no longer get away with issues that Blood Magic brings and they'd have to spend to much time and money fixing these issues 

 

That being said, I like the lore of Blood Magic, so I'd be all for a spin off game that is all built around the player being a Blood Mage. That way we'd get characters reacting properly to use using it.

[Tragoudistros]

Lore aside, my greatest concern is the lack of combat mechanics. Mind Control is my absolute favorite ability in any game. Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Dragon Age, Dark Souls, and I could literally go on forever.

Now, Mind Control and Life Steal (my second favorite) are both gone.

Some people liked to play as blood mages mainly due to lore, 'being evil', but there were those that primarily liked the skills.

 

Now what, Should I be a Reaver or a Rogue with confusion bombs...?

 

I find that choice entirely regretable considering Enchanter Orsino knew blood magic. Some people can keep secrets. If the world labels you as evil, you might not annouce it.

 

In DA2, I actually refused to use any blood magic when fighting with KM Meredith on my side    in that early colaborative mission. That woman terrified me for all the right reasons lol.

[HaHa365]

Lore aside, my greatest concern is the lack of combat mechanics. Mind Control is my absolute favorite ability in any game. Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Dragon Age, Dark Souls, and I could literally go on forever.

Now, Mind Control and Life Steal (my second favorite) are both gone.

Some people liked to play as blood mages mainly due to lore, 'being evil', but there were those that primarily liked the skills.

 

Now what, Should I be a Reaver or a Rogue with confusion bombs...?

 

I find that choice entirely regretable considering Enchanter Orsino knew blood magic. Some people can keep secrets. If the world labels you as evil, you might not annouce it.

 

In DA2, I actually refused to use any blood magic when fighting with KM Meredith on my side    in that early colaborative mission. That woman terrified me for all the right reasons lol.

Well we are not 100% positive that Mind Control is gone, only that you are not using Blood Magic to control their minds.

[Uccio]

The Templars would leave and try to find another path, if not out right try to kill you.  You are a Blood Mage, which is, in their eyes a known evil, many of them will blame you for Veil Tears and decide that if they kill you everything will got back to normal, that is what happens when a person is faced with an unknown evil, they find the nearest known evil or scapegoat and blame that.

 

I'm not sure what Dwarves think of Blood Magic, you might be right that they don't mind but since they have so little experience of Magic, my guess would be that they'd take the rest of the worlds lead on Blood Magic.

 

As for the rebel Mages, it's made very clear in a Asunder that they too do not approve of Blood Magic, in fact some of them worry about being branded as Blood Mages. It is unlikely that they would join you because they wouldn't want to be branded Blood Mages because that would mean that their rebellion would be dismissed. 

 

 

Cassandra founds the Inquisition because she believes that the Chantry is not in a position to help, so the Inquisitor needs to work with Cassandra, so she doesn't kill them when they first meet and to become leader of the Inquisition. It is quite possible that at some stage she'll leave if she doesn't like what you are doing.

 

A Blood Mage casting a mind control spell in the middle of a discussion would be noticeable because they'd have to cut themselves or get Blood from another person to cast the spell.

 

So the conversation would go like this

 

Random Person:       Inquisitor I think you're a Blood Mage

Inquisitor:                  No I'm not

Random Person:       I saw you plunging you're staff into you to cast a spell

Inquisitor:                  No you didn't

Random Person:      Serious I did

Inquisitor:                *cuts self to cast spell* No you didn't

Nearby Person:        Did you just use Blood Magic?

 

DA:O & DA2 kinda got away with this because there was no re-activity to the PCs Specialist ability or Class, even DA:O re-activity to the Warden's race pretty much fell away after Ostagar.

 

BioWare have said that they want people to react to the Inquisitor's Specialization and Class, as well as race, so they can no longer get away with issues that Blood Magic brings and they'd have to spend to much time and money fixing these issues 

 

That being said, I like the lore of Blood Magic, so I'd be all for a spin off game that is all built around the player being a Blood Mage. That way we'd get characters reacting properly to use using it.

