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[DaySeeker]

The question of whether Bloodmagic is evil and Why the inquisitor can't be a Blood Mage are two different questions.
DaySeeker ,I wouldn't call my comment about the writers as ludicrous when seeing as how I'm referencing interview information.
http://www.ausgamers...es/read/3432915
@6:50
http://m.youtube.com...h?v=lhXCpKDqFb8
They allowed us to be blood mages without all of those implicit, by your arguments, necessarily evil consequences.
Not everything is received as intended, though it is nice to see someone defending bioware rather than attacking

I have not read any of the novels, so I can't speak for that, unfortunately. I'll have to take your word on that, and I loathe spoilers, until I read it.
Imagine if it were explained as such:
Direct (and elegant?? lol)

Using blood magic. Sacrificing one's own blood leaves the caster in a weakened state, greatly increasing their vulnerability to demonic possession by spirits attracted to the empowered life blood entering the Fade. Other mages turn to sacrifices, taking the lives of others to muster the power to cast their spells. In all cases, blood magic runs ever closer to catastrophe from unfettered power.
Wouldn't that have been nice and clear?
Addendum (potential codex entry pt2?)

'In the distant past, powerful blood rituals were cast through communal sacrifice. Mages gathered, and each making a small gift of her or his own blood. Such rituals may have unleashed some of the greatest of magics hinted at in long forgotten legends.'

Why this little addendum? It can be a nod to the ambiguity of magic. That's a safer means of performing blood magic, sure, but what rituals were used? Protection or destruction?


The writers have proven their ability to handle complex issues with the whole Templars vs Circle/Apostates, as one good example. I fondly remember the first major convo with Meredith. I (my character) was an apostate blood mage, (and all around nice guy ), yet Meredith spoke in a very reasonable and convincing manner. I could see and understand her position, despite the horrid conditions she advocated. What if Meredith were less harsh with her means and mages weren't pushed to desperation?
Great writing makes you think.
I think Merrill is a fascinating case. Unintended consequences. If one is ignorant of how to use a tool and causes harm, is the tool to blame or the ignorant?
"Blood Magic Poisons everything it touches." I haven't seen that happen.
What I have seen is Bloodmagic being dangerous due to Merrill's ignorance, or desperation: by many DA2 mages, like Orsino (a tragic and unpleasant example I'll never forget that hand on Orsion's cheek! Beautiful! ), raw ambition: a number of powerful blood mages, ect.
I wouldn't argue against "bloodmagic is different", but simply stating that it IS evil is so dogmatic that it takes away from more legitimate explanations that exist in the game, Which everyone can agree on, that examples actually do exist in some capacity.


Is everything evil also dangerous? (honestly, idk... it certainly isn't helpful/good...) Is everything dangerous evil? I would say no.

A quote I love "The greater the gift, the more tenuous the balance between benevolence and malevolence." -Tannarive Due (The Living Blood" serious irony in that title lol

Back to Devs and reactivity: Perception is an entirely legitimate concern. It's illogical to assume that a Blood Mage automatically uses mind control on any and every person in the same manner that an Assassin shouldn't be assumed to be willing to assassinate any who disagree with the Inquisition. In the scenes, the mind control wasn't undetectable, and it wasn't permanent. The victims were somewhat hazy. Additionally, the spell can be dispelled.
How many know those details? Not many, I'm sure.
to address my Assassin vs Blood Mage comment, people might be suspicious of an Assassin, but alive is alive. Mind control, like accusations of Communism, thank you Chibi Elemental, cannot be proven one way or the other.
The leader of the Inquisition with the ability to control minds is a problematic issue for followers and allies. Blood Magic IS Evil isn't a strong argument. Blood Magic is Seen as evil is a better argument.
Feedback and suggestions should be helpful for the devs, afterall.

The question of: Is Bloodmagic evil isn't well set from my experience, but I'll take a look at Last Flight, as I'm a voracious reader (and clearly talkative ) .

I feel somewhat better about the lore issue and why Bloodmagic is being abandoned :'|. Also, seeing descriptions of the Necromancer specialization makes me happy to see no mention of raising corpses, which would be harder to swallow as morally superior to blood magic (not a universal concern, but I would likely not be alone in my surprise) as the Inquisitor isn't from Nevarra, and most other characters are not either. I look forward to seeing how that's implemented.