 

 

The way I see it you are stating a lot of assumptions as facts. There is no indication that even a templar can spot a blood mage, if he is not casting any blood magic spells. You do know that blood mage has all the other spells in his disposal too?

Cassandra and templars/chantry being somehow important to the player means there is a strong connection between these things then. Would that not be the case the pc could just Murder Knife cassandra out right when she threatens the player and proceed to work his own inquisition without Cass & Co. Since that doesn´t seem to be the case we can assume that the pre-written storyline and its "choices" are such that a player with blood mage doesn´t fit in. But, it doesn´t make it impossible to have one, lore or story wise. Should the devs want. The player could choose in DAO which factions he took with him to the final battle. Why can´t we do that decision now, is it pre-set?

 

The hypotetical blood mage talk situation you are talking about is actually present in DA2. Hawke & Friends go to interrogate that woman in the brothel and she takes control of the whole group, four people. Can be done and implementing doesn´t differ from normal interaction.

 

Sorry, I don´t buy the claim you are trying to support, simple as that. The game is not going to be such a grand masterpiece that there isn´t going to be any contradictions between story, lore and the gameplay. Claiming that blood magic is not possible to implement because of those reasons is bogus. It might make some situation in the game more demanding but in no way could those not be done.

[Uccio]

They don't know if there is, their isn't another solution known, but they will leave the inquisitor if they don't like them, to find an alternative way, which we don't think there is, there may not be. You have a choice as far as your concerns with the Chantry or not and the Herald of Andraste thing or not. It is a choice you will be given.

We wont know why Inquisitor ends up working with Cassie till we play the game.

Ok.

Blood mages have to bleed themselves or someone so that they can cast magic. Robes and staves gives them away too...the smart ones would use a different type of weapon and leather armor instead. To be able to actually pass yourself off as non-mage, wearing leather armor and two daggers would be very helpful. Though casting still will give the mage away regardless. Templars are supposed to be watching out for mages therefore, its a little broken in DA2 when they just stand there when they are supposed to be reacting. Immersion breaking but plot armor requires them to stand by. When they normally wouldn't be.

As far as that silly little mage in that Rose in DA2, I already knew she was a mage before I got to the room. Also, knew it was apostates causing the Templar disappearance, but didn't know they was forcing demons down their throat till was told. I figured they was using them as vessels of blood as resources, mocking the Templar Order in this case. Hawke as part of the story would had to be unknown by it of course.

Have to cut short at the moment...will wait on response though.

Like I said, so far as as we know there is no other solution. Our pc with his glowing hand is unique. If he wouldn´t be then why would Cassandra need him?

The blood magic in-combat bleeding is just wildly exaggerated. A normal adult has about four to five liters of blood in him. Cutting your wrists and stabbing youself in the belly would kill you faster you could cast spells. A minor cut would do the trick as well as those combat included animations. Besides, if we are really thinking about it why would a blood mage have to cut himself? Doesn´t the spell work through casters skin, is skin a new armor against blood magic?

Casting outside in the public story- and combat wise is simply connected to the Thedas itself. A "normal" mage would also be automatically a target for hatred and suspicion. A blood mage casting in the public can perform just like the regular mage, just don´t do blood magic. And if you do, then you would have to deal with the consequences, simple as that. You alienate some of your possible supporters? Too bad, you just have to work with what you have left. It is supposed to be a rpg after all. Implementing is not the problem here, pre-set story and choices are.

[Shapeshifter777]

I have not seen the skill lines for DAI, but as it was in 1 & 2 if it is not in 3 I will be sorely disappointed.

 

Sounds like you're going to be sorely disappointed.  I am too.  Hopefully the rift mage is pretty darn close.  Maybe like an advanced blood mage.

[aTigerslunch]

Actually, in order to use Blood Magic, someone has to bleed. Sorry, it is a source of power that requires blood to fuel spells to get casted. In other words, blood mage that casts, has to bleed, or bleed someone else. That is obvious to Templars, as they show in the Ferelden Circle.

 

Im unsure how a mage will keep Cassandra from cutting their neck open, but a mage inquisitor will be prime suspect at the start.  It was mentioned positively said. If happen to pull a knife out to cut or bleed to fight Cassie, blood mage would die right there and then.  Cause she will be questioning any mage choice we pick.

 

 

Followers if don't like the inquisitor will walk away, its simple as that. Why do you keep asking the question repeatedly?  They wont care if you got that hand glowie thing. They will try to find another way cause they don't like you.

 

Now, implementing blood magic is definitely more work regardless how going about it. If I was a blood mage, I would have a vial in a pouch with blood, so far, they had blood outside in order to cast spells from blood, except that one in brothel which I think had a source. I knew she was the very first time I walked in, I just know things without looking ahead. Probably why I have no issues with those paraphrasing wheels like quite a few seem to have. In game-wise, Most blood mages are psychotic and stupid and cant think straight though, except one and she was minor (brothel).

 

If think it doesn't, try writing a story on your own.

 

EDIT: was having browser issues and had to cut off a moment to retry.  Technically, using blood, shouldn't require it being bled first which a lot of them seemed need to do. No idea why they couldn't just use it already, but might make sense looking at biology effects, but don't care to get science geeky when its magic. 

[phantomrachie]

The way I see it you are stating a lot of assumptions as facts. There is no indication that even a templar can spot a blood mage, if he is not casting any blood magic spells. You do know that blood mage has all the other spells in his disposal too?

 

I realise that a Blood Mage can cast other spells, but there most powerful spells require blood. I'm not saying that the can spot you on sight but that eventually someone would spot you casting a blood magic spell and tell them.

 

In DA:O & DA2 you cast powerful blood magic spells in front of companions that don't agree with it and random members of the public and everyone is cool with it.

 

Meanwhile in the story you are being asking to hunt down blood mages.

 

 

Cassandra and templars/chantry being somehow important to the player means there is a strong connection between these things then. Would that not be the case the pc could just Murder Knife cassandra out right when she threatens the player and proceed to work his own inquisition without Cass & Co. Since that doesn´t seem to be the case we can assume that the pre-written storyline and its "choices" are such that a player with blood mage doesn´t fit in. But, it doesn´t make it impossible to have one, lore or story wise. Should the devs want. The player could choose in DAO which factions he took with him to the final battle. Why can´t we do that decision now, is it pre-set?

 

Cassandra is important to the story because she founds the Inquisition but there is no indication that you can't drive her off at some stage, but to Murder Knife her right at the start makes no sense, her sword is out your throat, it wouldn't be physically possible and then you'd have to found the Inquisition from scratch without her soldiers.

 

From the information released so far, we don't know if we'll be able to choose sides or not for sure, but from what they've said about Skyhold (there is a tower that could be for Mages or Templars), it looks like you can.

 

Both the Chantry and the Rebel Mages seem to be of equal importance since the game kicks off with their peace conference getting attacked. My guess is we'll get to choose between the both, yes it is just a guess but we're both making guesses here

 

 

 

The hypotetical blood mage talk situation you are talking about is actually present in DA2. Hawke & Friends go to interrogate that woman in the brothel and she takes control of the whole group, four people. Can be done and implementing doesn´t differ from normal interaction.

 

This blood mage was working in secret, in a room, where no one else could see what she was doing, the Inquisitor will be working out in the open, regularly casting spells in front of people and generally having a higher risk of exposure.

 

If a Inquisitor could mind control people like she did, they'd be very overpowered and would be an unbalanced specialisation.

 

 

Sorry, I don´t buy the claim you are trying to support, simple as that. The game is not going to be such a grand masterpiece that there isn´t going to be any contradictions between story, lore and the gameplay. Claiming that blood magic is not possible to implement because of those reasons is bogus. It might make some situation in the game more demanding but in no way could those not be done.