My only sorrow is over the lost mechanics of Mind Control/Confusion and Drain Life. Maybe they'll appear in game? *hopes desperately...*

If everyone is ignorant on how the tool works it is arrogance to believe that one has control over it.  If it is the nature of blood magic to corrupt what it touches then, yes, it would obviously be evil.  It sounds like part of the reason there is no blood magic this time around is that putting consequences in game would be more resources than would be merited.  Blood magic could be the reason why there are blights, why darkspawn even exist.  I'm not sure I understand your Meredith point, if you're speaking from a role-playing standpoint why one would turn to blood magic given those circumstances I get it, but if you are equating blood magic to Meredith's actions then it doesn't jive.  Blood magic is the evil genie who perverts your wish and works to her own agenda, or the poisin gas that spreads invisibly. 

[Uccio]

You're ignoring important parts of the lore.  Also, it is ludicrous to say that the writers are getting it wrong.  Blood magic isn't just a dangerous tool, it has unforseen consequences, always negative.  Read Last Flight, look at what Merril did to her clan, more undead, more demons, beats turned against them and attacking the clan.  The devs said they were forgoing blood magic in DAI because they couldn't properly implement it.   Blood magic poisons everything it touches, it is not the same as regular magic, which itself is dangerous.

Tevinter Imperium says hi.

[Super Drone]

Tevinter Imperium says hi.

 

You may not have been able to understand what they were saying though. They were choking on the blood of thousands of innocents enslaved ot the will of an arrogant, power-mad few. You know, the type that could be and probably are wholly corrupted by Blood Magic already, but it's hard to tell because their culture is already ruthlessly built upon a system of predator and prey.

[Uccio]

Yes there is inbuild ruthness in Tevinter Imperium, however so is in any Thedasian culture. Assassinations, conquests, blatant rasism and stomping on minorities.. Nobles ruhlessly abusing peasant, raping young elven bribes etc. Destroying each other for land and position. Obviously Tevinter sacrifices are extreme but with our perspective all of Thedasian cultures are 'evil'. I was pointing out the idea of blood magic being so destructive that one would eventually perish for using it. That is obviously not the case with the empire. It is the longest lasting culture on the continent.

[Gallan]

Blood magic doesn't really corrupt you. At least no more so than having any kind of power does. It's just like the Force, the Darkside isn't part of the force it's part of the person wielding it.

 

Blood magic's greatest "evil" is in that the greater the agony of the one who is giving the blood the more potent that is, However those "evil" seems to lie not in the magic itself but with the spirits with which you are using the blood the deal with (i.e. demons). So it is entirely possible to have a Blood mage that does no evil what so ever.

 

Sadly most who would dabble in do so from a position of weakness and desperation rather than strength and intent. It is this that leads to it being outlawed, not because of inherent "evil," but rather of the risks involved.

 

That's how it seems to be intended to me at least.

[Super Drone]

Yes there is inbuild ruthness in Tevinter Imperium, however so is in any Thedasian culture. Assassinations, conquests, blatant rasism and stomping on minorities.. Nobles ruhlessly abusing peasant, raping young elven bribes etc. Destroying each other for land and position. Obviously Tevinter sacrifices are extreme but with our perspective all of Thedasian cultures are 'evil'. I was pointing out the idea of blood magic being so destructive that one would eventually perish for using it. That is obviously not the case with the empire. It is the longest lasting culture on the continent.

 

I don't think the devs ever implied Blood Magic kills the user. Only that it corrupts them and through them spreads misery to everyone around them.

 

Like, I dunno, The magisters of the Tevinter Imperium or something.

[Tragoudistros]

DaySeeker, you misunderstood each of my points...

In the interview, Gaider states that the Chantry's blood phylactories are blood magic, as is the Grey Warden ritual.
please take a look at the interview link and not just for the sake of my argument. It's actually quite interesting.

We know the Old Gods/Archdemons are what causes Blights. DA Awakening explained that one to us.
The existence of Darkspawn could be connected. That's an unknown, so it doesn't really support either of our positions.


I brought up Meredith solely because you accused me of disparaging the writers. I was demonstrating my appreciation of their talents in relation to complex moral issues


Gaider brings up examples of blood magic that are relatively benign. I agree with his position of it not being black and white.


"If everyone is ignorant on how the tool works it is arrogance to believe that one has control over it.  "
I'm a little confused. That statement makes sense, on its own.
Are you saying that everyone is ignorant of the effects of bloodmagic? That all bloodmagic is inherently uncontrollable?
To clarify, I'd ask: do you believe that Bloodmagic can ever be safely used, or used for non evil purposes? Basically, would a knowledgeable user of bloodmagic not be arrogant because (s)he understands the cause and effect of bloodmagic?
I'm a little curious about what you mean.