 

I'm not saying that there won't be any contradictions between story, lore and gameplay, but that BioWare are trying to reduce it and that they'd have to spend FAR more time on trying to make a Blood Mage, that people react to, work within the game.

 

It's not that its not possible but that it would require far more work to do then any of the other specialisation.

 

Why should BioWare add a specialization that they'd have to do twice as much work to make re-active, they have a limited amount of time and budget.

 

As I said before, its not that I don't like the specialization, its that I understand how much work is needed to make it have re-activity.

[aTigerslunch]

Blood mages are easy to kill though.     Ooh, a mage, two rogues...  one stuns, both back stab, explosive strike or other feat, another stun, back stab again, with double dagger back attack from both....   usually dead just from stun, backstab, then double strike before even gets the chance to do anything.      Rogues rule! 

[Tragoudistros]

I am not so certain about the story being so difficult to include blood mages. Look at all of the classes. A Reaver, and Assassin, a Necromancer. All of those are ghastly, when you get down to it. Not even crazy reductionistic analysis is needed to imagine how quite a few people would have a problem working with those types.

 

In all honesty, I find the concept of a Necromancer more disturbing than a blood mage. In DA2, imagine if, after Aveline's Husband dies, you resurrect his corpse. "Sorry ma'am, we still need backup".

I was fairly convinced about the "Blood Magic reactivity issue", until phantomrachie mentioned the idea of other specializations taking less work, then I looked at what choices the actually gave us.

 

Now I'm rather curious. I imagine that there is some major story reason for them rejecting blood magic, and I hope it is a good one.

Even some of the writers, and this is in no way meant to sound presumptious, seem to forget that blood magic is a tool, a very dangerous tool. People keep making the assumption that it will be used for the most nefarious deeds. In DA2, it was used for a lot of necromancy...which isn't what I would have used magic for (assuming I lived in that world).

 

My concerrn is more about the gameplay than the actual lore.Blood magic was a tool that gave me access to my favored style of combat. Turn my enemies agaist their allies and cripple my oponents while using their power to supplement my own. Had I the power of mind control, as the Inquisitor, I would not abuse it by targeting my allies, or potential allies. Just like none of the inquisitors will likely use their considerable skills to threaten their allies or potential allies. Basically, why would a blood mage be more evil than anyone else?

 

At the end of the day, is a poisoned dagger in the back so much better than a flaming axe cleaving through someone's skull? Why not a death by blood clot? Can't I be as powerful as a fatty cheeseburger, and a side of black peppered fries with truffle oil??? lol

B

[sunnydxmen]

here is the answer blood mages are not a specialization cause the devs said no too dficult to have people interact like other specializations.

[DaySeeker]

I am not so certain about the story being so difficult to include blood mages. Look at all of the classes. A Reaver, and Assassin, a Necromancer. All of those are ghastly, when you get down to it. Not even crazy reductionistic analysis is needed to imagine how quite a few people would have a problem working with those types.

 

In all honesty, I find the concept of a Necromancer more disturbing than a blood mage. In DA2, imagine if, after Aveline's Husband dies, you resurrect his corpse. "Sorry ma'am, we still need backup".

I was fairly convinced about the "Blood Magic reactivity issue", until phantomrachie mentioned the idea of other specializations taking less work, then I looked at what choices the actually gave us.

 

Now I'm rather curious. I imagine that there is some major story reason for them rejecting blood magic, and I hope it is a good one.

Even some of the writers, and this is in no way meant to sound presumptious, seem to forget that blood magic is a tool, a very dangerous tool. People keep making the assumption that it will be used for the most nefarious deeds. In DA2, it was used for a lot of necromancy...which isn't what I would have used magic for (assuming I lived in that world).

 

My concerrn is more about the gameplay than the actual lore.Blood magic was a tool that gave me access to my favored style of combat. Turn my enemies agaist their allies and cripple my oponents while using their power to supplement my own. Had I the power of mind control, as the Inquisitor, I would not abuse it by targeting my allies, or potential allies. Just like none of the inquisitors will likely use their considerable skills to threaten their allies or potential allies. Basically, why would a blood mage be more evil than anyone else?

 

At the end of the day, is a poisoned dagger in the back so much better than a flaming axe cleaving through someone's skull? Why not a death by blood clot? Can't I be as powerful as a fatty cheeseburger, and a side of black peppered fries with truffle oil??? lol

B

 

You're ignoring important parts of the lore.  Also, it is ludicrous to say that the writers are getting it wrong.  Blood magic isn't just a dangerous tool, it has unforseen consequences, always negative.  Read Last Flight, look at what Merril did to her clan, more undead, more demons, beats turned against them and attacking the clan.  The devs said they were forgoing blood magic in DAI because they couldn't properly implement it.   Blood magic poisons everything it touches, it is not the same as regular magic, which itself is dangerous.  

[phantomrachie]

I am not so certain about the story being so difficult to include blood mages. Look at all of the classes. A Reaver, and Assassin, a Necromancer. All of those are ghastly, when you get down to it. Not even crazy reductionistic analysis is needed to imagine how quite a few people would have a problem working with those types.

 

In all honesty, I find the concept of a Necromancer more disturbing than a blood mage. In DA2, imagine if, after Aveline's Husband dies, you resurrect his corpse. "Sorry ma'am, we still need backup".

I was fairly convinced about the "Blood Magic reactivity issue", until phantomrachie mentioned the idea of other specializations taking less work, then I looked at what choices the actually gave us.

 

Ghastly maybe  but none of those invoke the same fear and hatred that Blood Magic does in Thedas.

 

Assassin's are common throughout Thedas, the Crows are famous and seem to have both positive and negative reactions from people.

 

Necromancers are common in Nevarra and are an important part of their culture. Most Necromancers seem to be only able to raise skeletons & manipulate spirits Quentin seems to be the rare example.

 

Reaver, seem to be a Dragon Cult specialization (at least based on DA:O) and no one apart from the player and the cult in DA:O seem to know what it is.

 

I'm actually very interested in how the player obtains this specialization, is there a Dragon Cult in DA:I?

 

As you pointed out none of these classes are lovey dovey but none of them has the fairly universal hatred of Blood Magic  

[Chibi Elemental]

I am right. Just wait and see.

 

But you still didn´t answer my question. Would all these factions let the world to be destroyed just because the only one person who can close veil tears uses blood magic? I would say no.

 

Special snowflake guarantees that.

 

And human nature disproves you, look at india for example, we have a vacine something that can save lives from polio POLIO a something that has been gone from the US sense well the 60s yet people wont take it because they are convinced it is some evil plox from Merica to mind control them or some other excuse. And blood magic is viewed like Nazis, or terrorist in modern America and Europe. 

 

Look at the red scare in america many actors lost carriers that were promising because of it, and all because of a label of "Ccommunist This game is all about appearances all about gaining trust and loyalty via any means. Being a blood mage would do one of two things make it to easy by just going f you MIND CONTROL at best or b all the factions going the world is doomed might as well kill the bloodmage responsible because people would pin the breach as his fault he has the magic glowy hand and is a Bloodmage so obviously he caused this. Not everyone knows the elder one is responsible that is what your faction uncovers and no one is going to just believe you you have top convince them.