[Tragoudistros]

As far as corruption goes, it's important to look at the difference in what it means to be corrupted.

I think we can safely say Red Lyrium corruped Varric's brother and Meredith. Red Lyrium makes people Crazy (with the capital C, yes, lol)

Blood Magic, doesn't seem to directly change the user. Good examples: Grey Warden joining ritual, and Blood Phylactories.
how Bloodmagic is used and under what context and what purpose seems to make the difference between good and evil... well not evil and evil
Witth that in mind, I wouldn't argue that Bloodmagic actually corrupts because we can see real corruption through Red Lyrium.

[TheEternalStudent]

As far as corruption goes, it's important to look at the difference in what it means to be corrupted.

I think we can safely say Red Lyrium corruped Varric's brother and Meredith. Red Lyrium makes people Crazy (with the capital C, yes, lol)

Blood Magic, doesn't seem to directly change the user. Good examples: Grey Warden joining ritual, and Blood Phylactories.
how Bloodmagic is used and under what context and what purpose seems to make the difference between good and evil... well not evil and evil
Witth that in mind, I wouldn't argue that Bloodmagic actually corrupts because we can see real corruption through Red Lyrium.

While I agree Blood Magic doesn't de facto corrupt the user, the Grey warden ritual corrupts, giving Wardens the taint.

[Uccio]

I don't think the devs ever implied Blood Magic kills the user. Only that it corrupts them and through them spreads misery to everyone around them.

 

Like, I dunno, The magisters of the Tevinter Imperium or something.

 

 

Tevinter Imperium is still hardly Mordor. There is brutality yes, but there is still "normal" life too. State wouldn´t function otherwise. The amount of the blood magic influence, even present in large numbers because of some corrupted magisters, does not corrupt so much that it would prevent the society from functioning. And it hasn´t done so far through out the history. Thefore blood magic is not as bad as it has been set out to be. The over emphazation of blood magics evilness kind of looses it point with Tevinter.

[sandalisthemaker]

Blood magic is not present because in order to do it justice without massive story/gameplay segregation and show how dangerous it is, it would require a large amount of reactivity from NPCs and companions- to the point where it would overshadow the other specializations. Dedicating all of that extra content for 1 specialization doesn't seem practical. Plus, bloodmage just doesn't seem to fit well with the Inquisitor, the head of troops that are largely Chantry-based, and whom are prone to calling him/her the herald of Andraste.  

 

I never expected bloodmage to be a good fit with the story. 

[Gallan]

I feel i should point out, Blood magic is still "illegal" in the Tevinter Imperium. Many of the more powerful Magisters will use it, but they cannot not do so openly as the other (also likely Blood magic using ones) will use that to bring them down. Now, this is not to say all Tevinter Magisters (or other politically and magically potent mages) use Blood magic, or even want to. However, many will if only to keep them selves alive, at which point the start down a dark road.

[DaySeeker]

DaySeeker, you misunderstood each of my points...

In the interview, Gaider states that the Chantry's blood phylactories are blood magic, as is the Grey Warden ritual.
please take a look at the interview link and not just for the sake of my argument. It's actually quite interesting.

We know the Old Gods/Archdemons are what causes Blights. DA Awakening explained that one to us.
The existence of Darkspawn could be connected. That's an unknown, so it doesn't really support either of our positions.


I brought up Meredith solely because you accused me of disparaging the writers. I was demonstrating my appreciation of their talents in relation to complex moral issues


Gaider brings up examples of blood magic that are relatively benign. I agree with his position of it not being black and white.


"If everyone is ignorant on how the tool works it is arrogance to believe that one has control over it.  "
I'm a little confused. That statement makes sense, on its own.
Are you saying that everyone is ignorant of the effects of bloodmagic? That all bloodmagic is inherently uncontrollable?
To clarify, I'd ask: do you believe that Bloodmagic can ever be safely used, or used for non evil purposes? Basically, would a knowledgeable user of bloodmagic not be arrogant because (s)he understands the cause and effect of bloodmagic?
I'm a little curious about what you mean.

 

We can not know the effects of blood magic.  Many seem to focus only on the caster and the one it is cast upon, but apparently there are effects outside of that.  I am also unsure of how it can be argued how the gray warden ritual hurt no one, wardens seem to not be very comfortable after the ritual that kills many and those it doesn't kill immediately are corrupted and go to their callings before they become darkspawn.

[RevyTwoHands1987]

I loved playing as a blood mage  and arcane warrior spec.