[Tragoudistros]

The question of whether Bloodmagic is evil and Why the inquisitor can't be a Blood Mage are two different questions.
DaySeeker ,I wouldn't call my comment about the writers as ludicrous when seeing as how I'm referencing interview information.
http://www.ausgamers...es/read/3432915
@6:50
http://m.youtube.com...h?v=lhXCpKDqFb8
They allowed us to be blood mages without all of those implicit, by your arguments, necessarily evil consequences.
Not everything is received as intended, though it is nice to see someone defending bioware rather than attacking

I have not read any of the novels, so I can't speak for that, unfortunately. I'll have to take your word on that, and I loathe spoilers, until I read it.
Imagine if it were explained as such:
Direct (and elegant?? lol)

Using blood magic. Sacrificing one's own blood leaves the caster in a weakened state, greatly increasing their vulnerability to demonic possession by spirits attracted to the empowered life blood entering the Fade. Other mages turn to sacrifices, taking the lives of others to muster the power to cast their spells. In all cases, blood magic runs ever closer to catastrophe from unfettered power.
Wouldn't that have been nice and clear?
Addendum (potential codex entry pt2?)

'In the distant past, powerful blood rituals were cast through communal sacrifice. Mages gathered, and each making a small gift of her or his own blood. Such rituals may have unleashed some of the greatest of magics hinted at in long forgotten legends.'

Why this little addendum? It can be a nod to the ambiguity of magic. That's a safer means of performing blood magic, sure, but what rituals were used? Protection or destruction?


The writers have proven their ability to handle complex issues with the whole Templars vs Circle/Apostates, as one good example. I fondly remember the first major convo with Meredith. I (my character) was an apostate blood mage, (and all around nice guy ), yet Meredith spoke in a very reasonable and convincing manner. I could see and understand her position, despite the horrid conditions she advocated. What if Meredith were less harsh with her means and mages weren't pushed to desperation?
Great writing makes you think.
I think Merrill is a fascinating case. Unintended consequences. If one is ignorant of how to use a tool and causes harm, is the tool to blame or the ignorant?
"Blood Magic Poisons everything it touches." I haven't seen that happen.
What I have seen is Bloodmagic being dangerous due to Merrill's ignorance, or desperation: by many DA2 mages, like Orsino (a tragic and unpleasant example I'll never forget that hand on Orsion's cheek! Beautiful! ), raw ambition: a number of powerful blood mages, ect.
I wouldn't argue against "bloodmagic is different", but simply stating that it IS evil is so dogmatic that it takes away from more legitimate explanations that exist in the game, Which everyone can agree on, that examples actually do exist in some capacity.


Is everything evil also dangerous? (honestly, idk... it certainly isn't helpful/good...) Is everything dangerous evil? I would say no.

A quote I love "The greater the gift, the more tenuous the balance between benevolence and malevolence." -Tannarive Due (The Living Blood" serious irony in that title lol

Back to Devs and reactivity: Perception is an entirely legitimate concern. It's illogical to assume that a Blood Mage automatically uses mind control on any and every person in the same manner that an Assassin shouldn't be assumed to be willing to assassinate any who disagree with the Inquisition. In the scenes, the mind control wasn't undetectable, and it wasn't permanent. The victims were somewhat hazy. Additionally, the spell can be dispelled.
How many know those details? Not many, I'm sure.
to address my Assassin vs Blood Mage comment, people might be suspicious of an Assassin, but alive is alive. Mind control, like accusations of Communism, thank you Chibi Elemental, cannot be proven one way or the other.
The leader of the Inquisition with the ability to control minds is a problematic issue for followers and allies. Blood Magic IS Evil isn't a strong argument. Blood Magic is Seen as evil is a better argument.
Feedback and suggestions should be helpful for the devs, afterall.

The question of: Is Bloodmagic evil isn't well set from my experience, but I'll take a look at Last Flight, as I'm a voracious reader (and clearly talkative ) .

I feel somewhat better about the lore issue and why Bloodmagic is being abandoned :'|. Also, seeing descriptions of the Necromancer specialization makes me happy to see no mention of raising corpses, which would be harder to swallow as morally superior to blood magic (not a universal concern, but I would likely not be alone in my surprise) as the Inquisitor isn't from Nevarra, and most other characters are not either. I look forward to seeing how that's implemented.

My only sorrow is over the lost mechanics of Mind Control/Confusion and Drain Life. Maybe they'll appear in game? *hopes desperately...*